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The Desestabilization of Mexico - A Live Perspective

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posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 05:01 PM
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originally posted by: JakiusFogg
a reply to: kazike

So 41 comments here in over 7 years? And you come on and spout the party line, and downplay what is happening. Thats right nothing to see, everything is normal, costs are normal, salaries are normal, working conditions is normal, crime rate is normal, corruption is normal, impunity is normal, selling the arse of the people to the global elites..... all normal.

Let me get one thing straight, I am not Mexican, I have lived in countries with privatised energy sectors. They exist to make a profit, not to make power, or gas, or petroleum. And what will happen here will price you and the other 99% of people into the floor, to the point where you in the North in winter may have to decide whether you eat or heat. Now, for many that point is already been way surpassed, as you well should know. But that's the advantage I have over you, my experience of what Privatisation is really like. You have no idea whats coming.

But just keep beleiving what the authorities say, I mean, they have no reason to lie to you now do they?



I had never been here to comment, don't even like the political forums at all, I subscribed for the archeological and science forums back when ATS was at his best, now I still come once in a while looking for a good post. So when I saw this crazy rant full of lies about my country from a foreigner who doesn't know # of course I come and piss on your parade.


You write a lot but never giving any specific information, say you lived in different countries but don't say which ones, you say I have not idea what is coming but don't say what it is, someone is going to nuke us with a nuclear bomb soon?, because you made that prediction about USA a year ago and hasn't happened, and that's just your very last OP, do you really want me to review all of your previous nonsense in these forums?

You are saying I'm on the floor and will not have money to eat next winter, really?, do you know me?, have you ever been in Monterrey or know about the economy here?
Monterrey At A Glance

To make wild claims of a place that you don't even know is easy, I have been posting facts and figures and hope you start doing the same or close this thread for good, want to know about me?, I studied all my life in public schools until I graduated as an Engineer, worked 15+ years for Mexican, American and European companies, I invested my money wisely and now I'm enjoying early retirement in my 40's with my family, so don't worry about me, I will be fine, I drive an 8 cylinders Ford Expedition by the way, but no 15% increase will ruin my life, sorry to disappoint you, maybe you just happen to live in a very #ty place, I guess you could not afford decent living in your country nor here.

In this country you have decent education for free or dirt cheap all the way to your college degree, also universal health care, so there are no excuses, every one has his chance, but most people go the easy path, they drop school to look cool when young and then spend all their adult life bitching about everything and wanting the president in place to fix their life, this is not exclusive from Mexico, same morons populate the world, but here they like to be the victims and show their suffering to the world, this behavior come from very rusty catholic teachings still in use, ever wonder why soap operas are so popular here?

edit on 4-1-2017 by kazike because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 09:36 PM
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I was actually impressed with Monterrey when I worked thee for 3 months at the back end of 2015. My family enjoyed the day out in the Parque Fundidora.

I don't need to be specific about my personal circumstances, but I am glad to see you feel the need to. I have noticed that about people who have made their way in here, it's a type of dunning-kruger effect, but its never reflective of having any class. But also it is telling of a bitter resentment toward your own people, that to be honest needs to be addressed. no wonder there is a bitter class divide. This explains why you feel that all is fine. Its called "i'm alright Jack" syndrome. But at the end, you are NOT in the 99% of people in this country, but you're not in the 1% either. Your sort of top 20%, and well, good for you. it's no excuse to bury your head in the sand!

