Loud Bangs heard in Manchester UK

a reply to: grainofsand

grainofsand, if you looked at my post and saw me apologise for terrorism, then you clearly cannot read worth a damn. Either get better at it, or get a new hobby.

If you are determined to swallow every bait the trappers put before your mouth, resolved to stumble through every single tripwire, accept every red herring in a matter, rather than look at the deeper cause and effect which defines and shapes the way of things, then by all means, carry on. But do not have the indecency to consider your choice either valid, nor intelligent. It is neither.

originally posted by: ARM1968

originally posted by: 23432

originally posted by: ARM1968
Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

This is out of context .

Then put it in context for us. That would be helpful.

ok

Jihad - Often described as Holy war however the actual meaning is simply to struggle and can be used for a lot of different areas.

Suicide - Quran forbids suicide / suicide bombers - verses 21: 107, 34: 28, 17: 105, and 25: 56

Murder - Murder of a person, which all are created by God, is forbidden - Qur’an 6:151. The ten commandments are actually distorted on this topic as its often said "Thou shall not kill". The correct translation is "Thou shall not murder". All religions / their texts make killing in some circumstances acceptable.

Conversion to Islam - The Quran forbids forced conversion of non Muslims to Muslim - The Cow, 2:256. Conversion must be voluntary. Anything less is forbidden.

Warfare - The Quran forbids aggressive warfare. If the enemy desires peace then so shall Muslims. If the enemy attacks Muslims then Muslims may respond but Islam can never be the aggressor - The Cow,” 2:190, 8:61

Killing non combatants / civilians - Forbidden.

The killing of innocent non-combatants is forbidden. According to Sunni tradition, ‘Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, the first Caliph, gave these instructions to his armies: “I instruct you in ten matters: Do not kill women, children, the old, or the infirm; do not cut down fruit-bearing trees; do not destroy any town . . . ” (Malik’s Muwatta’, “Kitab al-Jihad.”)

Terrorism (hirabah) - Forbidden by Islamic law / Quran - Surah al-Ma’ida 5:33–34 -

brigandage, highway robbery and extortion rackets– any illicit use of fear and coercion in public spaces for money or power.

Justice -

The Qur’an demands of believers that they exercise justice toward people even where they have reason to be angry with them: “And do not let the hatred of a people prevent you from being just. Be just; that is nearer to righteousness.”[5:8]

Christians / Jews -

The Qur’an assures Christians and Jews of paradise if they believe and do good works, and commends Christians as the best friends of Muslims.

Quran 5:69 says (Arberry): “Surely they that believe, and those of Jewry, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, whoso believes in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness–their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow.”

Just touching on a few points.

The issue revolves around religious leaders issuing their own interpretations of Islam to suit their agenda.

There is just as much stupidity in the Jewish and Christian religions as there are in the Muslim religion.

As an example Westborrow Baptist lunatics.


ISIS / KKK used the respective religions to hide behind in order to -
A - justify their actions
B - Give the appearance that God supports their undertaking.

Do you think ISIS / KKK would be more successful if they stated they want to kill people simply because a leader in that group wants power with no opposition or diverging thoughts other than the one being pushed...

or

Do you think they would be more successful in co-opting a religion and twisting parts of it to justify their actions while ignoring the sections they cant?

ISIS is to Islam as the KKK is to Christianity.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: ARM1968

People like you make peace one hundred times less likely than it is currently, because you do what the terrorists want. You allow division to enter into communities, through your weakness and deliberate ignorance. How you can stand to look at yourself in the mirror in the morning is an absolute mystery to me.

You are not helping either. Attacking and trying to marginalise those that don't hold your view, which seems exclusively focused on blaming the Govt, only serves to entrench. No, Muslims are not all dangerous as the poster claims, but how in the world do you think you will help by taking your approach? See the above post for some training on how to debate. Your intellect, which is obviously high, seems caged.

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
a reply to: Sheye

The majority of the cabbies were in fact Sikh
They are one often one of the first groups to offer support and help in any disaster

In my experience the Sikh community is this country is one of the most peaceful and helpful of all our communities.

I don't always agree with you UKTruth but for this I wholeheartedly concur! I have found in my experience the Hindus have been wonderful too - at least here in Australia. It's lovely being to strike up banter about all sorts of things, I suppose that goes for everyone who aren't total jerks, and inevitably conversations turn to food.

Why were news outlets displaying previously deceased individuals as victims of the bombings?
That's pretty shady...

a reply to: auroraaus


As I have said, Sikh's, Hindus, B'Hais, Buddhists and many others are delightful people as a rule. Of course there will be the odd exception.

However that is not the case with Islam - and it really is not. You have to ask why. At the end of the day it is because of the teaching of Mohammed. They are not peaceful and until some introspection occurs within the Muslim faith this will continue and people will try to find excuses for them. There are none.

a reply to: ARM1968

Christianity and Judaism are just as brutal in some of their teachings.

