Trangender Bathroom and Locker Room Useage at Public Schools - New Federal Guidelines.

originally posted by: halfoldman

Validate the true trans person, and weed out the chancers.

Do, we Validate, label, and weed out the Bigots in a mixed race school?

How about the xenophobes in an ethnically mixed school.

a reply to: Annee

If they behave in a bigoted fashion, yes actually they do.
Here (in SA), even on social media.
A bigoted Facebook post can cost you your entire existence.
And you can be dragged before an inquisition of sorts.
Never mind schools.

Not that I'm saying people should be bigoted.
But rules are rules for everyone.
There's a sign on a door, and not everyone can go in there.
If there must be exceptions, so be it.
But not everybody can go where they please.
I can't.
If I go in the women's locker-room I'll get arrested.
And rightfully so - I'm not female or transgendered.
If you want to waver that right in some circumstances, then validate it.
What's so wrong with that?

originally posted by: halfoldman

There's a sign on a door, and not everyone can go in there.
If there must be exceptions, so be it.
But not everybody can go where they please.
I can't.
If I go in the women's locker-room I'll get arrested.
And rightfully so - I'm not female or transgendered.
If you want to waver that right in some circumstances, then validate it.
What's so wrong with that?

What you're missing is a Transgender Woman IS a Woman - - even if the packaging isn't.

The brain tells you who you are - - not your packaging.

a reply to: Annee

I'm not missing anything.

For men I said a buddy IS a buddy.
Trans or not.
My focus is not on femininity.
What I'm trying to do is carve a sensible way forward.

And now that it's all thrust into the political open and arena, let everyone in a community have their say.
And I bet if the undecided majority actually had to meet a trans person (not just bandying about abstract, blanket terms), a lot of the hysteria will go away.

That's my team-mate - to me he is male.
He's a dude.
I wouldn't feel uncomfortable.
I will testify.
Those small voices must also be heard.

Well, they already feel differentiated anyway, or they wouldn't be labelled "trans".
I want to sensibly incorporate their differentiability.

originally posted by: halfoldman
. . . let everyone in a community have their say.

Let's stand you up in the middle of the room and discuss you.

a reply to: Annee

Depends how it's done.

That is also the question to me.

But if you apply for a job, if you screw up on ATS - everywhere somebody is discussing somebody.

I'm not suggesting wham!
Put them in a cellar and shine a torchlight in their eyes.

There will be other trans people.
Simply assessing isn't hostile.

However, the other route - in fact the way it's going now, which simply says throw open the locker rooms; it's not helpful.
Wider society will panic and revolt.
We must think of them also.

We're taking a very unique state of being - two spirit people, who pose no harm to anyone, and creating such a big fury about it.
But I also understand that society is not happy about their locker-rooms being open.
That's the impression they have, and it seems to be what the radical left wants.
No compromise will do for leftist fascists.
People are worried about their kids.
Creating a fight, where there actually shouldn't be a fight.

a reply to: proteus33

yes, actual violence. you responded to my post so i *assume* you read the part about how i used to get attacked just going to the corner shop?

and uh... you do realise that a trans girl on hrt will have breasts too, right? that from the point she gets on treatment, she will develop the same as any cis girl? that, until she's actually naked, you won't be able to tell that she's not?
you rant about horny little toads, if you know anything about boys at all you would know that her still having a penis would NOT make her safe. more the literal exact opposite.

you can be as "well do you not think" as much as you want but you don't seem to be getting that this isn't hypotheticals we're talking about here, we are talking about my real genuine life experience.... i've lived this! i have the scars to prove it! what makes you feel qualified to talk over me about my own damn life?

a reply to: halfoldman

you're still going on about the "truly transgendered" like we're a separate species,
do you care to address the questions i raised in my last post a couple of pages ago?
ignoring all these pertinent points in favour of continuing to rail against the 'radical left' is disingenuous in the extreme.

a reply to: continuousThunder

Why do you have a special name then, and category you're trumpeting?

Isn't it a bit disingenuous to say this is my uniform (and I bet it's gorgeous), but if there's something I don't like then I'm just a citizen?

(Just to the poster - I know trans people who would also disagree with them).

Let me say this: what's being argued, and the repercussions there-of is ostensibly about trans people.
However, the social repercussions that most people are worried about have little to nothing to do with trans people.

But everything is framed in such a way that it seems like the end of civilization.
It's one fist against another.
Are we helping or making it worse?

You can slam a moderate, like me.
If it makes you happy.
But tomorrow you will still feel sad.
Ooh - I feel a song coming on ...

a reply to: halfoldman

i'm sorry, your post doesn't have anything to do with anything i said and i can't even really tell what you're trying to say.
do you need me to copy my post and refresh your mind on the questions?

originally posted by: halfoldman

But everything is framed in such a way that it seems like the end of civilization.

yes, one side of this ""debate"" is framing it as if it's the end of civilisation to let trans people pee.

the other side would just like to be allowed to pee and go about our business without being beaten up or murdered or having our basic humanity treated as something that's fair game for any random stranger on the internet to debate the validity of.

a reply to: continuousThunder

No, I'm fine with my points of view.
You keep rocking - when it suits you.

But a big question is this - are we expecting (indeed inviting) Big Government to rule on affairs that should be local and communal?

I don't know every trans person?
I don't know every hetrosexual man or woman either.

