Transgender issues and the end of Empire.

originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: Phage


Lets not get into this, but its a Lesbian Gay Transgender thingy, which always seems to come at the end of a historic period. Why is the question/ when its more important to decide what toilet to use, than to question why the national debt is 20 trillion and un payable.

I am pretty sure Greece had plenty of gays during virtually the entire period and that Greece did quite alright.

Actually, I am pretty sure Greece did best no matter which contemporary standard you hold them to.

originally posted by: anonentity
Then the sheeple jump on the band wagon , and after days of introspection ,decide their natural state of general human misery can be changed, as the dysfunction was obviously caused by being born the wrong sex.

Wow! You have some weird ideas and obviously lack knowledge of the genuine trans experience. If you're referring to the social phenomenon of transtrenders and gender benders, band wagon jumping, attention whoring and doing something to be cool or for victim points, I might be inclined to agree with you. "Transgender" is a broad umbrella term that encompasses a lot of things and the word has been co-opted and diluted in meaning. It is unfortunate that those truly suffering get lumped in with those making a sociopolitical statement or rebelling against society. I can see you, as well as many others are confused by this and are unable to make a distinction between those experiencing a medical condition and those with variant and/or non-binary gender expressions for whatever reasons.

The problem being those that got it wrong cant change their mind. When in the past an effeminate male would just have remained an effeminate male, and adjusted their lives accordingly.

I struggle to be courteous but effeminate males and masculine females are just that. Their expressions of gender or their behavior does not make them transgender. As a matter of fact prior to transition, many male-to-female trans people are often hyper-masculine, 20% more likely to join the military than non-trans people and commonly married to women and have children.

Then there are the truly transgender children themselves. For some, they never have the sense of their natal anatomy or social role or anything matches who they are as the people they know themselves to be. This is a condition known today by modern medicine and science as gender dysphoria. It is indeed something people are born with and the vast majority and bulk of scientific evidence points to neurobiological origins.

I can tell you all about this if you want to know because this is something I deeply struggled with as a child. This was certainly not by choice but I am someone that was born male bodied and grew up knowing myself to be a girl from the earliest memories I have. There's never been a minute of confusion about that and as I entered my teens, the situation became intolerable and very difficult. Talk about awkward and something horrible to try to live with. There was no viable alternative and by the time I was 18 (1973), the rest of the world knew me as the gender I'd always known myself to be and under the care of medical professionals, I was able to correct my physical anomalies as well. To use Abysha's words, I was "straight up transsexual" and have lived the entirety of my adult life as a woman, as the girl next door, as a co-worker, as a daughter, as a friend and as a wife.

Why anyone would "want" to be trans completely escapes me but it happens and is real. My history is living proof of that. With my credibility established, I can say with a high degree of certainty that people like me aren't responsible for the collapse of anyone's empire.

a reply to: Freija

I have no words left...

a reply to: anonentity

Transgenders aren't going to hurt anyone other than the gross out factor.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Transgenders aren't going to hurt anyone other than the gross out factor.

I should be in bed but I can't resist...






Yeah, totally gross!

a reply to: Freija

The gross part is that they are men not what they look like.

a reply to: anonentity

Don't be ridiculous. Civilizations come to an end when cheeses are no longer in enormous blocks, but come in tinier and tinier individually wrapped portions.

The downfall of America in the 21st century is clearly indicated by Kraft Singles.

It's not transgenderism per se that is the problem that has caused societies to fall.

It is a pointer though that for some reason mankind cannot get past transgender and gay issues without losing the plot and then collapsing.

Personally I point the finger at the ultra conservative brain. For some reason, people of said disposition are great at creating cohesive society through violence and forced single viewpoint will. However they cannot accept diversity of any form. ISIS would be the most current and obvious form of this kind of mindset I speak of. Their caliphate is exactly the sort of foundation many societies in the past were built on.