But let me tell you this, and as mentioned, I am British, I came here 7 years ago, for reasons that you don't need to know. So yes, I have lived in a privatised energy sector, as well as Governmental taxation hikes that do charge people into the ground, and even in the UK present people with that choice, of heat or eat. SO no, you have no idea what's coming. and its not a nuclear bomb. but for many in this country it will feel like it. And for a place with the level of crime as it is, do you really want to add fuel to the fire? But not only that, how about paying $5000 a month for electricity? $4000 a month for housing gas, the same for water, Spending $30-35 a litre on Petrol? This is no pie in the sky, this is what stuff costs now in the UK, with its private energy section, and there minimum wage is £6.70 and hour ($167.5 pesos and HOUR) here its what..... $80.4 a day. But OK as we have established, neither of us are on minimum wage, what about average wage? UK Average wage is £25,600 p.a. with a 33% taxes taken away. Now even earning about £1600 a month having to pay £250 for elec, £200 for heating, £200 for water, and $90 a week for fuel. then add to that the Council taxes (a bit like your plusvalia, or tenencias) that were brought in in the 90s and caused massive riots in London and around the country, then add road taxes and TV licensing, and VAT (IVA) on everything, which I believe already happened here,

NOW, do you want to apply the same situation which I guarantee is coming, to a country where the average wage at least around here in Jal. is what between $6K-10K a month with 30%. and pesos that is sinking faster than the Titanic! ($21.45 to the USD as of right now). How well do you think the fuel prices will hold at only a 15% increase when Gasoline is now sold to Mexico by the USA, which I guess will be in USD, and now with Mr Trump in charge soon, with a nice tax added to it. still happy about your situation? I do hope so!

Even with state education and the IMSS which as you should know is massively under funded, and lets not even start about the teachers. Can you really sit there and tell me that is going to be a good situation that will not affect you or anyone you know? If it doesn't.... great for you. but that does not mean that this is not happening. OF course you can say what I have said above is not true (look it up) and will not happen here, ( you wait and see). I am simply advising you of what I have seen post privatisation in the UK, and around Europe.

Your condition in the UK we call blinkered, like an old shire horse. I wish you well, but your are so far out of touch with what is really happening, and how the average person feels about all of this that I think you need to show some faith love and charity towards you fellow man, as your spirit is currently as bitter as lemons, as you write off everyone else not as fortunate as you (its never all your own work that puts you where you are) as lazy and entitled.

But as long as you're OK, that's all that matters right? time will tell.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: kazike
a reply to: JakiusFogg

I don't think you will ever have 40+ degrees Celsius.



You'd be wrong. April to June is bad, and getting worse since the corruption allows the development of the forests after accidentally being burned.

40C is now regular in the heat of the day in the city.



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 10:33 PM
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Anyway!

Back to the live events.

Protests currently active in: Tijuana, Magdalena, Delicias, Nava, Matamoros, Saltillo, Zacatecas, two in Guadalajara, Zapotlanejo, Irapuato, Ciudad Hidalgo. Lots in around Mexico City and Edomex, Tlaxcala, Morelos, and into Guerrero, Acapulco, and Lots going on in Oaxaca. Nothing happening on the Yucatan Penisula at the moment, although there are planned demostrations in Campeche and Tizimin, after there being protests in Merida and Cancun,

Still reports ongoing takeover of toll booths on main huighways from Tijuana (now in its third day) aswell as others around the country.

There are reports of looting happening. with news reports tonight saying that 75 main superstores (named was Commercial Mexicana) around the country have reported robberies and or looting with Images appearing on social media of people carrying away TV and other goods.

Saboteamos

Reports of fake news bots inciting panis on social media also are surfacing as calls are growing on social media for a Coup, However there is no indication that this is happening. It is more an indication of the intesity of feeling being expressed.

More to follow



posted on Jan, 4 2017 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: JakiusFogg


Since the protests are in different areas, at the same time. It doesn't sound like its a spontaneous event. Have you any idea what organisation is coordinating the demonstrations.?



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 10:15 AM
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What I read in the OP sounds like a perfectly reasonable time for armed revolt and overthrow of the government. I hope the people don't stau silent.



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: anonentity

Its the timing of the events that it spurring it on a national level. Simplyu the entire country is tired. So while things may be being organised by independent groups on a local level, there is currently no evidence of leadership coordinating events at a state level let alone nationally.

Today several were arrested and taken away by Police forces in Coahila, we shall see how that develops during the day. protests of transport unions in Mexico city.

