Lost Technologies of the Pyramid Builders - Possible Evidence for Acoustic Engineering in Aswan

originally posted by: Marduk

But hey, do you have any evidence that they were carved acoustically, apart from your brilliant as demonstrated in this thread "intuition", you know any real evidence that doesn't require anyone with any common sense to ignore whats staring them in the face. Like why were the dolerite pounders "littering" the floor around the obelisk, can you at least explain that ?

Let's consider this to be an alternative explanation for the quarry marks since the dolorite ball explanation doesn't "cut it" for me (again, pun intended). The tangible "evidence" are the marks and the uncanny resemblance to the Chladni figures/vibration patterns.

Do the dolorite balls occur naturally in the bedrock at the Aswan quarry? That could explain why they're available in abundance there. AE could of course have used them for some minor stonework but IMO not for those particular spots where the patterns occur.

And by the way, I take your suggestion to work for DIsney as a compliment!

originally posted by: SargonThrall I do believe there was a legend that Khufu required help from the priesthood (read: scientists) to construct the pyramids....

The Oxford History of Ancient Egypt. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0-19-815034-2.
States that the architect was his vizier Hemon, or Hemiunu and viziers in that period were exclusively members of the Royal family, not priests, you may be confusing that with Djosers pyramid which was allegedly designed by the priest Imhotep, yeah him, the one that Hollywood won't let die.

originally posted by: jeep3r

Let's consider this to be an alternative explanation for the quarry marks since the dolorite ball explanation doesn't "cut it" for me (again, pun intended). The tangible "evidence" are the marks and the uncanny resemblance to the Chladni figures/vibration patterns.

Right and with your families ancestral tradition and the decades you yourself have worked in a stone quarry if you say it can't be done, well that's expert testimony. Unfortunately, experimental archaeology has shown exactly how they were used and how it was done with dolerite pounders, so to recap

Ignore the tools found next to the Obelisk
Ignore the testimony of the Egyptians themselves
Ignore the expert testimony of Egyptologists
Ignore the expert testimony of experimental archaeologists who have reproduced the effect using the same pounders
and then here you come with your idea, which has no support whatsoever and is in fact quite ludicrous
I'm all for new idea, but usually I draw the line at good ones, so feel free to consider it an alternate explanation which at no point is actually required if you want to and can I have some of what you are smoking please

Do the dolorite balls occur naturally in the bedrock at the Aswan quarry? That could explain why they're available in abundance there. AE could of course have used them for some minor stonework but IMO not for those particular spots where the patterns occur.

Dolerite doesn't occur naturally as pounders no, its a volcanic rock, it occurs in the same sort of deposit that other rocks occur in. Large ones, made of rock. You're new at this aren't you


and Disney yes, you have quite the imagination, so I did mean it as a compliment, never let it be said that the imagination isn't important, but really, do yourself a favour, if you are going to use it, make sure that you have at least studied the culture and their quarrying techniques properly before rushing to press.

a reply to: Argentbenign

After building structures perfectly aligned with the heavens, which have stood for 4000 years (the biggest indicator), the Egyptians, who recorded every aspect of their lives, magically forgot to record how to build these structures -- and so reverted to step pyramids and mound building with basic mud.

This suggests the Egyptians didn't build the 4th dynasty pyramids at all.

It is more plausible the 4th dynasty pyramids were "found" and settled around. Which would date them to before 8000 BC, when "civilization" sprung up in Egypt, and then they produced copycat structures without the same technology.

a reply to: jeep3r

Let's consider this to be an alternative explanation for the quarry marks

Let's not.

Your critics on this thread so far have been explaining that your archaeological suppositions are false. I sm here to tell you your ideas of acoustics ate fantasy, too.

Acoustic levitation is certainly possible. However, the force generated ('radiation pressure') is a function of known variables. These are various characteristics of the vibrating medium (air), the loudness of the sound and the levitating height. You will find the formula on p.2 here if you are curious. Plug any realistic values you like into the equation and you will find that acoustic levitation can be used to lift objects weighing a few kilogrammes at most: air isn't dense enough, and cannot be agitated hard (ie 'loud') enough to lift anything heavier.

Even an object weighing a few kg can only be levitated if it's in the shape of a flat, thin plate -- and the transducer (speaker) creating the sound waves is placed directly underneath.