Just one of humanity's many weaknesses that we are yet to learn how to overcome I guess

a reply to: Metallicus


They are not men, They are definiaty female, It wouldnt bother me in the slightest.In fact I date the blond one in a heartbeat. If it looks like a female and smells like a female, its female. But thats not what we are talking about. Mabey its something to do with society being to up tight in Victorian times, just about right in the sixties, but its all going a bit to far now, because intimacy with a human has to have some emotional attachement, but its all sexual display, one night stands std's emotional confusion. No one knows whether they are Authur or martha.Because the role models are breaking down. Home and family are a past pipedream, and the headonism is a drug with limited kick value.Whats next when you've done it all. It might be fun but its gonna be a short one.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: anonentity

Reminds me of this quote:
"All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players; They have their exits and their entrances, And one man in his time plays many parts, His acts being seven ages. At first, the infant, Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms."

Now you have Shakespeare 'playing with his parts' (both exits and entrances no less!), and having 'nurse' and paedophile fantasies.

What is this world coming to! (damn it, now I'm doing double-entendre as well).

originally posted by: Metallicus
a reply to: Freija

The gross part is that they are men not what they look like.

I know from several past encounters that you just don't get this. I guarantee you these people are not men. Granted, they may have invisible genetic markers or may have lived parts of their lives in the gender role of their natal sex but "men"? No way.

Take me for example and particularly any of the genuinely trans kids of today that have transitioned. We don't grow up to be men in the first place. I may have had male parts at one time in my youth but I've definitely never been or lived as a man and I was never regular boy either even though my parents tried to make me one until they realized that it was hopeless and that just wasn't what I was.

So yes, if you have a laboratory and a microscope, a genetic test would show that I am XY but what the hell does that matter in the real world? If you didn't know because I told you, I could take off all my clothes and you would have no idea that I wasn't born female. This whole ick factor is your problem, not mine.

originally posted by: anonentity

.... Mabey its something to do with society being to up tight in Victorian times, just about right in the sixties, but its all going a bit to far now, because intimacy with a human has to have some emotional attachement, but its all sexual display, one night stands std's emotional confusion. No one knows whether they are Authur or martha.Because the role models are breaking down. Home and family are a past pipedream, and the headonism is a drug with limited kick value.Whats next when you've done it all. It might be fun but its gonna be a short one.

OMG! The sky is falling! You have bigger issues than just transgender people. The world changes. Some people can't keep up. Longing for life in the Ozzie and Harriett 1950's is a surefire way to make your current life miserable.

i love threads like this one.
all i have to do is *exist* and the greatest war machine in history comes crumbling down?
what a powerful feeling!

originally posted by: continuousThunder
i love threads like this one.
all i have to do is *exist* and the greatest war machine in history comes crumbling down?
what a powerful feeling!

I know, right?

PS - check your private messages. I sent you one on 2/25 and it still shows unread. I don't even remember what I said but I was probably trying to be nice? Hopefully, anyway!

I don't think I will ever understand transgenders, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm a man. I don't feel like a man though, I just feel like me. What does it even mean to feel like a particular gender. I may do things which are masculine, I may have masculine tendancies, but aren't those just social constructs based on what people with penises "tend" to be like?

So how can someone be born a man, but "feel" like they are a woman. There's no set of feelings that equates to being a woman. Femininity is just the social construct of all of the collective activites of the vagina people. If suddenly, overnight, all women decided that actually they all loved, I don't know, mechanics, mechanics would become something that defined femininity.

But, anyway. I would never want to impose anything on others. Just because I don't, won't or can't understand, doesn't mean anyone else shouldn't do what makes them happy.

More power to yas.

Oh and on the topic, I think that hyper sexualisation of society is an effect of opulence. Opulence is an effect of an unbalanced society, where there are haves and have nots. So it would make sense to me that past civilisations would have failed at around the same time they started to explore sexuality and the arts etc. as it marks a time in society where people can afford the time to be unproductive, but to explore their own priveleged place in the world and it's this privelege that will eventually be destroyed by those with none.

a reply to: Abysha

Camile is a fine feminist. One I can respect even when I disagree with her on some things.

You have issues with her because she's not third wave crazy.

A wise man once said "we all have our problems"

One thing that has really opened my mind to things that I just don't understand is coming down with clinical depression.

