How Come Some Hatred is Acceptable?

Something that's been creeping in my mind for a while now - the whole neo-nazi debacle has brought it to the fore-front for me. I don't normally do things like this, and this isn't a "the board is going down-hill" thread. Everything is fine.

But......

How come certain groups or ideas are allowed to be denegrated or ridiculed? While if you say something negative, even if true, about one group it's so damn unacceptable?

I'm a Christian. I don't practice, haven't been to church in ten years, can't stand Pat Robertson, the only real "political" thing I agree with them on is abortion, and I take the "fetus rights" route rather than the typical pro-life argument. But, every single time I see an argument where Christianity is involved on ATS the first sentence something like this: "Who let the fundamentalists out of the trailer park?" How come it's acceptable to insult (and truly some of it is hate), Christians?

So many threads are filled with absolute hatred of America and Americans. I understand why, we've had a terrible foreign policy since the Teddy Roosevelt administration. But that doesn't make it okay to hate Americans. I mean there's a poster, or at least there was, with the location "hating America" and that's not an isolated occurence. Many people have the "I hate all things America" agenda. So it's cool to hate 280 million people because we have a #ty foreign policy? A-OK for people to spew hatred for that same quarter of a billion people whose only real difference between you is the location they were born??? How come it's acceptable to hate Americans?

I don't want to keep going.... I just want to know I'm not the only one that sees this. That certain kinds of hate are PC while other kinds cannot be tolerated.

And to hedge off certain responses:

A. I appreciate people's opinions I don't agree with, I don't want censorship. That's the reason I come to ATS, to see all sides of the argument. I'll buy RANT, Otts, or Bout Time a drink any time. They're well spoken and back their opinions up with fact.

B. I don't believe that anyone that disagrees with me is hateful. I just think certain forms of hate are allowed to be propagated. I don't think that's cool at all. If I wanted everyone to agree with me I certainly wouldn't even bother coming here!

The bottom line is....if I'm the only person that sees this - and it's because I'm an American, upper-middle class, mostly conservative, WASP, I want to know. Must be I'm doing something wrong. I'm really, really not trying to stir stuff up - I just think to truly deny ignorance all forms of "hate" should be acknowledged.

And for anyone that read all of that:

I agree with you Pete! There is alot of Christianity bashing but also Muslim and virtually any other religion that has been mentioned. The community here on ATS does not seem to discriminate as all religions at one time or another have been in the hot seat. I think the Neo Nazi thing is completely different though as this hatred is directed at people mainly because of their ethnicity and not just simply their religious preference. This mind set shows, quite simply, ignorance and it really has no place here.

Hey!

ATS tries to allow as wide a range of views as possible. Sometimes this inevitably means others are going to get upset or feel insulted.This is ion line with Descarte's famous dictum "I disagree entirely with what you say but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it"

What is important to understand is that the reason why staff felt compelled to act against some "neo-nazis" was because they had broken existing rules within the Terms and Conditions of ATS. I think that we failed to make that point initially but I hope all who enjoy ATS will understand that now.

[edit on 30-1-2005 by John bull 1]

I've noticed the same thing up in Canada. Its okay to call anybody non liberal a redneck hillbilly white trash uneducated country bumpkin who lives in the trailer park.
If you work in the oil & gas industry then your automatically a corporate evil being out to destroy the earth out of greed. Even if you have actually done research that disproves the green peace theories & realize the earth's weather patterns cannot be measured in the lifespan of a human but I won't get into it.
There also is the fact that if you disagree with gay marriage then look out you are a hatemongerer nazi.
Not to mention the left always talks about the pedophiles in the Catholic church molesting boys (they should be shot in my opinion) is representative of the christian right when actually the right is mostly protestant with ministers who can marry!! ?
Then if you support the death penalty for murderers then there must be something wrong with you cause the left want to abolish the death penalty & tax the rich to feed the third world cause they want to save humanity yet they support abortion? I don't understand how this can work?
The way I see it everybody is a big two faced hypocrite!

[edit on 30-1-2005 by BattleofBatoche]

Good post Pete!

It's now politically correct to hate all religions except Islam. Worldwide, America-hating especially George Bush-hating has become a desirable trait. Basically anyone who has any moral core is fair game in the NWO. Hating the wealthy (class warfare) has become a big sport as well, look at the British anti fox-hunting law and the Democrats' attempts to blame successful businessmen for everything bad in the world in the last U.S. elections.

Originally posted by BattleofBatoche

There also is the fact that if you disagree with gay marriage then look out you are a hatemongerer nazi.
Not to mention the left always talks about the pedophiles in the Catholic church molesting boys (they should be shot in my opinion) is representative of the christian right when actually the right is mostly protestant with ministers who can marry!! ?

The only problem with your statement is that the largest Protestant congregation in Canada actually supports same-sex unions, The United Church of Canada. The decision itself is up to each church, but as a policy they have no problem with homosexual members.

