Breaking: US Navy destroyer takes on water after collision off Japanese coast

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

It appears that armaps tracks are correct for time and position. That new track i found seems to be in error. It shows the collision too far north, I believe.

Most of those turns seem to be after.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
So ACX Crystal did turn before the collision (as I had previously stated).

If the collision was at the time stated. Do we know where that time of collision came from? As far as I understand it, the Navy uses UTC, right?

In fact, it looks like it made (3) significant turns in the hour preceding the collision (i.e. a 90 degree turn to the SE, another 90 degree turn back to the ENE and then a 180 degree turn to the WSW).

Do we know in which direction the USS Fitzgerald was going? We know that both ships were more or less going in the same direction, so that would help clear this situation.

a reply to: ArMaP

The 0220 time came from when the radio call for assistance was made to the Coast Guard as I understand it. The call came from the container ship from what I read. The Fitz lost her radio when the radio room flooded. They would have only had hand held radios, along with non radio signals IIRC.

Fair winds and following seas, Brothers and Sisters!

Every time we held a pre-port briefing, we always ended with a prayer...

"May the Lord God protect us from the vagaries of merchantmen!" You never knew what one was going to do, but you knew you wouldn't expect it. We would cringe when ever a merchie got with in a mile of us.

That being said, there were plenty of times an OOD made a stupid call that needed to be challenged as well. That's why there are more than one person on the bridge.

USS Fitzgerald (DDG 62) was involved in a collision with a merchant vessel at approximately 2:30 a.m. local time, June 17, while operating about 56 nautical miles southwest of Yokosuka, Japan.

navy.mil

Local time which is UTC+9.

www.linkedin.com...

law ? big container ship lookout sees destroyer and says they will move .
or big container ship sees tehm and turns ovesly laws did not help the container ship avoid this .
I was captian seeing another ship i would alest try to turn law or no law

a reply to: Zaphod58

That's interesting, I didn't notice the second change in direction.

That change in direction looks more than a change in direction, as it shows the ACX Crystal apparently stopped at 21:56 UTC...

(click for full size)

... started moving backwards, at a speed starting around 1.3 knots and stopping again at 01:10 UTC...

(click for full size)

... and then returned to its route to Tokyo.

But this was clearly after the collision.

originally posted by: Montana
Fair winds and following seas, Brothers and Sisters!

Every time we held a pre-port briefing, we always ended with a prayer...

"May the Lord God protect us from the vagaries of merchantmen!" You never knew what one was going to do, but you knew you wouldn't expect it. We would cringe when ever a merchie got with in a mile of us.

That being said, there were plenty of times an OOD made a stupid call that needed to be challenged as well. That's why there are more than one person on the bridge.

As OOD, we had a standing order to call the CO to the bridge whenever we were intersecting another track within 10 miles of our track in the open ocean. Near a port, we were at special sea and anchor detail and a deck officer was on each wing of the bridge. Lookouts were stationed fore and aft. CIC [radar] was fully manned. Everyone was expecting the whimsical seamanship and corner cutting that merchants were noted for.
On the open ocean, merchants were famous for running on "iron Mike" [maritime auto-pilot] at night, so if we were privileged vessel, it was especially tense as the rules would only allow the privileged vessel to maneuver when "in extremis". For the non-sailors, that means at the last moment when a collision can still be avoided. The privileged vessel is permitted to attract the attention of the burdened vessel if it appears that it is ignoring the intersect. Radio, lights, flares, etc. are considered legitimate ways of attracting attention. My CO at the time wanted to get their attention with a 5"gun or a torpedo or two but that would have officially been frowned on by the Navy.
Only once, when transiting the Atlantic near the Azores, did I have an SBDR [steady bearing decreasing range = collision course] merchant ship when we were privileged vessel. I sent the BMOW to the captain's sea cabin [just behind the bridge] and the CO immediately took command. [There is a formal script for this. The Captain announces, loud and clear, to the bridge "This is the captain, I have the conn." The OOD says, "this is Mr. ______, the captain has the conn" and then steps back out of the way. The crew then knows who is giving orders.]
The CO then rang general quarters, cleared the forward section of the ship of all personnel, and had damage control teams one and two standing by for collision. Engineering was standing by for emergency maneuvering and an "all back emergency" command. Watertight doors were shut and dogged and all hands were warned of the possibility of violent maneuvers and collision. At that point we were still moving at about 18 knots and were legally bound to maintain course and speed. The next thing we did was turn on our search lights and aim them at the merchant. At 5 miles, we got his attention and he speeded up such that his relative motion would allow us to pass to his stern. We were on standby for emergency maneuvering until we were well past his track.

My sentiments are that this collision was due to some erratic maneuver by the merchant vessel.

originally posted by: [post=22366602]ArMaP
Do we know in which direction the USS Fitzgerald was going? We know that both ships were more or less going in the same direction, so that would help clear this situation.

Doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make was the container ship ACX Crystal made 'several' significant course corrections before the collision. And, to cite a "lifer" Navy buddy of mine (MCPO), just today....

FOX News had a retired "Captain" (not Commander, or Lt, but Captain) on yesterday who said the computer record shows the merchant made erratic course and speed changes prior to the collision. Probably enough for the merchant to forfeit his right of way. The merchant had an obligation to maintain course and speed.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking a MCPO probably knows more about everything on a boat than the commander himself.