Efforts online are being seen to warn about and diffuse efforts to disseminate false information and propaganda designed to incite panic. i.e. re;ports of gas shortages, panic buying and looting (even though there has been and is) in areas where it is not in fact happening. The efforts by whomsoever is doing this is following the old problem reaction solution plan.

More to follow



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 11:39 AM
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a reply to: Slickinfinity

time will tell
2nd



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 02:16 PM
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a reply to: JakiusFogg

What happens in Europe has nothing to do with the economy or political situation here, you keep mixing facts with cheap doom and gloom all over the place, let me explain the oil/fuel stuff to you.

Let's start with the production and consumption of oil, Mexico has always produced more oil than needed by his population, a few decades ago a political decision was made to stop refining oil locally because it was easier and cheaper to send the oil to the USA to be converted into fuel, this has been happening for many years even if you think it's something new, take a look at the Production vs Consumption chart here:

crudeoilpeak.info...

What is new is that now we will have our fuel market open and foreign companies can finally sell here, up until now we only have one choice, to purchase the fuel to Pemex at whatever price they want, in the long run the free market has been proven a better choice every single time here, we used to have many industries owned by the government and they were poorly managed, take Telmex as an example, it was our only phone company in the past and it sucked, now we have many options to choose with much better services and rates, $20 dollars per moth for an unlimited fixed line and high speed internet is not acceptable for you?, $25 for 150+ channels satellite service?, what's wrong with that?, yes all of those companies are private and many came from other countries, so what?, we have privatized a lot of things since the 90's without any doom, the opposite has happened actually, take a look around, we privatized natural gas, it used to be managed by CFE, railroads, steel generation, mining, it's a long list. When I was a child there was no McDonalds, Walmarts, or any other foreign businesses because it was forbidden, yes the government don't allow us to even eat an American hamburger, we have to go to a McDonald knockoff called Burger Boy with bad service, regular food and high prices, do you think I want my kids to go back to those days?, no way. You really need to do more research of the modern history of this country, you know how many rock concerts were authorized in the whole country from 1980 to 1992?, three, Alice Cooper, Queen and Rod Steward, that's right we couldn't even be visited by rock bands because of the kind of politicians that you seem to like.

Going back to fuel, it's USA still a good option to purchase our fuel?, I'm not sure but I think it is, the real price of oil is 50% or less of what you pay at the pump, the other 50% or more are taxes, will Trump make fuel more expensive?, I don't know, I don't really know if he can, but even if he does no apocalypse will happen, if you are really interested in doom scenarios study the real crisis we lived in the 80s and late 90's, those were hard times, kids today think they are entitled to an easy life and with any little hardship want to burn the country but is not going to happen, I had been hearing crazy revolution rants all my life by the same communism loving losers, they got excited with Castro, Marcos, Chavez, Maduro, etc. Any dictator offering free lunch make them get wet, study the Cuban revolution and you will learn that Castro was 90% funded by Mexicans, this is nothing new, but most of us know better than that, maybe for your European eyes what you see is something amazing but this is business as usual for us, same old agitators moving their puppets to the playground.

Now, why is the government taxing the hell out of fuel?, that's the real important question, they can simply take the money taxing other stuff, the reality is that we are wasting a lot of fuel, not the government, not the industry, but the regular Joe, here in Nuevo Leon we have almost 500 cars by every 1,000 people, it's ridiculous, having a car is no longer a need but a symbol of status, public transportation is much cheaper and many times even faster but it doesn't matter, people want to drive their cars to show off, so they believe they are entitled to cheap fuel, big roads, etc. Make this really simple exercise and you will start to see this truth in any major city, go outside to a busy street and count how many cars have only one passenger, at the very least is going to be 80%, same thing happened 30 years ago with water, it was so cheap that people were wasting it in unbelievable ways, so the prices had to be risen, that's the way most people has to be educated around here, sadly.

