Assad may be a lot of things, but he’s not stupid.

a reply to: 1947boomer

Thanks for adding that link to the discussion.

a reply to: moebius

So I guess that makes you a "White Helmet" or Al Nusra adept huh?... Because you are believing the word of the white helmets despite the fact that they have been caught many times making false claims about attacks.

originally posted by: D8Tee
a reply to: face23785

Are we sure it was Sarin gas?

The first casualty of war is the truth.

According to the link that 1947boomer posted, it would appear that it was not sarin. It was chlorine and organic phosphates.

Most sources are saying it was sarin. Chem weapons experts and doctors familiar with the symptoms. Chlorine doesn't have the mortality rate that we saw in this attack. Not to mention you can see chlorine, it is a green tinted gas. I don't know much about organic phosphates so I can't comment on that.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse


What's glaringly obvious is that the media have their scripted agenda on how this is going to play out. But when one senator questions the rhetoric its amazing how the interviewer gets tongue tied and flustered with an alternative view.

There is a 100% foolproof way to tell if a theory/narrative is fugazi...is it on TV? Yes? Then that is not a viable model for the reality.

Make note that whatever the TV says is most definitely not the case, in fact thank them that you can now rule that out, and look past it.

a reply to: pheonix358

Like the weapons of mass destruction that did not exist. Like all of these countries that are only months away from building nukes.

Actually as a few of us have pointed out for years the Russians moved them into Syria. Our troops had to wait for the Russians to leave Baghdad. Seems odd, but then add in the fact that the Russians are now in Syria. So in disagreement with the op I will throw in that perhaps this has all been a long term plan for the Russians. Who benefits? The Russians would. Russia has never been to shy about using chemical weapons and to use Assad as a stalking horse to hide their using of them fits just as easily.

a reply to: hangedman13

Yes, i broke the story in the forums that John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security under the Bush administration stated he had evidence the Russians moved Saddam's wmd to Syria. Since the Bush administration decided not to proceed with this evidence, it was going to be used later under the Obama administration. Because the Bush administration did nothing about this information Saw went public with this, and he was fired for releasing this information to the public.

OP/ED: Official Who Tied Russia to Iraqs WMD is Ousted by Pentagon

www.washingtontimes.com...

Then we had witnesses like Iraqi general Sada, second in command of Saddam's air force who stated that he saw how wmd were moved to places like Syria.

www.nysun.com...

Even John Bolton, Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security said in his testimony before the House International Relations Committee, Subcommittee on the Middle East and Central Asia, that:

...
Before I address the specifics of Syria's WMD programs, let me first discuss press reports that Iraq covertly transferred weapons of mass destruction to Syria in an attempt to hide them from UN inspectors and Coalition forces. We have seen these reports, reviewed them carefully, and see them as cause for concern. Thus far, we have been unable to confirm that such transfers occurred. We are continuing with the full breadth of resources at our command to seek conclusive evidence that any such transfer has taken place. We have raised with the Syrians on numerous occasions, even before military action against Iraq, the seriousness with which we would view any transfer of Iraqi dual-use or military related items into Syria.
...

2001-2009.state.gov...

Bolton claimed they had no evidence to confirm this, despite John A Shaw going public with the information and subsequently being fired for leaking it to the public.

Heck, we even had satellite photos of convoys of trucks leaving Iraq with military equipment that would have been deemed as "illegal" for Iraq to have.

www.washingtontimes.com...

But since then, the "rebels", which includes ISIS and Al Nusra had also taken chemical weapons inventory from areas they took control of in Syria.

Heck, even the Huff published this.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

Since then there have been many claims that Syria used wmd. Although in the past it is possible this happened, there are cases in which it was clear that it was not Syria who used chemical weapons. For example.

The Taleb family of 6 which was murdered in 2015.

...
Below is a scene from the damaged basement apartment where it’s claimed the Talebs met their fate. UN investigators accepted the claim that one of those unlikely barrel bombs happened to fall right through a narrow slot for a ventilation shaft, no more than 1.5 meters wide, “improbable as it sounds.” [12] Thus it hit their kitchen wall full force without exploding, knocking down the wall and somehow filling the whole apartment with gallons of red-purple fluid, and thus chlorine gas.

It’s not clear how the fluid would spread so widely, why the wrong kind of gas cylinder is also seen atop the rubble, or why the home and twisted barrel casing (but not that extra canister) seem damaged by an explosion. [13] So far, it seems no one, even the OPCW’s investigators, has made full sense of this scene.

At least two strong clues entered below suggest the Taleb family didn’t really live here anyway.

Black Flags and White Helmets

By the logo, that site video was filmed by “Coordinating Sarmin,” local activists affiliated with Al-Qaeda’s Syria franchise Jabhat al-Nusra (see the black flag atop “Sarmin” in gold, shared by JaN). [14] Other aftermath videos are filmed by the newly-minted “White Helmets,” or “Syrian Civil Defense,” Idlib branch. In fact, this incident seems to be the first prominent appearance of the White Helmets anywhere, their debut performance of sorts.
...

theindicter.com...

