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Belief in free will is equivalent to believing in Santa Claus

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posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 04:42 AM
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It is impossible to know what thought will appear prior to it appearing - so 'who' thought it?
Thought just happens and then a 'thinker' is imagined - there is no 'thinker'.

It is not that we do not have freewill - there is no one 'in there' that can do anything! The illusion is that there is someone 'in there' controlling the brain.
Believing that there is 'someone in there' is the same as believing in Santa Claus.
edit on 2-2-2017 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 05:05 AM
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Is there any relationship between the thinker and his thought, or is there only thought and not a thinker? If there are no thoughts there is no thinker. When you have thoughts, is there a thinker? Perceiving the impermanency of thoughts, thought itself creates the thinker who gives himself permanency; so thought creates the thinker; then the thinker establishes himself as a permanent entity apart from thoughts which are always in a state of flux. So, thought creates the thinker and not the other way about. The thinker does not create thought, for if there are no thoughts, there is no thinker. The thinker separates himself from his parent and tries to establish a relationship, a relationship between the so-called permanent, which is the thinker created by thought, and the impermanent or transient, which is thought. So, both are really transient.
Pursue a thought completely to its very end. Think it out fully, feel it out and discover for yourself what happens. You will find that there is no thinker at all. For, when thought ceases, the thinker is not. We think there are two states, as the thinker and the thought. These two states are fictitious, unreal. There is only thought, and the bundle of thought creates the 'me', the thinker
www.jkrishnamurti.org...
The 'me' that believes it has freewill has been created by thought - thought is not created by 'me'.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 05:24 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Most people cannot even understand that there is no absolute free will, let alone realize the illusion of the self which is much deeper. Only the open minded can understand these things fully.
edit on 2-2-2017 by Andy1144 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 05:38 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

This short video address some of the more interesting conundrums surrounding the concept of freewill.



Truth is through it raises more questions than it answers, which is how it should be i imagine.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:00 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Sam Harris has got it right. The logic used is disprove free will is pretty straightforward and simple. I think the question of free will is answered pretty solidly and leaves no further room for doubt or speculation. It's one of the few things we can know for sure.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:04 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
Truth is through it raises more questions than it answers, which is how it should be i imagine.

What questions arise when listening to the video?
edit on 2-2-2017 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:09 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

Personally i tend to lean toward the notion that nothing we really know is for sure.

Freewill vs Predestination is one of the great questions of all time and to be rather frank we simply do not yet have the tools at our disposal to address the conundrum in any meaningful manner.

Further understanding of consciousness and how it emerges is a requirement to address the problem. imho.
edit on 2-2-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Can you know what thought will appear next? Can you know what thought will arise prior to it arising?
These simple questions will easily answer the question of freewill.
If it is impossible to know the thought prior to it's arising then there is no you in there choosing!!



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:11 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Personally or in the video?

Multiple questions spring to mind.

Why being the most obvious.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:12 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Why what?



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:13 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Its not as simply as that through, its a mystery, rapped up in a conundrum, packed in a box marked do not open until your race reaches adolescence.

We are still but infants in the grand scheme of things.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:14 AM
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a reply to: Itisnowagain

Exactly!

Why this and not something else?



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

Thoughts happen and they produce the illusion of a 'thinker' - there is no thinker of thoughts!



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:15 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake




Freewill vs Predestination is one of the great questions of all time and to be rather frank we simply do not yet have the tools at our disposal to address the conundrum in any meaningful manner.

The question is not about free will vs predestination, I've said this multiple times in my post.
So all the time your talking about a completely different free will

Answer me this question, is it possible to be conscious of being unconscious. Yes or no? The answer is obviously going to be yes beyond a shadow of doubt and leaves absolutely no room for speculation. You can know so much for sure right?

Or for example we know what 2+2 is. You're saying why is it 4 and not something else. It's a pointless question.
edit on 2-2-2017 by Andy1144 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:17 AM
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originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Exactly!

Why this and not something else?


Why what?
Why did the video say what it said - is that what you are saying - sorry i don't understand what you are saying why to.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:18 AM
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a reply to: Andy1144

"Answer me this question, is it possible to be conscious of being unconscious. Yes or no?"

It could be both if we share some form of group consciousness.

There is no definitive answer because we don't understand consciousness enough or even how it relates to the reality we think we experience.

And it is about Freewill vs predestination because of the Boolean nature of the argument, if one is false then the other is true.

If there can be any middle ground we have yet to postulate a workable solution.
edit on 2-2-2017 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:19 AM
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Here is a great video.
Who wants to know what?



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake

You stated that the video raises more questions than answers - what questions does it raise?



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:21 AM
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a reply to: andy06shake




There is no definitive answer because we don't understand consciousness enough or even how it relates to the reality we think we experience.

You don't "think" you experience reality. There is just an experience of reality which is known. Can you know for sure that you are aware? Yes or no.



posted on Feb, 2 2017 @ 06:22 AM
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edit on 2-2-2017 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



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