A very simple question that seem to stumped both atheists and evolutionists alike.

a reply to: sstyles15

Well Chickens are birds, which are technically reptiles so yeah

originally posted by: edmc^2
Hence this is where logic and the process of elimination comes in.

To put it in another frame of questioning: "If a tree falls in the forest, and there’s nobody around to hear, does it make a sound?"

The tree creates a sound wave, whether somebody hears it or not.

Just because we can't measure infinity, it doesn't mean that it does not exist. It merely emphasizes our physical limitations to an infinite degree.

It also doesn't mean that it DOES exist. It's a completely pointless question that nobody could ever answer.

But we're not at a lost because the mind is up to the task. The mind can travel beyond space and time with ease! And can't be bounded. In fact, the moment you put a boundary to the universe, the mind breaks out and will force you to ask another question - what's behind the boundary? and on and on. It can't accept a boundary no matter what you do.

Hence infinity.

The mind can travel beyond space and time with ease? Now THAT I've love to see proved.

a reply to: Barcs

Sorry but infinity does exist and it can be mathematically proven with the Mandelbrot set.




Also the second law of thermodynamics tells us energy can neither be created or destroyed. In which case it too must be infinite.

Also let me re-phrase the tree falling in a forest question to this, and ask:

If a man speaks in a forest and no women is around to hear him, is he still wrong?

a reply to: surfer_soul

Infinity only exists in the sense that numbers do not have a limit, not in the sense that anything is ever infinite in size. Granted there are mathematical models that theorize it, there is no empirical data whatsoever to suggest it. It is a concept that requires abstract concepts that can't be quantified.

The laws of physics do not apply until after the big bang expansion begins, so prior to that, you simply don't know. That doesn't make energy infinite, but it COULD be eternal or exist in a cycle (ie big bang to big crunch), but that's not the same concept as saying the universe is infinite.

a reply to: Barcs

The mind can travel beyond space and time with ease? Now THAT I've love to see proved.

I'm surprised you seem not to grasp what I'm saying. The keyword is mind, not the brain.

I.e. Steven Hawings as an example - can travel space through his mind.

Turtles.
All the way down.

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: surfer_soul

Infinity only exists in the sense that numbers do not have a limit, not in the sense that anything is ever infinite in size. Granted there are mathematical models that theorize it, there is no empirical data whatsoever to suggest it. It is a concept that requires abstract concepts that can't be quantified.

The laws of physics do not apply until after the big bang expansion begins, so prior to that, you simply don't know. That doesn't make energy infinite, but it COULD be eternal or exist in a cycle (ie big bang to big crunch), but that's not the same concept as saying the universe is infinite.

Some nonmainstream alternative cosmologies hold that the universe is eternal and the big bang is false.

a reply to: Xenogears

I Guess we should change the definition of finite..... to infinite.

a reply to: edmc^2

Infinity has no beginning. Does that have a cause.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Xenogears

I Guess we should change the definition of finite..... to infinite.

Well the seemingly temporal nature of things is just their transmutation from one form to another ultimately.

originally posted by: edmc^2
a reply to: Barcs

The mind can travel beyond space and time with ease? Now THAT I've love to see proved.

I'm surprised you seem not to grasp what I'm saying. The keyword is mind, not the brain.

I.e. Steven Hawings as an example - can travel space through his mind.

The key words are "travel beyond space and time". Imagination is not traveling beyond space and time, sorry.

originally posted by: Idreamofme
a reply to: edmc^2

Got an easier one, but no less unsolvable.

"What came first the chicken or the egg"?

Hint: No one knows the answer no matter how smart they sound.

The DNA came first.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

But possibly RNA before that, and very possibly something else prior

originally posted by: Noinden
a reply to: All Seeing Eye

But possibly RNA before that, and very possibly something else prior

Don't know why, but I can in-vision that

originally posted by: purplemer
a reply to: edmc^2

Infinity has no beginning. Does that have a cause.

No. Infinite always was and always is. And takes up all Space there is.

Finite can neither be infinite nor infinitesimal

originally posted by: Xenogears

originally posted by: Barcs
a reply to: surfer_soul

Infinity only exists in the sense that numbers do not have a limit, not in the sense that anything is ever infinite in size. Granted there are mathematical models that theorize it, there is no empirical data whatsoever to suggest it. It is a concept that requires abstract concepts that can't be quantified.

The laws of physics do not apply until after the big bang expansion begins, so prior to that, you simply don't know. That doesn't make energy infinite, but it COULD be eternal or exist in a cycle (ie big bang to big crunch), but that's not the same concept as saying the universe is infinite.

Some nonmainstream alternative cosmologies hold that the universe is eternal and the big bang is false.

Some mainstream cosmologies say that existence could be eternal AND the big bang is true.

There are mainstream ideas that our particular and current universe was in fact a result of the big bang, but the greater "Multiverse" (or whatever name you want to give to the hypothetical "place" in which our universe resides) is older than our universe, and could possibly be eternal.

It seems likely our particular universe with its particular physical laws had a beginning. However, that's not the same as saying that all of existence had a beginning.

The current mainstream Big Bang theory does not prohibit this idea.

originally posted by: surfer_soul
a reply to: Barcs

Sorry but infinity does exist and it can be mathematically proven with the Mandelbrot set.

You don't need a Mandelbrot Set to prove the mathematical concept of infinity; simple numbers and simple addition can do that...

Any number you can think of can be increased by adding one to it. Therefore, there is no such thing as a largest number, thus numbers are infinite. Simples.

However, that is still just an abstract mathematical concept, and not really a tangible "infinite thing" we can point to.

That is to say:
Space does not need to be infinite for the mathematical concept of infinity to exist."

a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Space does not need to be infinite for the mathematical concept of infinity to exist."

Space is infinite..... Math is the concept of unreal sets..... when it comes to infinity. Infinity is just a concept within Math.

Real Math and real science deals With real and finite values. The reality is that we can not observe anything that is infinite.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Space does not need to be infinite for the mathematical concept of infinity to exist."

Space is infinite..... Math is the concept of unreal sets..... when it comes to infinity. Infinity is just a concept within Math.

Space might be infinite or maybe it isn't. We don't have good evidence one way or the other.

I might personally feel that it is infinite (or not), but what I personally think concerning the question of the infiniteness of space is not really relevant as to the actual true nature of space. It would be infinite or finite no matter what people's thoughts are on the subject.

My personal feeling is that our universe is finite, but it might be part of a larger (maybe infinite?) existence that could potentially include other universes. The "larger, possibly infinite" existence (call it a multiverse if you want, for lack of a better term) may be a place that is impossible for us to visit due to being extradimensional, and perhaps impossible for us to understand.

And The extra-dimensionality of this hypothetical multiverse might be such that our concepts of "finite" and "infinite" may have no real meaning.

But like I said, I have no real evidence either way, so there is no way for me to say that infinite space does or does not exist.

a reply to: All Seeing Eye

Evidence suggests even our genetic coding system evolved.