That scene was staged, and the attack was probably done by Al Nusra/ISIS. The wrong container is at the site of the attack, and the container is almost intact, not to mention that it didn't explode. Which it means it wasn't dropped from neither a plane, nor a helicopter.

a reply to: face23785

I don't think..from what I have read, that the doctors/emergency workers were wearing the type of protection required for Sarin..they would of had mass casualties amongst themselves?
It's a very f'd up situation in any case.

Not all of Iraq's WMD was moved to Syria. Our troops found plenty of it, were exposed to it, and still suffer the effects today.

VA Info for Veterans of OIF
CNN
NYT
NYT Again

It's certainly plausible some of it was moved, however our troops did find plenty of WMD in Iraq. The intelligence reports suggested they were still actively producing it, which turned out to be false, but they had lots of it in their inventory already. I'm trying to get this info around because a) some vets don't know this is acknowledged and they can get help and compensation for it and b) lots of people still think there were no WMDs and we just made that up as an excuse to invade. You can argue motives for the invasion all day but anyone claiming there were no WMDs in Iraq is either misinformed or lying.

a reply to: vonclod

From what we saw in the videos, many victims were removed from the exposure area before they were treated by medical personnel, and at least some had their faces and bodies rinsed off with water. This is actually the recommended procedure for sarin exposure and nerve agents in general, to remove them from the immediate area and rinse the exposed parts of the body to remove or at least dilute the chemical. Sarin evaporates as well, so between that and some victims having been washed, doctors/emergency personnel who simply had victims brought to them at the hospital would have minimal or no exposure. Even the people who ran into the exposure area would have less exposure than the people who were actually there when the chemical dispersed because once it settles onto the ground, if you're clothed and enter the area, your exposure will be minimal. You can experience some exposure from handling contaminated victims or objects in the area.

Has there been any concrete accounting of who died? For all we know some of the people who ran in to help the original victims were indeed among the casualties.

a reply to: face23785
time.com...

Early U.S. assessments showed the use of chlorine gas and traces of the nerve agent sarin in the attack Tuesday that terrorized the Syrian town of Khan Sheikhoun, according to two U.S. officials who weren't authorized to speak publicly on the matter and demanded anonymity.

Victims of the attack showed signs of nerve gas exposure, the World Health Organization and Doctors Without Borders said, including suffocation, foaming at the mouth, convulsions, constricted pupils and involuntary defecation. Paramedics were using fire hoses to wash the chemicals from the bodies of victims.
Medical teams also reported smelling bleach on survivors of the attack, suggesting chlorine gas was also used, Doctors Without Borders said.

Conflicting reports, who's to believe...

a reply to: D8Tee

Point taken. Even the source you just quoted says that there were symptoms of exposure to nerve agents though. Chlorine doesn't produce those effects. If chlorine was used, it would've had to be in addition to the nerve agent. All the reports of symptoms of exposure to nerve agents show that a nerve agent consistent with the effects of sarin was used. Traces would be all that was left of the nerve agent since it evaporates, so the fact it says "traces" doesn't really mean much. It was there. Sarin doesn't occur naturally.

The problem with the Russian narrative remains. Sarin being stored by the terrorists getting hit with a conventional bomb wouldn't have had the same effects, per the source I cited. Whether chlorine was additionally used doesn't change that. If they wanted to push the narrative that it wasn't them, they should've just dropped chlorine. That would've been a lot easier to pass off as having been the terrorists.

Dr. Marcus Papadopoulos. This name sounds fake as a million dollar bill. I remember a show on ABC at one time with another papadopoulos. Full house i believe it was?

a reply to: yuppa

Nothing fake about his name or his expertise.

Dr Marcus Papadopoulos is the Publisher and Editor of Politics First magazine and an expert on Russia. He earned his BA, in Law and Modern History, from London Guildhall University, his MA, in Modern History, from Royal Holloway, University of London, and his PhD, in Russian history, from Royal Holloway, University of London. The title of his doctoral thesis was: "British official perceptions of the Red Army, 1934-1945" and is available at the British Library.
...

www.eurocse.org...

originally posted by: VimanaExplorer
Look at who our leaders are bending over for - UAE and Saudi rulers who didn't want powerful leaders like Saddam, Gaddafi, Assad etc.

Assad and his wife who is more westernized than Trump's handlers. It is really sad that our leaders on the side of terrorists.
Britain considered knighthood for Syria's Assad in 2002: report

So you use a picture of Trump and a guest at maralago. And worse want to claim assad was almost knighted for being a nice guy. I wouldnt use this defense anymore because at the time 10 downing st said he was a

“this nasty dictatorship that locks up its own MPs”.

a reply to: face23785


Hillary's name comes up again in this leaked e mail. sayin Al queda is on her side in Syria. So they sent them weapons, now they are getting bombed by the Russians we can see where all this is heading. https://__._/clinton-emails/emailid/23225#efmAGIAHu oh I forgot not allowed

a reply to: anonentity

I've seen the Clinton email you're referencing, and as a result of it I still despise her as I did before. The evidence still points to the Syrian air force having dropped sarin and Russia's story about accidentally hitting some being stored by the rebels is still bogus, unless someone can offer a scientific refutation of the source I quoted. We got any chemists here?