This time, conservatives are the ones pissing me off.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Lol, well said.

a reply to: Metallicus

Works well in Australia - we also have private health insurance, costs about $500 p/month. No deductable /excess just a gap which is usually around 10% what Medicare doesn't cover. Most I ever paid for medication is about $27.00 for my monthly supply of tablets. Aspirin are about $3 for 20. No queues in general practise, about a 1/2 hour wait. My hernia op was done about 20 days after 1st diagnosis; - about $300 out of pocket.

Come to Australia.

Corporations ARE the government:

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." Benito Mussolini

Contrary to all the anti-government rhetoric, doing NOTHING is not the answer.

Government is the only answer people have for addressing grievances against corporations who are far more powerful than any individual will ever be. So saying government is not the answer is implying an individual is the answer. Individuals fighting the might of the multi-national corporations who have free reign to charge whatever they want with cartels and monopolies doesn't seem a likely possibility.

An old English judge once said: 'Necessitous men are not free men.' Liberty requires opportunity to make a living - a living decent according to the standard of the time, a living which gives man not only enough to live by, but something to live for.

For too many of us the political equality we once had won was meaningless in the face of economic inequality. A small group had concentrated into their own hands an almost complete control over other people's property, other people's money, other people's labor - other people's lives. For too many of us life was no longer free; liberty no longer real; men could no longer follow the pursuit of happiness.

Against economic tyranny such as this, the American citizen could appeal only to the organized power of government.

When you guys are done roasting liberals and progressives as "pro-government" just remember "against economic tyranny such as this" who are you going to get to address your grievances?

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Metallicus

It seems like you don't stand in too long of line now, pay through the nose and every other orifice for substandard care. We are 30th in medical outcomes.
Columbia had better medical out comes than the US.

And if you use medical insurance, there is a little secret you may or may not know. It is privatized socialism.

And some one (maybe you and I ) are making money off this medical system while millions of people are struggling to pay the premiums... Yes great system.

Don't let the facts get in the way of good libertarian delusions.

Both sides of the government screw over the average joe. I'm surprised some of you people haven't wised up by now.

Democraps. Republigarbagecans. - Common Denominator is you get f*cked either way. LOL ENJOY!

originally posted by: 4N0M4LY
Both sides of the government screw over the average joe. I'm surprised some of you people haven't wised up by now.

Democraps. Republigarbagecans. - Common Denominator is you get f*cked either way. LOL ENJOY!

Okay, we get it. We need to wake up. We are a bunch of sheeple. Both parties are the same. We are getting effed.

So your conclusion is to do nothing which favors the status quo. If we cannot appeal to government to address our grievances, what else can we do?

When I vote for a Democrat I do it because it's my only hope for change. I don't vote blindly thinking Democrats are more moral than Republicans. I do it thinking who I am voting for will most likely be completely disappointing, corrupt, and complete waste of time.

But besides not voting and doing nothing at all what else can people do to fight the bureaucracy and economic tyranny of the international corporations who are price-fixing wages and pricing?

originally posted by: Metallicus
Universal health care is bad for people like me because I will have to go stand in a damn line and get sub-standard care from a cut rate physician when I would rather just pay for services rendered and keep the Government out of my transaction.

What are you talking about? I live in a country with universal health care. I've been to the ER, I have family and friends that needed surgery, blood, organs, you name it.

None of us experienced any wait time or complications after the fact.

How can you honestly not see how a universal healthcare system is benificial?

Some make the argument that you're paying a ton of taxes for it. Nope... the average US citizen pays more than any other first world country with a universal health care plan on medical expenses.

My friend from the states is about to have a second child. His first cost him $3k to deliver: that would be free in Canada.

He also has to go back for another surgery. First two cost him 11k combined. That would be free in Canada.

Canada isn't even a good example of universal health care either. Every other country with universal health care doesn't even need to pay for perscriptions. In Canada, we do unless we have a private health care plan. Which, guess what, is about $55 per month...

a reply to: dfnj2015

There is nothing you can do about it other than voting for the lesser of two evils. The people have the power to dismantle the current two party system as it's a constitutional right to do so if it is proven a broken system.

Seems like most people are happy ping ponging back and forth to the same bad politicians without asking, what is really wrong with this picture???

The only way to win is not to play the game. We all know that won't happen.

I say this as an American who loves what the country once stood for, but Americans have been purposely conditioned to put themselves first and not care about others at all. Hopefully more people will see it now that we know what the media and schools have been up to. But the thing is, we have to reject that way of thinking to make this kind of healthcare plan work.

Like another poster in this thread, I'm in Japan right now and the healthcare is better. It's not perfect, but like most systems here it runs smoothly. But there's a big difference between Japanese and American society. You need most of the population to get behind it and sadly I do not see Americans all pitching in and respecting this system. The population is divided in half so they can't all work together on anything at the moment.

originally posted by: Daavin
Canadian here, when I got my kidney stones, no waiting, rushed right in and treatment started, same with when I was having heart palpitations, my father who had cancer was in surgery within 2 weeks and treatments started immediately after, I don't know where your getting this wait in line info from, when you go to the hospital you're go through triage to determine the severity of your situation, if you're there with the sniffles then yup you're gonna wait while they treat more serious patients, my family doctor can see me in one to two days sometimes I'll call in the am and get an appointment that afternoon, my Parkinson's took the longest at 2 months to see a neurologist, All payed for by my "communist healthcare"

This ^^^^


We have a percentage of our population who are simply SCARED of universal health care on one side (it's the guberment an their gonna kill us off! we'll have to wait like they did for bread in commie russia!)