How can anyone say this must be an imposed policy this way or that way without community input?
Going back to schools.

originally posted by: halfoldman
a reply to: continuousThunder

No, I'm fine with my points of view.
You keep rocking - when it suits you.

can you really call it a point of view when what you're doing is literally ignoring facts presented to you in order to continue pushing a flawed narrative?
i mean, sure you can, people do that all the time, but it's a very ignorant practice and goes pretty damn hard against that bit a couple of posts ago where you called yourself a moderate.

a reply to: continuousThunder

What facts have I ignored?
Please list them.

Not sure why you're turning on me specifically.

I never said anything nasty about anybody.

Hope it's not up to you to make friends and influence people though.
But we all have our Kathy Bates moments.

originally posted by: Freija
a reply to: Teikiatsu

This is a word I never use but is appropriate in this case. You have well established yourself as a hater and a propagator of lies and half truths. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when your obsession with this topic seems to border on a mental health problem itself?

You call me a hater. I call it realism. I'm not the one living in a bubble of distortion. I don't hate people who claim to be transexual. I do pity them.

Any grown human who wants to expose themselves to children of the opposite gender in a locker room or shower because it would make them feel more comfortable is (in my opinion) a freak. Anyone who says that those children need to grow up and deal with the 'new reality' is a child abuser.

I'm not interested in dancing around the issue right now. It's a freakshow.

You are willfully ignorant,

I am willfully realist. Biology is a science. Chromosomes are science.

refuse to listen to anyone or consider what science and medicine has to say about this issue

I refuse to listen to your experts, because the people you call 'experts' are quacks. They tell you the things you *want* to hear instead of the things you *need* to hear.

We are born in male or female bodies. Society and culture influence what is masculine and feminine.

Those are facts.

'Feeling male' or 'feeling female' are body image issues.

Here's what the medical doctors I choose to listen to have to say about it. I don't expect you to agree with them:

"A person’s belief that he or she is something they are not is, at best, a sign of confused thinking. When an otherwise healthy biological boy believes he is a girl, or an otherwise healthy biological girl believes she is a boy, an objective psychological problem exists that lies in the mind not the body, and it should be treated as such." - American College of Pediatrics

and are nothing but an agitator.

Yes, truth and science can agitate people.

I'm sure you feel justified in this somehow but it is so very tiresome especially when in the face legitimate information, you blindly refuse to budge from your crusade.

Tiresome? Crusade? Hyperbole much?

Legitimate information? People who claim to be transexual can't even describe how they know what it feels like to be the opposite gender, or what their point of reference is. No one ever answers that question, present company included.

Any medical professional who supports the idea that a man can feel like a woman, or vice versa, should lose their license. Their first rule is to do no harm. When dealing with mental delusions, reinforcing the lie is harmful.

I'm sure you're teaching your young son to be a fine human being.

I am actually. He will also be able to think critically and recognize mental delusions. He will also know not to pick on those people or instigate violence or else he will know my wrath.

But I expect you think that last part was supposed to shame me or something.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Teikiatsu

By using that word you've lost all credibility.

No, not really but I know it makes you feel better to say so.

Only ladies, trannies and Scotsmen may pee here.


Just a joke.
Jeepers, chill people.

The rest of us just find a bush.

originally posted by: halfoldman
But a big question is this - are we expecting (indeed inviting) Big Government to rule on affairs that should be local and communal?

I live in Phoenix, AZ, also known as the Valley of the Sun. As one big contiguous huge city, we have Mesa, Tempe, Scottsdale, Chandler, Gilbert, Avondale, Sunnyslope, El Mirage, Laveen, Litchfield, Paradise Valley and a few others I can't remember off the top of my head. Most of these communities have their own school districts. All have strict boundaries where your kids can enroll in school. Tempe is the only city I know for sure that has specific anti-discrimination trans and LGB policies.

State employees and only state employees are covered under anti-discrimination policies covering sexual orientation but not gender identity/expression. In the private sector, you can be fired from your job or denied housing, credit, etc., or denied services for being LGBT. You can get legally same-sex married on Sunday and go to work on Monday and get fired for being gay.

Can you imagine the flustercluck if each district has different policies for transgender students? When Obama's guidance was in effect, things were uniform and standardized across the board. Although most schools have inclusive and anti-bullying policies and do handle things on an individual basis, why should families have to move if one district treats their transgender children better or worse than another?

On a more macro level, the way transgender students are handled varies from state to state so in somewhere like North Carolina for example, there's nowhere in the state where trans kids can use the bathroom right for them. I sometimes think given the chance, some parts of this country would reenact slavery given the chance. You don't live here and possibly don't understand how divided politically and ideologically parts of this country are. It is scary.

Equality needs to come from the top down and be the same for everyone in this country. That can only be done at the Federal level because if left up to the states or local communities, it won't get done.

To non-trans people and to those that have never been close to someone trans, I get the impression that people think bathrooms are the single most important thing in the world to the people that are trans. Sure, it's an issue for some but most have bigger, more important and more real problems to worry about.

a reply to: Freija

No, it's the social progressive march to destroy society and common sense (and call it equality) that we care about, not where people pee.

It's just that social progressive's current ADHD agenda issue is to let grown men walk around naked in front of girls (and try to shame people who have a problem with that), so it gets a little more attention and resistance.