Trangender Bathroom and Locker Room Useage at Public Schools - New Federal Guidelines.

a reply to: carewemust

Is it correct and proper for Buck Angel to share a bathroom with girls?

Brought over from other thread, response from kaylaluv:

I think that if a trans female who looks more like a girl than a boy goes into the men's room, she is very likely to get attacked or raped, but if a trans female goes into the men's room, you might have a couple of women who get a little uncomfortable. Uncomfortable vs attacked/raped? Gee, which is more important?

I'm not talking about bathrooms. The problem is locker rooms and showers. It's arguable that restrooms with privacy stalls solve the problem, but that does not stop the voyeurs that would take advantage to claim transexuality and invade the privacy of the women. And it's the creeps we want to keep out of opposite bathrooms.

What about those 25% of women in college that liberals claim have been the victim of sexual assault*? Is their discomfort a non-issue for you, hmmm?

Some states don't care if a trans female takes her life in her hands every time she goes into the men's room. But those same states care very deeply if a non-trans person gets a little "uncomfortable". I call that discrimination.

So the alternative is to pander to a mental delusion. Right.

States care about what offers the most benefit for the most people. The comfort and security of the majority trumps the delusions of a fraction of society so small it isn't even a rounding error.

*It's a crap statistic, but I like using it against liberal arguments.

a reply to: carewemust

It only seems like a simple thing because obviously you are not capable of complex thought.

Maybe take the time to go back and read my posts in this thread. It won't help but maybe it will delay you from posting any further # about something you don't understand and are probably are unwilling to learn about?

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: carewemust

Is it correct and proper for Buck Angel to share a bathroom with girls?

I just looked up Buck Angel to see who he was. Buck is too old to be in a Public School.. (probably).

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: carewemust

Is it correct and proper for Buck Angel to share a bathroom with girls?

It would have been correct and proper for doctors to have said 'No' to Buck Angel before she disfigured her body with surgery and hormones.

But it's too late for that now. You put forth a scenario that is very difficult to be correct and proper for all participants. Since she isn't going to be standing up, most likely using a toilet stall, go ahead and use the men's bathroom. Showers and locker rooms are more problematic and are the crux of the freakshow this whole topic creates.

Yes, I said freakshow.

originally posted by: Freija
a reply to: carewemust

It only seems like a simple thing because obviously you are not capable of complex thought.

Maybe take the time to go back and read my posts in this thread. It won't help but maybe it will delay you from posting any further # about something you don't understand and are probably are unwilling to learn about?

You're right, Freija. At this point, I don't care enough about this common-sense issue to investigate any further.

Just let each public school decide how it wants to approach the transgender issue. If a parent doesn't like it, that parent can send his/her student to a school that is more "favorable" to them, or home-school the student. From what I've read, the new secretary of Education (Betsy DeVos) is great for parents who want flexibility.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

This is a word I never use but is appropriate in this case. You have well established yourself as a hater and a propagator of lies and half truths. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when your obsession with this topic seems to border on a mental health problem itself?

You are willfully ignorant, refuse to listen to anyone or consider what science and medicine has to say about this issue and are nothing but an agitator. I'm sure you feel justified in this somehow but it is so very tiresome especially when in the face legitimate information, you blindly refuse to budge from your crusade.

I'm sure you're teaching your young son to be a fine human being.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

By using that word you've lost all credibility.

a reply to: carewemust

I just looked up Buck Angel to see who he was. Buck is too old to be in a Public School.. (probably).

Just looked at the thread title and the OP you're right. This is about public schools. My point still stands though.

originally posted by: carewemust
You're right, Freija. At this point, I don't care enough about this common-sense issue to investigate any further.

But yet you cared enough to post your uninformed opinion on this topic.

Just let each public school decide how it wants to approach the transgender issue. If a parent doesn't like it, that parent can send his/her student to a school that is more "favorable" to them, or home-school the student. From what I've read, the new secretary of Education (Betsy DeVos) is great for parents who want flexibility.

Why should parents have to shop around when something like this should be a standardized policy?

I think we shouldn't make it an issue of genitalia.
That is easy to hide.

Ultimately we don't want a Samantha Fox (God, my age) in the men's locker room.
The make-up, the hair, the buxom beauty.

It's supposed to be a non-sexual space.

And although it will only effect 0.5 of the population - isn't that the crux?

We want to keep gendered spaces non-sexual.

In that sense, I reiterate, with a true transsexual, I wouldn't have a problem.
"She" would look like a man.

But we also don't want some pervert slamming on lipstick, and now he gets to check out all the girls.

Hence I argue, we need a tribunal with both transgender and cisgender members on a case by case basis.

a reply to: halfoldman

But we also don't want some pervert slamming on lipstick, and now he gets to check out all the girls.

What people don't understand is that we TRULY UNDERSTAND your fear. No matter the law, there will always be perverts. We already have laws against that. The fear is unfounded. It's mainly from AFA and Focus on Family.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

There will always be perverts but the fear is unfounded?

a reply to: halfoldman

The fear about transgender people? Yes unfounded. There has never been any case of transgender people doing "pervy" things.

a reply to: Deaf Alien

I know.

But others with perverted intent may copy them.

How do we know?

And that's an issue for everyone, trans or cisgender.

a reply to: halfoldman

I know it's an issue. But the fact that nobody had any problem with it for a long time and transgender people will continue to use bathrooms of their choice, regardless of the law. The fear is coming from the far right evangelical Christians. Don't forget that they have a fear about the gay folks. Most people couldn't care less about those folks.

a reply to: Freija

Totally agree with everything you just posted here.

Some people will never, ever be open-minded enough to learn about something foreign to them. Some people just want to hate anything that is "different" from them. Some people hate the transgender community enough to want to take away their rights to life and safety. All under the pretense of "our wimmin folk are in danger!" It's all crap because the states and cities that have these non-discrimination laws already in place have not seen an increase in privacy and safety issues/crimes. If a guy in a dress goes into a woman's (or girl's) bathroom or locker room or shower and starts taking pictures of naked women, or acts in any way inappropriately, it can be reported and dealt with, because those actions are not tolerated. Just as it's always been. That applies to other women too.

a reply to: halfoldman

the problem here is where do you draw your line to define what's acceptably feminine for a trans woman?
how do you tell if someone is 'copying' trans people? you can't ask them, of course they'll say they are.
Must we enforce an arbitrary standard of 'female enough'?
i know SO many cis women who would come under scrutiny - women with facial hair, extremely buff women, short haired makeup eschewing dykes - people fit stereotypical gender ideas a lot less than you'd expect, so how do you decide?

just to muddy the water a little further, i am what you would call a 'real' trans woman - i wear a lot of makeup, my mannerisms, my voice, my presentation are all extremely feminine, most people i meet never even guess i'm trans.... but that didn't happen overnight. it's not like you flip a switch.
There was a period of more than a year where i didn't look like i fit anywhere, and due to where i lived i got beaten in public on multiple occasions for offences like going to the store for bread. What would you say we do there? would i have to use the mens, and face who knows how many beatings in dingy toilets for a year until i reach a standard of Girl Enough to prove i was a woman all along?
at the end of that year, would i have to take a test?
who should decide?

when we try to pull it apart, this becomes a very very complicated issue that in reality has nothing at all to do with bathrooms.
a little compassion though, that's a simple answer and it goes a LONG way.

That crap has to stop.

Men go to the mens room

Women to the womens room

END OF FING PROBLEM.

a reply to: PillarOfFire

Yep. Women includes trans women using the women's room, and men includes trans men using the men's room.

Yep. End of problem.