We AFFIRM salvation for all people is by grace through faith and that all believers in Christ are accepted as full members of the Christian church regardless of their sexual orientation.

I for one must agree with a lot of what was said here.

It is important that we be able to harbor a dislike for someone, it is our right to do so as human beings living in free lands. You don't HAVE TO like anyone.

However, you must be careful in this. Personally, there's a lot of people I don't like. But it's different. I dislike someone because of their actions. Things that they specifically have done. Hating someone based on the country they were born in, or the religion they follow, or the color of their skin is moronic. It shows me a lack of intelligence from that person (leading me not to be terribly fond of them ironically enough).

I support everyone's right not to like Bush, Kerry, Clinton, Sharon, Chirac, Arafat, Blair, whomever. You don't like their policies, that's fine. We all agree on things and disagree on things. Such is human nature.

I support your right to not like me. Maybe you don't like my NY accent, maybe it's my pants, maybe my haircut. Who cares, you have every right.

It's just I can't stand it when people don't like someone for reason of where they're from.

Don't hate Christians, Jews, Muslims, Blacks, Whites, Asians. That's petty, childish and ignorant. Dislike people for their own individual actions if they upset you. Nothing wrong with that.

What is important to understand is that the reason why staff felt compelled to act against some "neo-nazis" was because they had broken existing rules within the Terms and Conditions of ATS. I think that we failed to make that point initially but I hope all who enjoy ATS will understand that now.

That's not true,,,, I received a warning from the site because I refered to a group as " FRUITS ". I received it 30 seconds after the complaint went in. I am clearly a Christian, have not danced around that fact at all,,, I wear it as a badge of pride, but after my warning, I was call things like an arrogant jackass, a biggot, a f-ing biggot, I was phycicaly threatened three times. I have contacted the site admin 10 times in the past three days and received no response nor saw any warnings on the discussion boards. When I received my warning,,,, they sent me two emails, a U2U, and a warning in the thread itself. Someone explain this one to me.

I think the reason so many people make those remarks about Christianity is because it is usually a particular type of Christian that will argue within threads that their way is the only way and they know for "fact" blaa, blaa, blaa....they are the ones that will do other things their bible tells them not to do but hate gays and use that bible to justify doing it, therefore, they have become known as very closed minded, which here, we have a "deny ignorance" mentality., they are so closed minded they don't even see it that way.......it goes both ways. When I first came here, I wanted to learn more about different views of Christianity from Christians themselves...I got a lot of bible thumping and just said to hell with it...and I haven't tried since....I was called a
"freak" the other day, and I have been called evil blaa, blaa, blaa....if the person was warned, I saw no red "warn" tag on him....but I have had warn tags for quoting......as to hating Americans....I can sorta understand it at the moment....look at the mess! The rest of the world though doesn't stop to think that half of us have no responsibility for what is happening, we don't control our governement....we elect htem, but we're not sure we really even do that anymore...it's corrupt.

Edit
Name calling is not to be tolerated either...but depending on who you read....I am either an "evil Satan worshiping Looney" that will burn in hell" or I am a tree "huggen bunny lovin' shy watching fool" opposite spectrums there! Depending on who ya listen to!


[edit on 1/30/2005 by LadyV]

Originally posted by deesw I received a warning from the site because I refered to a group as " FRUITS ".

Your actual post here is of a much more hateful tone than you imply... certainly a warning was in order in this case. No admin or other forum staff appears to have received a private communication from you. However, if we had, we certainly would have advised you to tone back your rhetoric if you expect to be treated in the manner you desire.

Don't call people fruits. It's a derogatory term for a social slander, and only meant to hurt. It's an irrational argument, saying nothing about your position, views, and (in my experience and opinion) uneducated.

I think a lot of the problem with Christianity comes from certain clashes with ATS philosophy. Most people see Christianity defined by the Catholics, who are in turn defined by being strict, asking you to take on faith; in short, Promoting Ignorance. Also, religion has become an increasingly large factor in politics, with the increased attention to religious states in the mideast, but America as well, with polarized issues that religions feel strongly about. So, some of the tension has to do with general, perceived culture-clashes.

It is always wrong generalize (except for that one:lol and should not be done. Hatred, racism, pretty much everything can be helped if you avoid stupid generalizations.

(Also, aliens are hard to fit into pretty much any religion. if there are aliens, religion must be stupid, wrong, and should therefore be killed, right?)

Originally posted by Amorymeltzer


(Also, aliens are hard to fit into pretty much any religion. if there are aliens, religion must be stupid, wrong, and should therefore be killed, right?

)

Not true actually, if your really closed minded...if your a Christian, could a god not of also reated them? There are himts to it in their own bible

""And the Lord God spake unto Moses, saying: The heavens, they are many, and they cannot be numbered unto man; but they are numbered unto me, for they are mine. And as one earth shall pass away, and the heavens thereof even so shall another come; and there is no end to my works, neither to my words."" Moses 1:37-38

Just a thought

Your actual post here is of a much more hateful tone than you imply... certainly a warning was in order in this case.