Remove the romantic bandage from your eyes and you will start to see reality, those people looting supermarkets and blocking highways are not poor citizens that behave that way because they don't have other choice, you have to be really naive to believe that, and that's not the reality of this country, not even close, it's like me saying USA is doomed for the Trump protests, or Ferguson riots or Black Friday craziness, dumb people make dumb things everyday all around the world, there you have your very own Brexit stuff, I read everywhere that it was a very stupid decision, but can't came here and write like I'm an expert and start throwing unfunded opinions.

So tell me, what will you do regarding taxes?, will you give away fuel dirt cheap to benefit the higher income people like me?, well then you will need to compensate taxing stuff life food or medicine (we don't pay any taxes on that as you should already know) and that will affect mainly the poorest families, should we remove free health care?, people like me never use it anyway, only the poor. Taxes should came from somewhere and I think you will agree that the rich guys have to pay more, that's why the first KwH of your electricity are very cheap to benefit the smaller houses and make the bigger pay more, same thing with the first cubic meters of water, but you have a problem even with that, and you keep saying you are all for the poor people, so how should people pay taxes, same rate for all and screw the poor?, that's how things are being taxed in Europe?



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 02:20 PM
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originally posted by: JakiusFogg

originally posted by: kazike
a reply to: JakiusFogg

I don't think you will ever have 40+ degrees Celsius.



You'd be wrong. April to June is bad, and getting worse since the corruption allows the development of the forests after accidentally being burned.

40C is now regular in the heat of the day in the city.


You are wrong, want to appear like an expert in Mexican affairs and can't even understand his weather, or you just enjoy making up stuff, I checked all the months you said and couldn't find even a single day with 40C, you hottest month was June, here it is:

Guadalajara June 2016

And this is a month in Monterrey for you to compare:

Monterrey July 2016



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 02:31 PM
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originally posted by: anonentity
a reply to: JakiusFogg


Since the protests are in different areas, at the same time. It doesn't sound like its a spontaneous event. Have you any idea what organisation is coordinating the demonstrations.?



That's actually something very easy to figure out for a real mexican, please take a look at the maps in this link:
Mapa Electoral

Look at the second map, the one that says PRD, that's our radical political party here, they want a left wing government to do stupid things, they would give away fuel for free even if people had to make long queues to get toilet paper, just like Venezuela, they are behind any major protest here in the last 20 years, look at the map and you will see that they have heavy presence in the states were the protests are happening.



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: JakiusFogg

Hmmmm, those government policies sound like the prelude to a Marxist Revolution along the lines of Venezuela, but with the help of the Chinese!



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: kazike

OK this is very simple. This thread is simply about trying to document what is happening here in a very complex situation. To be honest the only person here trying to be deliberately dishonest is you. For you everything is fine and glorious, excellent. it does not change for one second what is happening in this country, right now.

And no amount of derailing trolling or straw-manning will change that. FACT crazy # is happening right now. Deny it! go on I dare you.

Will it end in people getting killed, I hope not, but to be honest the way the authorities have handled things like this in the past going all the way back to the students in the 1960s right up to the Normalistas and beyond. I am not optimistic.

That's what this tread is about. NOW, if you want to snipe in trying to convince yourself that all is OK and is going to be OK, and that it won;t affect you in any way, nor your children or your family. Look up the term normalcy bias. I guarantee this future is going to test yours.

As for my politics, you have no idea what they are, and who or what I support. but if you consider the actions of this current government to be fair, straight dealing and even handed, I suggest that it should be you to take bandages off your eyes. Or perhaps you are so blinded by the stunning advances you country has made and what a commercial utopia it is now you are allowed concerts and McDonalds, and broadband internet and cable TV.



if that's how you judge the success of your country, i suggest you take a good look at Nairobi, its the same thing there, the haves and the have nothing, but in the end that are Societally unfit and not ready for the changes that are happening way to fast. That's what I see here as an outsider born and bread in the first world. and its a freaking shock I can tell you.

As for tax look up the concept of a tax allowance, and living minimum wage. that how we in the first world deal with the worse off. And stop mentioning "universal healthcare" when you're referring to the IMSS. its a joke.

