Transgender issues and the end of Empire.

This might seem a strange and radical idea, but this Professor has looked back over time and has identified cultural transgender issues always occur at the end of an historical period. The Ancient Greek the Roman and many others. Does the Empire start of like an aggressive male. As the early statues suggest, and then near the end these statues become more androgynous. The sexual freedoms may have a price after all. We are observing androgyny on a remarkable scale at the moment.

Transgengers. Redheads that go blond?

You know what the definition of androgynous is, don't you? Doesn't have much to do with transgender.

You'd think that being a professor, this person might have a better understanding of what she's talking about. Take it from someone that does (me), she's strung a few inaccurate and half-baked ideas into talking points that I fail to see the validity of. In other terms, I think she's a nutter with her own agenda and probably a TERF.

Crashing empires for 62 years now. Watch out! The end of the world is probably all my fault.

a reply to: Phage


Lets not get into this, but its a Lesbian Gay Transgender thingy, which always seems to come at the end of a historic period. Why is the question/ when its more important to decide what toilet to use, than to question why the national debt is 20 trillion and un payable.

a reply to: Freija


We are all an expression of our times and circumstances, why does this expression come at these times.

a reply to: anonentity

which always seems to come at the end of a historic period.

We could talk about what "the end of a historic period" means (as far as I can tell history just keeps going), but as far as I can tell transgendered have always been around.

Why is the question/ when its more important to decide what toilet to use, than to question why the national debt is 20 trillion and un payable.

That's a good question. Who cares what toilet someone uses?

a reply to: anonentity

So basically every time a theater shows up a civilization ends?

I don't think it's fair to just single out Transgenders on this issue....usually excessive sexual promiscuity is more of a component than anything else.

Especially when sexuality starts being used as a power control paradigm or just gets absolutely out of hand and all civility and modesty disappears.

The rise of technology and the rapid trend of sending nudes, the way in which such photos get exploited and how sometimes intimacy is a means towards blackmail is far more telling than someone who simply feels trapped in the wrong physical body.

I've been seeing things online (products, slogans on shirts, etc...) geared towards teenagers that is coarsely suggestive, sometimes even so blunt that even my worldly eyes are disgusted.

The hyper-sexuality of the culture in general might be better used as the defining transition point.

Can't just point fingers at one group when a large percentage of society is engaging in the same excess of sexuality.

a reply to: Deaf Alien


When the paying customers become the theatre it probably does.

a reply to: anonentity

Reminds me of this quote:
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts, His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant, Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms."

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Freija

We are all an expression of our times and circumstances, why does this expression come at these times.

Because it sells newspapers and is click worthy. Phage is right as usual - transgender people have always existed throughout history.

Why is the question/ when its more important to decide what toilet to use, than to question why the national debt is 20 trillion and un payable.

Ask the Republicans and fundamentalists. Maybe you should not pee until you can do something about that national debt (and war, poverty, famine, corruption, racism, discrimination and the list goes on...)

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: anonentity

So basically every time a theater shows up a civilization ends?

A whole new spin on Greek Tragedies.

a reply to: WakeUpBeer

A whole new spin on Greek Tragedies.

That would be awesome.

LaBeouf would be the downfall of America.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Phage


Lets not get into this, but its a Lesbian Gay Transgender thingy, which always seems to come at the end of a historic period. Why is the question/ when its more important to decide what toilet to use, than to question why the national debt is 20 trillion and un payable.

And there it is.

Why go more into it than this... the Empire is already dead but we get to fight about who pees where.

/huge applause emote with nothing to add because why bother

I respect that Camille Paglia is a notable individual in her field of expertise, however i think using artistic sculptures as an indicator of a society's collapse is quite a feeble argument. Moreso to link that to androgyny or transgenderism in playing a role in a society's collapse. In many cases, the collapse of societies are likely a result of multiple factors ranging from political and military events to societal changes. Art did change with the times, including when empires expanded and when some were nearing their end, but correlation does not imply causation. Just because art tended to become more diverse and 'androgynous' near the collapse of a society does not mean that their subject matter or apparent influences contributed to the collapse of it. Art was always changing. Furthermore, to pinpoint the destruction of an empire or society is not very easy to do. Where do you draw the line? Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome went through many political changes and conflicts. Surely, there are many more complex reasons for societal collapse than what Camille Paglia indicates.

a reply to: anonentity

Camille is a known TERF since about 2011. Also a really really really bad feminist.


This tells you how she feels about feminism:

"If civilization had been left in female hands, we would still be living in grass huts".

This tells you that she lets her own experience guide and control her logic:

"Because of my own family's service (in the U.S. Army, Navy, and Massachusetts and New York National Guard), I am a strong supporter of the military and do believe that there are just wars".

Sexist even when talking about sexuality:

"Leaving sex to the feminists is like letting your dog vacation at the taxidermist".

On top of all this, there has never been a time when transgender folk didn't exist. Genderqueer, transgender, straight-up transsexuals... all have existed throughout history regardless of a culture's stage in evolution. All she is seeing is a culture's increased ability to record events and document people.

Her premise is just plain stupid.

a reply to: Freija


You are quite right, all these things and a myriad of others are all part of the national psych throughout the ages, and exist in the general background without much ado, then all of a sudden from this myriad of options a focus congeals, onto the main stream consciousness of the day. It fills the observable hours more so mainly as an encouraged distraction. Then the sheeple jump on the band wagon , and after days of introspection ,decide their natural state of general human misery can be changed, as the dysfunction was obviously caused by being born the wrong sex. The problem being those that got it wrong cant change their mind. When in the past an effeminate male would just have remained an effeminate male, and adjusted their lives accordingly.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Freija
When in the past an effeminate male would just have remained an effeminate male, and adjusted their lives accordingly.

Again, you are showing that you don't understand the subject. Effeminate males are effeminate males even today. They are not transgender.

However, there have always been men and women who were assigned a gender at birth which was wrong and many lived as the gender that matched their brains (transfolk). It has nothing to do with being "effeminate". If it did, how do you explain transwomen who are tomboys?

I think you're failing to get the whole gender dysphoria thing and are conflating it with behavior.

a reply to: Abysha


I think that you are over complicating it, when one has many choices as we have these days one can be spoilt for choice, in the past the choices were more restricted, and life adjusted accordingly. Like what happens to an Irish navy digging the canals, who suddenly decides to become a woman.....? the thought might have been there but not the options.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Abysha


I think that you are over complicating it, when one has many choices as we have these days one can be spoilt for choice, in the past the choices were more restricted, and life adjusted accordingly. Like what happens to an Irish navy digging the canals, who suddenly decides to become a woman.....? the thought might have been there but not the options.

Many transsexuals lived as their true gender throughout history. Again, we aren't talking about effeminate man and masculine women. These people lived and were accepted (any many cultures) as the gender they presented as, marrying and performing duties expected of that gender.

This has been going on since recorded history. In fact, the first known writing (arguably) was to a goddess who's mythology included her granting transgender people sex changes.