Belief in free will is equivalent to believing in Santa Claus

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: InTheLight

The experience in itself is interesting, the fact that he also perceived beings that were somewhat in power or charge of the situation suggests numerous possibilities both from psychological and religious standpoints, not to mention a few others.

During my OBE I was offered the universe, but I chose to return home. Free will?

a reply to: InTheLight

Think i would have chosen the universe but its probobly a trick question considering our tiny little minds cannot seem to fathom our own reality never mind the rest of the infinite cosmos.

Did these entity's have any names?

I consumed lots of Mescaline in my younger years and seen the "all thing" it was neon blue and somewhat beyond my ability to comprehend, kept on changing/moving into what i perceived to be higher dimensions. Kind of like how we perceive a hyper cube to be only infinitely more complex and beyond my ability to convey with words really.

MODS: I'm not promoting the use of controlled substances in anyway, just a mere statement of fact and i hope within the scope of TnC.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: InTheLight

Think i would have chosen the universe but its probobly a trick question considering our tiny little minds cannot seem to fathom our own reality never mind the rest of the infinite cosmos.

Did these entity's have any names?

I consumed lots of Mescaline in my younger years and seen the "all thing" it was neon blue and somewhat beyond my ability to comprehend, kept on changing/moving into what i perceived to be higher dimensions. Kind of like how we perceive a hyper cube to be only infinitely more complex and beyond my ability to convey with words really.

MODS: I'm not promoting the use of controlled substances in anyway, just a mere statement of fact and i hope within the scope of TnC.

Altered states of mind are inconsequential, our natural minds can recreate any trip we want.

a reply to: InTheLight

All states of mind are consequential and worthy of study, Peyote is indeed natural and has been consumed for around 5500 years by us humans in our attempt to understand the nature of reality which it has been known to somewhat allow us to perceive higher realms or states of consciousness.

a reply to: andy06shake

Loneliness and feelings seem to be part of us being aware but that does not explain where our consciousness emerges from.

no it doesnt. but it begs the question. and assuming free will is an illusion and materialism is truth is to stop asking the question altogether.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: InTheLight

All states of mind are consequential and worthy of study, Peyote is indeed natural and has been consumed for around 5500 years by us humans in our attempt to understand the nature of reality which it has been known to somewhat allow us to perceive higher realms or states of consciousness.

There is no evidence these altered states are states of higher consciousness. I prefer complete control. Is control free will?

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Why stop asking questions.

Questions sometimes lead to answers, those answers proceeding to pose new and even more complex questions and interesting scenarios.

The day we stop asking questions is the day we become slaves to reality rather than master of our own fate, illusory or otherwise.

Stop asking questions indeed. No question should be taboo.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: andy06shake

Loneliness and feelings seem to be part of us being aware but that does not explain where our consciousness emerges from.

no it doesnt. but it begs the question. and assuming free will is an illusion and materialism is truth is to stop asking the question altogether.

Many people do stop there and never go beyond materialism and the physical world.

a reply to: InTheLight

There is no evidence other than Mans repeated use of the substance in the pursuit of higher knowledge for the last 5500 years or so.

"I prefer complete control."

But control may well be an illusion, and end of the day know one is ever in complete control of much really.

"Is control free will?"

Is freewill control?

The question is synonymous really.

Did these entity's you perceived have any names? I'm curious.

a reply to: Andy1144

I cannot find a separate entity from the brain and body.

well you are assuming that there is a separate entity in the first place.

Because one can think that life is unbearable so you can choose to end the pain for yourself.

well then are you saying life has a purpose? for the brain to say # it im gonna end it would imply a failure so catastrophic that there would be no need to keep going. without free will the only purpose is to survive.

so is the purpose to be happy? because that wouldnt make sense. evolution being the purpose would make sense. but then killing yourself due to feelings of discontent would be going against the purpose of the brain and the consciousness it produces. and why would there be a purpose if there is no free will. determinism is the epitome or purposelessness.

Very depressed/suicidal people tend to be less functional for the group. However I am not sure how common suicide from depression was in primitive times.

well less advanced tribes dont even have a concept of suicide. its unthinkable to them.

But you see the human brain is programmed to rewire itself through changing personal beliefs. The desire and ability to against the programming is the programming itself.

that just brings up more questions. why would the brain do this? it makes no sense. again we go back to the idea of purpose. what need would an unconscious entity with no free will have for purpose? it would just survive. that would be the only purpose. anything that goes against survival would be going against its purpose.

so what is the function of the consciousness assuming its origin is the brain? even if it is illusory it defies logic to have consciousness in the first place.

Oh, I never saw any entities...the universe was just offered to me. That's all folks. But, I wasn't ready to leave everything and everybody that mattered to me for the unknown.

Transposing makes me want to have another glass of wine.

a reply to: andy06shake

no i said its what other people would describe to be an angel. all i know is i was confused when i woke up and i stayed confused to this very moment. the experience defied my beliefs.

a reply to: InTheLight

Wine is good!

What offered the universe then, was it an auditory experience if so what did it sound or feel like?

Possibly worth considering that if you had have chosen the universe (which i take it you would have a measure of control over else why the offer?) you could have shaped it any way you choose hence not left everything and everybody that mattered to behind?

a reply to: AVoiceOfReason

Confused seems to be our natural state of being.

Look at it this way if indeed humanity were ever to become privy to the real workings of reality what would be the point of the human condition?

On the other hand transcendence seems to offer some measure of appeal.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: InTheLight

Wine is good!

What offered the universe then, was it an auditory experience if so what did it sound or feel like?

Possibly worth considering that if you had have chosen the universe (which i take it you would have a measure of control over else why the offer?) you could have shaped it any way you choose hence not left everything and everybody that mattered to behind?

Perhaps I offered myself the universe.

If I had chosen the universe in an OBE state, I doubt I would have returned to shape anything.

a reply to: InTheLight

Might all of been in your head, but then again the reality we experience might turn out to be in something else head.

Stayed returned, tomato tomato i suppose, the real question is do you get to go back at the end of the day?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: InTheLight

Might all of been in your head, but then again the reality we experience might turn out to be in something else head.

Stayed returned, tomato tomato i suppose, the real question is do you get to go back at the end of the day?

Whatever is going on, it's a weird trip without drugs.

a reply to: andy06shake

Look at it this way if indeed humanity were ever to become privy to the real workings of reality what would be the point of the human condition?

hahaha. yeah that question has some seriously insane implications. but then again life as we know it is fun. its fulfilling. we learn about ourselves and the nature of our consciousness.

the way i imagine it is what if you could design a simulation and then populate that simulation with yourself. your consciousness would split apart (for lack of a better term) and manifest in billions of entities having unique experiences and interacting with each other. you could come out of the simulation with incredible knowledge of yourself.

a reply to: InTheLight

I think the point is it was a weird trip period.

The gateway or means of experiencing such a thing being rather less important than the journey.

originally posted by: AVoiceOfReason
a reply to: andy06shake

Look at it this way if indeed humanity were ever to become privy to the real workings of reality what would be the point of the human condition?

hahaha. yeah that question has some seriously insane implications. but then again life as we know it is fun. its fulfilling. we learn about ourselves and the nature of our consciousness.

the way i imagine it is what if you could design a simulation and then populate that simulation with yourself. your consciousness would split apart (for lack of a better term) and manifest in billions of entities having unique experiences and interacting with each other. you could come out of the simulation with incredible knowledge of yourself.

Imagination at work folks!