Loud Bangs heard in Manchester UK

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Xcathdra

I think that you would have a solid argument EXCEPT
It was hundreds of thousands of white people that died to help end The Holocaust
It was a bunch of White people that basically forced an end to Apartheid
It was on account of hundreds of thousands of white people dieing that slavery was aboliahed in the USA

When I see vast numbers of Muslims taking up arms to end Isis
To end AlQueda
To end Radical Islamic Terrorism
When they lose their lives so that others can live in peace and free
Like the others I listed above
Then
And only then
Do you have an argument

Exactly.

WHITES ended apartheid
WHITES ended the trans Atlantic slave trade
WHITES abolished slavery in North America
WHITES ended the holocaust
WHITES fight for freedom of EVERY person on earth
Yet, to ALL libs, WHITES are the problem

I think it's an IQ thing

Not ONE muslim, anywhere at all, stands up and says "we need to stop following the hateful, intolerant, supremacist teachings of a known pedophile"

Nazism was NOWHERE NEAR as hateful and intolerant and supremacist as islam, why do the left defend one and not the other??????

I think it's an IQ thing

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: SaturnFX

Killing families and stuff was from the poster I responded to. He was advocating killing terrorists, the families of terrorists and leveling the towns where terrorist reside / came from.

Hence my point - guilt by association is a double edged sword.

Well let me think on this

On one hand, its barbaric and horrible when considering killing innocents

On the other hand, it would stop dead most terrorist attacks where the terrorist did it in order to become a martyr but also to provide $$$ to the family (known that many suicide bombers get major donations to the family upon successful mission and it is a way for them, like life insurance, to provide a good life for the family along with die a hero and heaven, etc etc)

I think at this point in time, the idea is absolutely absurd..now, if westerners were being murdered in the hundreds of thousands per year by a clear warfare, then such subjects could be broached, but for now..I think trying to enhance a better mindset and living condition in the middle east is a more worthy goal.
The question then..debate..becomes how to do that, and how much does the west have to play a role in that aspect.

But yeah, the subject itself, although cruel and nearly barbaric, is not without merit in dire situations (of which we are no where near)

Not sure if it has been mentioned but it is a confirmed terrorist attack.

Still no word on the who, which is odd IIRC by this time.

a reply to: Arizonaguy

Right but my point is guilt by association is a double edged sword.

Yes people died to end WWII / Holocaust / slavery / apartheid and in general people can be associated with those actions. People can also be associated with causing WWII / Holocaust / slavery / apartheid.

More Muslims have been killed fighting terrorism than non Muslims.
Just as more Black people have been killed by Black people than non black people (black on black crime).
Just as more Mexicans have been killed by drug cartels run by Mexicans than non mexicans.

originally posted by: JinMI
Not sure if it has been mentioned but it is a confirmed terrorist attack.

Still no word on the who, which is odd IIRC by this time.

ISIS claimed responsibility although ive seen no official confirmation. British authorities have identified the bomber but have not released his name.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: JinMI
Not sure if it has been mentioned but it is a confirmed terrorist attack.

Still no word on the who, which is odd IIRC by this time.

ISIS claimed responsibility although ive seen no official confirmation. British authorities have identified the bomber but have not released his name.

Alrighty. I had not seen.

just watching sky news 22 dead now and children among the dead.
a man with a device and hes dead too

a reply to: SaturnFX

If what you are suggesting works, that it would stop terrorists in their tracks, then shouldn't Israel be living in peace with no issues? Russia?

Well, just to drag this back to topic.

Now confirmed as a bomb, probabaly a suicide bomber. The Home Secretary Amber Rudd said it was "a barbaric attack, deliberately targeting some of the most vulnerable in our society".

Targeting teenage girls and children. Children amongst the dead.

Concern of the sophistication of this attack. This suggests a trained operative.

A small political note... The last time Manchester was bombed it was by the IRA. Over the weekend Corbyn refused to condem the IRA.

a reply to: mOjOm

That's very good question, and one I'd like to see answered with something other than platitudes.

An evil deed done in the name of good doesn't suddenly become good. It remains evil. You can't kill innocents and hope to remain "good".

None of this is surprising in the slightest.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: SaturnFX

If what you are suggesting works, that it would stop terrorists in their tracks, then shouldn't Israel be living in peace with no issues? Russia?