So I'm afraid there is no way ancient monumental blocks could have been levitated into place. You may argue all you please with archaeology, but you can't argue with physics.

originally posted by: rounda
It is more plausible the 4th dynasty pyramids were "found" and settled around. Which would date them to before 8000 BC, when "civilization" sprung up in Egypt, and then they produced copycat structures without the same technology.

and then the Egyptians took all the buildings apart, including all the temples and the pyramids, so that they could rebuild them, so that they could put in samples of organic material which could be radiocarbon dated using technology that they didn't know existed, what you didn't know we have hundreds of sample dates from pretty much every monument in Egypt, which all correlate with when we know the Egyptians were there.

then they constructed workers villages to make it look like they built them
Then they exported the finished product to the rest of the world, who apparently, hadn't seen any of the pyramids you were claiming were there for 3000 years already while the Egyptians moved in

You haven't studied this culture at all have you, did you read a book by Graham Hancock and get a bit dizzy ?

originally posted by: jeep3r
a reply to: Marduk

I'm not disputing that AE's were using stone balls to shape some of their artwork, but did they create those particular patterns in Aswan with diorite balls? I'm not so sure and one would think they'd have pounded away those edges, for sure.

What you see there is the surface that they were preparing - AND- it's also the surface left after they took out a block (or many blocks) above it. We see the same marks in every single quarry. I saw them at Luxor and at Giza.

The guides were happy to demonstrate the technique.

The dimples aren't as regular as the pictures would make you think. They're sited next to each other, but are irregular in depth and in size.

Creating those squar'ish patterns via pounding alone would require doing it in the same spot by each worker. But that doesn't really make sense IMO if you can get rid of the bevelled edges in the same process without much extra effort. That would probably also make it easier to do the finer work and polishing of the surface afterwards.

What they're doing is starting to make a level surface. They can't saw something that big, so they pound it flat-ish, pound the little lumps down, and then sand it.

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: Argentbenign

After building structures perfectly aligned with the heavens, which have stood for 4000 years (the biggest indicator), the Egyptians, who recorded every aspect of their lives, magically forgot to record how to build these structures -- and so reverted to step pyramids and mound building with basic mud.

This suggests the Egyptians didn't build the 4th dynasty pyramids at all..

Have you forgotten Djoser's step pyramids and the 3 or 4 by Sneferu and his predecessor plus the one by Djedefre (Khufu's son, now in ruins) and the ones of Pepi and Teti and Meryenre and so forth? That was 4th-6th dynasty.

Then the economy collapsed and the lineage of 6th dynasty pharaohs ended, leaving the land in chaos. In the struggle as to who would rule (North or South - Thebes versus Memphis), nobody built pyramids. The big pyramids were robbed (which was a problem for the priests) and rather than having a huge "YOU CAN ROB THIS ONE. LOADS OF TREASURE HERE!" pyramid, they went to more secure tombs in Thebes with mortuary temples in Dier-El-Bahri.

Because there's no point in building a huge pyramid if it invites people to come and rob you and burn your mummy (per trial records in the New Kingdom) to get at the gold trinkets in your wrappings. That destroyed your body and left your ka and ba without a home.

a reply to: Marduk

Last I checked, carbon dating rock didn't work.

a reply to: Byrd

"...3 or 4 by Sneferu and his predecessor"

4th dynasty pyramids...

And the great pyramid, with no inscriptions of who built it, for whom, and when, also didn't contain a mummy.

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: Marduk

Last I checked, carbon dating rock didn't work.

They aren't carbon dating the rock.

The pyramids have mortar holding the rock together, and that was made with organic material. They took a sample of wood fragments in the mortar and analyzed tht.

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: Marduk

Last I checked, carbon dating rock didn't work.

Yeah, that's why they carbon dated the wood remains in the mortar, that must be when they took everything apart and rebuilt it because as you said, they didn't have the know how to build pyramids, just the basic know how to completely disassemble and then reassemble them

You'd know that if you knew anything about this subject at all...
Here's your chance to learn
journals.uair.arizona.edu...
But I don't suppose you'll be interested because as you said, you can't carbon date stone
lol

originally posted by: rounda
And the great pyramid, with no inscriptions of who built it, for whom, and when, also didn't contain a mummy.

In case you weren't aware, no pyramid had inscriptions in it until the fifth dynasty and they were all robbed in antiquity, when the mummy and the rest of the grave goods were stolen. Mummies were often wrapped with valuable objects in the wrappings...