This combined with:

1) I don't want to pay for the "undeserving" Other, (because obviously if you are too poor to pay or you screwed up your health then you don't deserve any compassion or assistance and need to lie in the punitive bed you made for yourself, damn if I'll help you out of it and give you a chance, even though it will make my own healthcare costs go DOWN) and

2) healthcare is only for those who can damn well afford it! If you can't afford it you don't deserve it and so you or your child should die (i.e. prosperity gospel mentality applied to human health instead of livelihood)

It's weird. Efficiency and less cost per individual seems to fly right over everyone's heads in the fear and judgement being passed on their fellow man. It is GOOD economic sense and down right capitalistic to use the Wal-Mart technique of "bulk purchasing" and the power of a massive customer base to negotiate pricing.

Then there is ALWAYS going to be the option to get your luxury or extra care via private insurance or riders, just like Medicare has. You can purchase additional insurances for specific reasons, no? Or to cover any gaps that Medicare has that you know you might need = i.e. more insurance for medicine costs or what have you.

NO ONE is trying to take anything away from you, but instead to raise up our civilization to that "Shining City on a Hill" - one that doesn't have people dying from hopeless drug addiction in the heartland, one that knows that taking care of each other in our nation isn't the same as losing our country to heathen communists, but rather an expression of the very essence of the teachings of our dominant religions, put into a secular policy to benefit everyone and screw no one.

How much do people pay per year for this? In the UK someone was saying they pay the equivalent of $770 annually for their family and they get benefits far greater than our own through their NHS.

The biggest problem is how to administrate effectively and efficiently like they do in Japan and elsewhere, and to protect it from idiot politicians who, like in the case of the ACA, are hell bent on destroying it (which is part of the freaking reason it cost so freaking much, btw - the GOP wouldn't fund risk management and it wouldn't expand Medicaid cause states-rights).

Sorry, this hits home for me. I've got so much on my plate with sick children right now that this bill is like a stab in the gut. Wholly illogical and irresponsible governance. We will remember.

Meanwhile, the right tries to lie it's butt off to say how great this massive tax cut will be for my healthcare...

universal healthcare might work ok in those other countries but this is America, if you really want to see how it would work in America just check out the veterans administration health care system, THAT is what universal healthcare in America would look like.
the bureaucracy lets people who volunteered to fight and die for their country die in the streets waiting for an appointment to see a doctor,so how much better do you think the bureaucracy will treat "useless eaters" who have never done anything for their country??

It wouldn`t work very well in America because of all the greed ,incompetence, corruption,regulations, and political meddling by politicians who work for the lobbyists of big corporations.

obamacare is a perfect example of political meddling in healthcare and look at what a disaster that has been.

in America politicians need to stay the hell out of healthcare and stick to what they do best, lying and taking bribes.

a reply to: deadlyhope

If socialized medicine was constitutional, we'd already have it.


The countries you describe, if we adopted their form of government, we'd have to drastically change the US Constitution.

a reply to: DBCowboy

We did not have roe v wade til 1970's (14th) amendment.

Is the universal health care hidden somewhere in the constitution?

a reply to: dfnj2015

I'm not sure they are delusions.

I really believe some people refuse to look at the evidence in front of them. Perhaps there are lots of AM radio listeners, I was one. But then started to research what the multi-millionaire radio/"news" personalities were telling me.

Turns out a lot of it is bull slip.

And yes corps are the govt.

As long at there is money to be made, the for profit medical system in the USA will not change.
It's capitalism, free enterprise. If you think this is going to change....could I interest you in a ford pinto, runs great!

Any one that thinks the basic health care system will benefit them under a Trump presidency; actually don't be surprised when your premiums increase.

It's a shame we can't have the same kind of health care plans our leaders enjoy, paid for by you and me, but we're SOL.

a reply to: deadlyhope

"The rant section is a tongue in cheek... Rant."

At first I thought Bipolar or Schizophrenia was at work here....


Um.... carry on.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Are you sure about that?

Most other countries are capitalistic in nature - The Government doesn't actually own all the business and land, people do. So I don't know where this idea comes from that we'd have to re-structure to be communistic, etc.

Secondly, I've heard "taxes are illegal" in the first place - Well, they seem here to stay, regardless of the legality.

How those taxes are spent... Well that sure as hell has never been up to the citizen.

I don't support wars that destabilize regions.

I don't support religions getting tax breaks.

But I don't get to choose... Unless you call the farce that is voting "choice".

a reply to: deadlyhope

The Nordic countries don't have less crime, less poverty, less inequality, because of their government and political system, but because they're full of Nordic people. Don't blame capitalism for your crushed socialist failures.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Any form of a socialized system empowers the government.

If there was anything within the US Constitution that would enable the government MORE power, MORE control, it would have been done long before now.

a reply to: AboveBoard

I agree with you!

I've participated on so many forum-boards and the like, have played lots of video games, etc - And getting to know people from other countries, I honestly don't hear all of these problems come up that people talk about.

It's not at a huge expense.

It's not huge waiting lines.

I have heard a couple examples of major things not being covered right away, and private offices being their choice based on this - But I've never heard of it depicted as a nightmare, just simply a quicker way to get something done that wasn't immediately covered through standard care.

But what's wrong with a person's health being taken care of by default, but have the choice to go to a private practice if you want a different standard of care than others? ( Which is NOT a low standard of care, just has different rules/etc. )