When I try to explain it to people and they counter with their "wisdom" about things that just don't apply; I don't get angry, I just say "you wouldn't understand until you experience it and I hope you never do"

Before I experienced this (age 23) I likely would have been one of those people who spouted off ignorant things about issues such as this.

So yeah, I am a man in a man's body and have no idea of what it would be like any other way. So I have to take the experiences of others who have not shared this same existence at face value and listen to what they have to say. I am in no place to comment because I haven't gone through what they have. So I guess having clinical depression has made me a better person? Food for thought anyways.....

a reply to: Dem0nc1eaner

For the record, I mainly agree with you.



I think this song addresses it to some degree. We blow these issues up into major catastrophes, but if we were back on a survival footing to even the smallest degree, none of it would matter. If we actually had to spend time bringing in a harvest, do you think anyone would spend time griping about what gender anyone felt like? Or worrying about the plight of the spotted wood owl in some far flung place? Or having vapors over whether or not it was a few scintillas of a degree warmer, cooler, wetter or dryer this year than last and maybe there is no more ice in the arctic?

And we wouldn't have time to become preoccupied with finding the perfect half-caff, soy fair trade lattes in the city. Nor would we be searching for the best grass fed beef, deep bedded no antibiotic pork artisan bacon with a side of free range vegan chicken eggs for our breakfasts and then complaining about how much it all costs.

No.

Because instead of being unnecessarily decadent and hedonistic, we'd be forced to focus in on what really matters.

Insurance Man: Thank you Ripley, that will be all.
Ripley: [aggravated] Goddammit, that's not all! 'Cause if one of those things gets down here then that *will* be all! And all this...
[Ripley grabs up a few pieces of paper]
Ripley: This *bull#* you think is so important...
[Ripley tosses the paper, scattering them]
Ripley: You can just kiss all of that goodbye!

-- Aiiens

We haven't been really challenged in so long that we are making up our challenges now.

a reply to: deuceawesome

Yes, you can go that route.

I have chronic migraine.

You can get all mad at people who don't understand and don't want to, or you can learn to accept that it is what it is and to a certain extent you will have to shape your life as it is to accommodate that most people, thankfully, do not have to go through what you do. And do you really want them to?

originally posted by: Dem0nc1eaner
I don't think I will ever understand transgenders, it just doesn't make sense to me.

I'm a man. I don't feel like a man though, I just feel like me. What does it even mean to feel like a particular gender. I may do things which are masculine, I may have masculine tendancies, but aren't those just social constructs based on what people with penises "tend" to be like?

I know what makes me feel like a man are certain primal instincts. Mainly protecting and providing for family. Especially very basic things that once upon a time were crucial to our survival as a species; as an example I have started cutting my own firewood for winter heat. I have a propane furnace so it's not necessary, but I get a certain satisfaction out of doing it myself.

Breadwinning used to be what we did but now that has changed. My wife makes more money that I do and Im not going to lie somehow, someway in my primitive mind that bugs me. Obviously that's irrational and I quickly point that out to myself whenever the thought comes up, but its still there.

Protection. Im not sure if anyone knows what I mean by this but if there is ever a perceived threat to a loved one an adrenaline rush comes over you and you are ready to battle. I don't think I would feel any pain at all if I had to defend my wife/mother/father/sister/dog. I have yet to and hopefully never will, but its interesting how that is hardwired into my cave man brain.

A little off topic but...some geico insight into my modern man brain.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: deuceawesome

Yes, you can go that route.

I have chronic migraine.

You can get all mad at people who don't understand and don't want to, or you can learn to accept that it is what it is and to a certain extent you will have to shape your life as it is to accommodate that most people, thankfully, do not have to go through what you do. And do you really want them to?

Funny you mention that. Growing up my younger sister got migraines and she would be bedridden. Naturally I used to make fun of her for being a "whimp" and "it's just a headache get over yourself"

Once day in my early twenties I thought something was wrong with my brain. My skull felt like it was collapsing and I could hardly keep my eyes open. A visit to the hospital later and I was informed that I had a "migraine".

Ohhhhhhhhh.......

I called my sister and apologized for being a dick.