Granted, he cited a Fox news report, but in his mind it seemed credible...and I'm going with a Master Chief over virtually everything else!

The Navy released the names of the victims:

-Dakota Kyle Rigsby, 19, from Palmyra, Virginia (Gunner's Mate Seaman)

-Alexander Douglass, 25, from San Diego, California (Yeoman 3rd Class Shingo)

-Ngoc T. Truong Huynh, 25, from Oakville, Connecticut (Sonar Technician, 3rd Class)

-Noe Hernandez, 26, from Weslaco, Texas (Gunner's Mate, 2nd Class)

-Carlosvictor Ganzon Sibayan, 23, from Chula Vista, California (Fire Controlman, 2nd Class)

-Xavier Alec Martin, 24, from Halethorpe, Maryland (Personnel Specialist, 1st Class)

-Gary Leo Rehm Jr., 37, from Elyria, Ohio (Fire Controlman, 1st Class)

www.wxyz.com...

a reply to: Zaphod58

Very sad indeed.

Best regards and God's speed to the families of these sailors lost.

They probably didn't know what hit them.

Sad indeed.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Doesn't matter. The point I was trying to make was the container ship ACX Crystal made 'several' significant course corrections before the collision. And, to cite a "lifer" Navy buddy of mine (MCPO), just today....

Well, the point I am trying to make is that we don't know who said the collision happened at 2:30 local time and that that time doesn't agree with the data available for ACX Crystal.

If the time is wrong then the course corrections were made after.

a reply to: jafo1973

Leave us Aussie's alone otherwise well start sending you vegemite covered dropbears to terrorise your citizens.

If that doesn't work we'll just take back Pine Gap and shut down your essential communications and logistics capabilities.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
Doesn't matter.

It does matter, if both ships were moving from west to east then the collision couldn't have been at 2:30 local time, as the ACX Crystal was moving from east to west at the time.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

originally posted by: [post=22366602]ArMaP
Do we know in which direction the USS Fitzgerald was going? We know that both ships were more or less going in the same direction, so that would help clear this situation.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking a MCPO probably knows more about everything on a boat than the commander himself.

You are wrong, in general. Navy petty officers have "Ratings" which are career field designators. How much a MCPO knows about the operation of a ship [only small craft and submarines are called "boats"] depends on his rating. If he is in the aviation field than he knows about aircraft. If he is a quartermaster, then he knows about the rules of the road, navigation, and piloting. If you look at the ratings, en.wikipedia.org... you will see many that have little to do with command or operation of a ship.

a reply to: LightAssassinnow you had to bring dropbears into it time to clone a couple of hundered thylacines and drop them in country mam dat wasn't a dingo that ate your baby never said it vwas it had stripes. just kidding and for the record years later it was found that dingos did eat that poor ladies baby. Australia a land of wondrous and deadly beauty and be careful the animals can be deadly too.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: ArMaP

Cargo ships have a schedule. Why did the ship head for port then turn and go back out into more open water.

Tugs have to be scheduled and the cargo ship had to have docking time.

If the cargo ship was ahead of schedule they may have had hold off port till everything was ready.

originally posted by: pteridine

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk

originally posted by: [post=22366602]ArMaP
Do we know in which direction the USS Fitzgerald was going? We know that both ships were more or less going in the same direction, so that would help clear this situation.

I could be wrong, but I'm thinking a MCPO probably knows more about everything on a boat than the commander himself.

You are wrong, in general. Navy petty officers have "Ratings" which are career field designators. How much a MCPO knows about the operation of a ship [only small craft and submarines are called "boats"] depends on his rating. If he is in the aviation field than he knows about aircraft. If he is a quartermaster, then he knows about the rules of the road, navigation, and piloting. If you look at the ratings, en.wikipedia.org... you will see many that have little to do with command or operation of a ship.

depends on the ship.
i was on a tank landing craft YFU 39 that had a Chief Boatswains Mate in command.

On the Navy minesweep i was on USS Enhance we had a Senior Chief electricians mate that stood underway OOD watch.
He had been a craft master in vietnam and when the minesweep had been recommisioned we only had two officers with the training to be OOD so the chief had to filled in as a OOD till the oficers were trained and was good enough that he stayed on as a OOD as needed.
At sea, the officer of the deck is stationed on the bridge and is in charge of navigation and safety of the ship, unless relieved by the captain or a senior qualified line officer. The officer of the deck is assisted by the junior officer of the deck, who is in the process of qualifying as full officer of the deck, and the conning officer, who is also training to become an OOD, but is directly responsible for the maneuvering of the ship. The following positions also assist the officer of the deck on the bridge: boatswain's mate of the watch (BMOW), quartermaster of the watch (QMOW), and signalman of the watch (SMOW).

originally posted by: LightAssassin
a reply to: jafo1973

Leave us Aussie's alone otherwise well start sending you vegemite covered dropbears to terrorise your citizens.

If that doesn't work we'll just take back Pine Gap and shut down your essential communications and logistics capabilities.

Can you drop shrimp instead nothing like shrimp on the barbie. And in total seriousness I've been to Australia three times its an amazing place and the people are great. Still amazes me though just how dangerous it is our guide gave us an hour lecture on all the stuff that could kill us lol