You are not being true on this board. I have printed off the last 6 communications that I made to you.
You take issue of me calling a group of people Fruits, which I admit was wrong, but when I had two separate threats on my life and I tried to make you aware of it,,,,, nothing.
When I was called a j---a-s, and a f---ing biggot and I tried to make you aware of it,,,,,, nothing.
I enjoy discussing things on this board, but if this is the way it's gonna be then I'd assume you don't have the site at all. Christians deserve the right to express our opinions just like everyone else here. If you disagree and think we do not then it needs to be on the front page of the site in big bold letters " CHRISTIANS NOT WELCOME ".

Muslims get it worse on this board. Im not mention members name, but threads which have been created by "that user" i just dont read. Im suprised that he/she has not been banned.

It's so funny to see you refer to Catholics as Christians, I always thought they followed the teachings of Cathol..
When did words aquire an edge? Was that some time during the bronze age? I'm being a wise ass, but I do have a point. If everyone was allowed to speak their mind, and nobody was allowed to use physical means to put an end to that speech, the world would be a better place. I can take it when people call me names. Gay people can't? I think we've become too intolerant of divergent speech in this country, and indeed, in the world. Until a word can poison a well, or kill cattle, I say let free speech alone when you're looking to improve the world.

I don't agree with the Nazis, but I think they should be heard. They went about their 'mission' in an unacceptable, deceptive fashion. That's the only reason they were removed if I'm not mistaken. The right action was taken, in that case.

As to the posters main thrust..
Christians aren't alone in the ring. There are more perspectives here on this board than I can count. Different paradigms means different boogey men. It's really that simple. I agree that Christianity sometimes gets a bad rap, but who doesn't get a bad rap from the opposition? Christians have been oppressing others, pretty much ever since there have been Christians. The same is true of Jews, Hindus, Muslims, every nation, every political idealogy, every faith. Everyone is in competition, that's been the nature of the game forever. I think everyone could be more tolerant of those different than them, but no standard is good unless it's universally applicable.

Originally posted by deesw
CHRISTIANS NOT WELCOME ".

That's not true and I think you know it. This is not a Christian board...I have tried to explain this to you before....it is usually better to get your point across without stating something is fact unless you are able to back it up...this is a conspiracy site.....you can say you believe this or that, you can not say your belief is fact.....it will bring someone saying "prove it" due to the nature of the site, and then when people do this, you start losing your cool because your faith/belief is questioned....that's just the way it is "here"

EDIT: Punctuation

[edit on 1/30/2005 by LadyV]

Originally posted by LadyV
I have tried to explain this to you before....it is usually better to get your point across without stating something is fact unless you able to back it up...this is a conspiracy site.....you can say you believe this or that, you can not say your belief is fact.....it will bring someone saying "prove it? due to the nature of the site, and then when people do this, you start losing your cool because your faith/belief is questioned....that's just the way it is "here"

I agree,
This board takes both sides of the arguement into account and this is how it works around here. We are not one side, this isnt Fox news. You make a claim, you back it up with evidence. Its simply.

That's not true and I think you know it. This is not a Christian board...I have tried to explain this to you before....it is usually better to get your point across without stating something is fact unless you able to back it up...this is a conspiracy site.....you can say you believe this or that, you can not say your belief is fact.....it will bring someone saying "prove it? due to the nature of the site, and then when people do this, you start losing your cool because your faith/belief is questioned....that's just the way it is "here"

Look Ladyv,,, I am not the greatest communicator, I know it, and am working on it. My issue is why the site has ignored my concerns. When you complained about my comment to you to them,,,, which was way out of line, my saying it that is, Ireceived a warning on the message board itself, and two emails as well threatening to kick me off. I have admitted I was wrong, but when people physicaly threaten bodily harm! The site should have taken on some sort of role then. I called a name, but come on,,, arrogant jack--s, fu--ing biggot! I was told by the site in an email that my " Christian " views were not welcome here. Those were the exact words. I thought the site itself was supposed to be unbiased.

Originally posted by deesw

I was told by the site in an email that my " Christian " views were not welcome here. Those were the exact words. I thought the site itself was supposed to be unbiased.

I would like to see this because I believe you have taken the context wrong.....all "views" are welcome ....perhaps the way in which you express them was being told to you, are not welcome here......where is the thread where your life was threatened?

I would like to see this because I believe you have taken the context wrong.....all "views" are welcome ....perhaps the way in which you express them was being told to you, are not welcome here......where is the thread where your life was threatened?

Does it matter? I have given the site administrator the information. I am being civil to you now and have said I was wrong before, yet you still continue with the anamisity towards me. I was told I needed to have my a-s kicked, and someone else wrote in and told me they would like to reach through their screen and beat the living sh-t out of me. There was another about cutting my head off and mailing it to my mother.