From what I am reading, Russia has been doing this for awhile but not officially.
It seems that when they started to initiate it, it worked..suddenly the suicide bombings and terrorism screeched to a halt in communities. The argument against it is that it made entire communities angry at the government upon hearing of it (angry but didn't act).
The difference also is that since it was unofficial, it was rumor until firsthand accounts. Different than if it was a operational and understood consequence that was fully known.

I still say its a discussion to have should times become truly desperate..but for now, it is like discussing global thermonuclear war....only in the most desperate of circumstances should such subjects be broached.

Israel...from what I am reading, is just toying with the idea literally this week. No data points there to really get correlation of effectiveness.

So the only data we have is Russia..and it seems since its unofficial rumored existence, it has helped considerably..albeit with a lot of criticism

originally posted by: seagull
An evil deed done in the name of good doesn't suddenly become good. It remains evil. You can't kill innocents and hope to remain "good".

Good civilizations rarely survive.
Strong ones do.

All those families devastated. The heartache, the gut wrenching sense of loss. The 'if only's'

My 15 year old son attends concerts. I have been concerned about this exact thing happening and here we are. I was just being paranoid. He was in Leeds 2 weeks ago and Manchester last month. So what do I tell him when he wants to go to the next concert?

I am saturated with feelings of sadness, disgust and anger at the way religion is being used as a defence by some for weak minded, twisted, misfits who cling to its clearly inhumane doctrine, created by weak minded, twisted, misfits so that they may feel 'important'.

Being human is not a religion. We are born with compassion yet it seems to me some religions remove this natural and critical human element.

Terrorism isn't about religion. It's about the big boys at the top controlling the mindless morons on the lower levels who will blindly follow subhuman orders because they are void of any purpose and too weak to stand against barbarity. And they think they will have rewards?
I know good people of faith and I know good people of no faith. Neither would wish harm on the other.

As for killing terrorist family members, some are quite happy/proud to martyr their own children, which for me and hopefully most human beings is truly evil and incomprehensible.

My thoughts are with those families who's hearts are broken.

I am sometimes ashamed to be part of this species.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: JinMI
Not sure if it has been mentioned but it is a confirmed terrorist attack.

Still no word on the who, which is odd IIRC by this time.

ISIS claimed responsibility although ive seen no official confirmation. British authorities have identified the bomber but have not released his name.

They won't release his or her name until they start the raids. They will announce when they are busting down his or her door. And have cops talking to friends and relatives

a reply to: SaturnFX

You can be strong without setting out to kill innocents with deliberate intent.

If defeating Daesh means becoming them then I'm not sure I want to be here for the denouement.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: SaturnFX

You can be strong without setting out to kill innocents with deliberate intent.

If defeating Daesh means becoming them then I'm not sure I want to be here for the denouement.

They won't become ISIS by killing them. They become ISIS by raping, torturing, and murdering innocents on a genocidal scale in the name of a religion.

Gandhi once said the Jews should have committed collective suicide in the face of Nazi persecution So as to practice non-violence. His stupidity is apparent in the fact that more people would have died had they done such a thing, and it would have only helped the Nazi cause. Pacifism, and refusing to fight back, is the next worse thing to collective suicide.

originally posted by: paraphi
Well, just to drag this back to topic.


A small political note... The last time Manchester was bombed it was by the IRA. Over the weekend Corbyn refused to condem the IRA.

this as well. i have been thinking about whats been happening this week in politics, how corbyn was starting to become more popular, especially with the younger voters, how mays had to sidetrack with some of her proposed policies because people were turning against her.
now this attack on young people, it wont surprise me now if people do turn more to the conservatives which are becoming more right wing.
you only have to read the daily mail to see the comments by some people, itll only get worse now children have be killed on home soil

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I really hope you are not advocating killing of who may, or may not, be involved? If so, really?

...and when this tactic doesn't work, and it won't, what then? Oh, wait, I know, whole cities. countries.

...and what if, the terrorists are home grown...what then? Hmm? I'd really like to know.

Im pissed off that security wasn't better at an Ariana Grande concert, These are children, young girls being targeted

This is the world we live in now and events like this need alot better security.