As for my unfunded opinion. firstly I live here, I also see whats going on, I also talk to people here, and listen to what they have to say. and you sir, are the only "mexican" who keeps talking me that everything is great and there is nothing wrong in the country.... and keeps quoting everything in US Dollars and mentioning NFL playoffs, but you know, you're from the north, and probably a Kommander fan.

as for the temperature here. I don;t need a chart, I've been in Monterrey and yes it was hot. I also live here and can tell you in the city it hits 40C easily in the months of April to June. been there seen it cannot be denied, even if you don't want to believe it. Now. try the temps down in Campeche. You will melt.

Now if you;ve finishes with your little side show I will go back to trying to keep event updated as they unfold. If you want to participate to give your perspective on what is happening fine, but do so without being a snarky twat, or trying to write off what is happening as just a delinquent element when you should know very well that there is far more going on here than people really want to believe.



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: kazike

The locations of where this are happening are simply limited to the areas with high PRD influence. Look at your own map, and the real time map side by side.

Mira guey

tu mapa



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 03:57 PM
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originally posted by: JakiusFogg
a reply to: kazike

The locations of where this are happening are simply limited to the areas with high PRD influence. Look at your own map, and the real time map side by side.

Mira guey

tu mapa



And where am I wrong?, most big protests are in Mexico City, Guerrero, Oaxaca, Michoacan, Zacatecas, Veracruz, Chiapas, Quintana Roo, the very same locations with heavy PRD presence in my map, so I'm going to ask it again, where am I wrong?



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 03:59 PM
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originally posted by: kazike

originally posted by: JakiusFogg
a reply to: kazike

The locations of where this are happening are simply limited to the areas with high PRD influence. Look at your own map, and the real time map side by side.

Mira guey

tu mapa



And where am I wrong?, most big protests are in Mexico City, Guerrero, Oaxaca, Michoacan, Zacatecas, Veracruz, Chiapas, Quintana Roo, the very same locations with heavy PRD presence in my map, so I'm going to ask it again, where am I wrong?


Here in NL PRD has less than 5% of the votes in every election, being a 5 million state I could expect a few thousand people marching on the streets with PRD backing them, it will be very foolish for me to say no one will be protesting here, we will have some, and what's the big deal?, that's how politics work everywhere, are you scared?, never seen a protest in person before?

edit on 5-1-2017 by kazike because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-1-2017 by kazike because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 04:02 PM
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edit on 5-1-2017 by kazike because: duplicated



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 04:35 PM
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originally posted by: JakiusFogg
a reply to: kazike

OK this is very simple. This thread is simply about trying to document what is happening here in a very complex situation. To be honest the only person here trying to be deliberately dishonest is you. For you everything is fine and glorious, excellent. it does not change for one second what is happening in this country, right now.

And no amount of derailing trolling or straw-manning will change that. FACT crazy # is happening right now. Deny it! go on I dare you.

Will it end in people getting killed, I hope not, but to be honest the way the authorities have handled things like this in the past going all the way back to the students in the 1960s right up to the Normalistas and beyond. I am not optimistic.

That's what this tread is about. NOW, if you want to snipe in trying to convince yourself that all is OK and is going to be OK, and that it won;t affect you in any way, nor your children or your family. Look up the term normalcy bias. I guarantee this future is going to test yours.

As for my politics, you have no idea what they are, and who or what I support. but if you consider the actions of this current government to be fair, straight dealing and even handed, I suggest that it should be you to take bandages off your eyes. Or perhaps you are so blinded by the stunning advances you country has made and what a commercial utopia it is now you are allowed concerts and McDonalds, and broadband internet and cable TV.



if that's how you judge the success of your country, i suggest you take a good look at Nairobi, its the same thing there, the haves and the have nothing, but in the end that are Societally unfit and not ready for the changes that are happening way to fast. That's what I see here as an outsider born and bread in the first world. and its a freaking shock I can tell you.