There is nothing wrong with a religion that says you have to grow a beard, wear a head scarf or wear a hijab. It only becomes an issue when failure to do so becomes a crime against the state.

originally posted by: HorizonFall
Why were news outlets displaying previously deceased individuals as victims of the bombings?
That's pretty shady...

Give an example of this

Point me in the direction of the last Christian suicide bomber?

originally posted by: ARM1968
Point me in the direction of the last Christian suicide bomber?

* - Anti-balaka movement in the central African Republic
* - The slaughter of Muslims in the former Yugoslavia
* - The National Liberation Front of Tripura in India
* - The Nationalist Socialist Council of Nagaland in India
* - Maronite Christian militias in Lebanon
* - The Lord's Resistance Army in Uganda
* - The Christian Identify group - wordlwide
* - Anti abortion wingnuts in the US who murder abortion doctors.

All "Christian" extremists groups who murder to push their goal. The methods they use are in direct conflict with the religion they claim to be a part of. Just as the idiots who claim to be Muslim yet act in a manner that are in direct conflict with the basic pillars of Islam.

Murdering in the name of religion is not representing said religion. These groups use religion to justify their actions while ignoring the fact their actions arent sanctioned by said religion.

When did terrorism become restricted to just suicide bombers?

a reply to: Xcathdra


That wasn't what I asked was it?

I am aware of most of these minor groups.

My question was - when was the last Christian suicide bombing?

Islam is a dangerously backward religion and I find it highly ironic that lefties and liberals defend it so hawkishly. These people treat women appallingly. Most support stoning adulterouses. They are homophobic and barbaric. A majority want Sharia Law implemented.

How is it these people, trapped in the Middle Ages, garner the support of the so called enlightened. Astonishing.

a reply to: ARM1968

Islam forbids suicide / suicide bombers.

What part of that are you just not understanding?

Secondly the killing of anyone in the name of any religion is barbaric regardless if its a suicide bomber, someone with a gun, car bomb, or noose.

TRying to restrict your view to just suicide bomber tells me you are loooking to ignorantly blame Islam while ignoring the very same terrorism from Judea-Christian religions.

Why?

a reply to: Xcathdra


And this is why the problem will persist, because you and others fail to see that Islam is being used and deep within is an expansionist religion.

Keep telling yourself that Islam is a religion of peace, despite the evidence all around the world.

The tenets of Sharia Law are peaceful are they? Cutting off limbs, stoning adulterers, lashing people for minor misdemeanours and numerous other barbaric punishments.

Until Islam and Muslims mature this faith will constantly present us with problems and atrocities.

a reply to: Xcathdra

I think the problem is people who don't realise there are different sects of Islam, as there are with Christianity.
Generally speaking, followers of Shi'ite and Sunni Islam (The majority in the UK) are regular people like the rest of us.
It is that 'other' sect which is stoning gay people to death and blowing themselves up, the sect funded by a certain Middle East Oil country which we sell billions in arms to, while not condemning where they use those arms.

It a barbarous savage sect which treats women like dirt and hates the Sunni's and Shi'ites as much as they hate any other flavour of non believer.
So yes, to blame Islam is wrong, but that particular sect funded and resourced by that certain ME state is to blame absolutely, regardless of UK/US foreign policy. They have been torturing and murdering people for hundreds of years before UK/US dropped any bombs.

a reply to: ARM1968

No I see people trying to use religion as a legitimate cover for their agenda. But by all means lets paint everyone with the same brush because that doesnt lead to actions you condemn.

a reply to: Xcathdra
I'm quite interested in this subject and was wandering if you might be able to actually write out some of these quotes that support your argument.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Quite aggressive there :-)


My agenda is peace and harmony world wide. What's yours?

By sticking your head in liberal sand dunes you do nothing but support and aid Muslim expansionism and extremism.

I simply struggle to grasp the left/liberal agenda of falling over Islam and protecting these people who actually in truth despise all non Muslims.

How do you square the circle of Sharia Law, which a majority of Muslims want. It is barbaric on many levels and betrays the feminist movement almost entirely.

I'm not saying see things my way. I'm giving you the chance to. If you don't, no harm done, but you will eventually, when it is way too late to change it.

www.bbc.co.uk...

Manchester attack: Lead children's surgeon 'angry'

A brief video interview with the Lead Children's surgeon at Manchester.

Dr Ibrar Majid a devout Muslim say's he is angry at what happened in his city and describes the victims has having battlefield wounds removing shrapnel such as nuts, nails and other various items from the blast, after doing operations to save life's and limbs for 12 hours straight he describes going home to his own Wife and Son.

This is what a true Hero looks like folks.

Italian secret services are now testing neuro-psychological techniques to cause large chaos/panic among crowds. Yesterday the result of such experiment was a large stampede in Turin.

originally posted by: ARM1968
a reply to: Xcathdra


That wasn't what I asked was it?

So only suicide bombing counts as murder in your mind? any other kind if murder in the name of religion isn't valid? That seems reasonable and intelligent...