It did have two burial chambers, a sarcophagus and was built in the middle of a Necropolis, a necropolis is a huge graveyard, a city for the dead. But yanno, don't worry about the actual evidence...

a reply to: Byrd

In 1984, carbon dating said the great pyramid was 10,000 years old, and even then, carbon dating is not accurate.

More accurate is the progression of technology over hundreds of years. Which we do not see in the pyramid timeline.

a reply to: Marduk

In case you weren't aware, no pyramid had inscriptions in it until the fifth dynasty and they were all robbed in antiquity, when the mummy and the rest of the grave goods were stolen. Mummies were often wrapped with valuable objects in the wrappings...

You mean like the relief of King Djoser running for the Hebsed celebration, found in the subterranean chambers of the Pyramid of Djoser? Or the statue of King Djoser found in the complex?

Or like the Menkuare Pyramid, with a sarcophagus and human remains that don't match the timeline, as radio carbon dating shows they are less than 2000 years old?

Or the Red Pyramid, in which no trace of a burial has ever been found?

Sorry, bud, your timeline is incorrect.

The 4th dynasty pyramids are far older than egyptologists claim. The rest are copycats.

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: Marduk

You mean like the relief of King Djoser running for the Hebsed celebration, found in the subterranean chambers of the Pyramid of Djoser? Or the statue of King Djoser found in the complex?

lol that's not even in the pyramid

originally posted by: roundaOr like the Menkuare Pyramid, with a sarcophagus and human remains that don't match the timeline, as radio carbon dating shows they are less than 2000 years old??

There's this thing called later inhumation... not heard of it, should do more research then...

originally posted by: roundaOr the Red Pyramid, in which no trace of a burial has ever been found??

Yup, amazing, When you say not found, why didn't you just say "empty", then we can compare it to all three Gizamids, oh yes you were trying to avoid that, lol

originally posted by: roundaThe 4th dynasty pyramids are far older than egyptologists claim. The rest are copycats.

Like the quarry marks in the GP which attest it was built by Khufus gang, (Try to answer this without quoting Zechariah Sitchin, bet you can't)

and you know what I mean, the pyramids of the fifth dynasty were adorned with the book of the dead, that started in the fifth dynasty
and you didn't explain how the carbon dates prove you wrong
is it going to be
1, most successful conspiracy to hide the truth of all time carried out by people who got into the business to uncover it
2, carbon dates are wrong ?

Because I can tell you, that both those answers are easily debunked nonsense and again, you don't seem to understand what you are talking about. These ideas of yours are like pyramidiocy 101, they have been shown to be fallacious so many times already I wonder why you still think ground that weak is going to convince anyone who knows anything about the culture at all, or are you just relying on peoples ignorance in this forum, gotta tell you, that's an error...
Even Graham Hancock believes that Khufu built it
"For the record I believe that Khufu did build the Great Pyramid – or anyway most of it (perhaps the subterranean chamber and some other rock-hewn parts of the structure may be earlier)."
Noone is really denying Khufu did it anymore, evidence keeps turning up, which is damning to any other claim...

But feel free to do as much research as it takes to prove me wrong, you got a few years free right ?
this might help
www.catchpenny.org...

a reply to: jeep3r

Interesting comparisons, to be sure! I wonder if we will ever know for certain.

The only other hypothesis I have ever heard on the topic is from a man who moved large blocks by himself, using very simple methods, sticks and rocks, as I recall, and was able to move some fairly large ones. Whether or not that would translate over for the truly megalithic blocks, I don't know. No one in recent times has tried it, as far as I know!

originally posted by: rounda
a reply to: Byrd

In 1984, carbon dating said the great pyramid was 10,000 years old, and even then, carbon dating is not accurate.

The 1984 assay contained no such date.
Apparently, you think it's fine to just fabricate facts when you don't know any.

Harte

a reply to: jeep3r

Hi jeep3r!

This topic is something that keeps me interested. It reminded me of an older thread here that talked about large tuning forks being used...you might find it interesting. Title and link are below.


"This is How the Ancients Moved, Cut and Engraved Great Blocks with Such Precision. No Aliens, sorry."
www.abovetopsecret.com...

S&F...Will be checking back, it's a fascinating topic.
jacy

Some interesting facts about this dolerite mumbo jumbo:

ancientegyptiantechnologies.uk...

originally posted by: jovan
Some interesting facts about this dolerite mumbo jumbo:

ancientegyptiantechnologies.uk...

that's the same page posted in the OP