As for tax look up the concept of a tax allowance, and living minimum wage. that how we in the first world deal with the worse off. And stop mentioning "universal healthcare" when you're referring to the IMSS. its a joke.

As for my unfunded opinion. firstly I live here, I also see whats going on, I also talk to people here, and listen to what they have to say. and you sir, are the only "mexican" who keeps talking me that everything is great and there is nothing wrong in the country.... and keeps quoting everything in US Dollars and mentioning NFL playoffs, but you know, you're from the north, and probably a Kommander fan.

as for the temperature here. I don;t need a chart, I've been in Monterrey and yes it was hot. I also live here and can tell you in the city it hits 40C easily in the months of April to June. been there seen it cannot be denied, even if you don't want to believe it. Now. try the temps down in Campeche. You will melt.

Now if you;ve finishes with your little side show I will go back to trying to keep event updated as they unfold. If you want to participate to give your perspective on what is happening fine, but do so without being a snarky twat, or trying to write off what is happening as just a delinquent element when you should know very well that there is far more going on here than people really want to believe.





I never said this country is great or glorious or excellent, where did I say that?, but it's much better now that the one were I grew up with the government taking freedoms away, were did I support the current government?, we probably have the dumbest president ever, but people voted for him because he seemed like a cute guy, what can I do about it?, the guy married a soap opera star and went popular very fast, that very same people crying now voted for him 4 years ago, will they learn their lesson?, I hope so but probably not, if I have to take a bet we will elect another moron in the coming elections. The current guy in power won with only 38% of the popular vote because we don't have second rounds in our elections, but guess you don't even know that, that's the kind of things people should be protesting on the streets not communist crap against free markets.

Take any country you want, yours included and 20% of the population will have 80% of the money, that's common knowledge and it's nothing new, but you seem so shocked to see it happening here:

Economic Inequallity in UK

Now go and look at the World Happiness Report, take any year you want and you will find Mexico in the top 20 of 150+ countries, probably even higher than UK, how do you explain that?, how can that be possibly true if we are in such a sorry condition?

And you keep up with the lies, tell me a day in 2016 where temperature reached 40C in Guadalajara, can't you even accept that you were wrong with that?

edit on 5-1-2017 by kazike because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 04:55 PM
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a reply to: JakiusFogg

www.reuters.com...


Mexicans angry over a double-digit hike in gasoline prices looted stores and blockaded roads on Wednesday, prompting over 250 arrests amid escalating unrest over the rising cost of living in Latin America's second biggest economy.

Twenty-three stores were sacked and 27 blockades put up in Mexico City, Mayor Miguel Angel Mancera said, days after the government raised gasoline costs by 14 to 20 percent, outraging Mexicans already battling rising inflation and a weak currency.

Mexican retailers' association ANTAD urged federal and state authorities to intervene quickly, saying 79 stores had been sacked and 170 forcibly closed due to blockades.



posted on Jan, 5 2017 @ 05:10 PM
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a reply to: JakiusFogg


By the way, are you even doing something about all the inequality you are supposedly seen?, or just eating popcorn watching the news to come and post you are in the middle of hell?, making donations anywhere?, to the Teletón at least?, wait, PRD people don't donate there because in their mind the money is stolen by the corrupt bad guys, even when the hospitals are there for all to see.


If you really worry maybe is time to do something else beside posting here, even a little thing can help, I'm an amateur photographer, just a hobby but can take a good pic when lucky, I even had a teacher from London when I started, and she also complain about high taxes now that i remember, well, I donate pictures to a government run charity, they make auctions and collect money for orphan children, hope you could contribute in any way you want if you really care, well I think this is going to be my last post around here, can't see a good reason to waste my time with someone so closed minded to even embrace the possibility of being wrong. Good luck and consider moving to another place, you are too soft and naive to be living in any Latin American country at the moment, people will take advantage from that, they are probably doing it now but you will never admit it, I assure you they can smell you from miles away, the fool foreigner who came to liberate the new world, don't say I didn't warn you.



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