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Why can't God forgive Satan if he can forgive man?

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posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 09:59 AM
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Satan views himself as equal to God.

In order to be forgiven, we must approach God as little children. That means we must humble ourselves before God and admit we did and do things wrong in our lives. Then we must be sincerely sorry and ask for forgiveness.

God doesn't just wave a magic wand and decree you forgiven.

There is a relationship implied there. Satan will not acknowledge that relationship, so he will not be forgiven.

Another way to put it is that "sin" is walking out of step with God, out of harmony with God. Satan is the epitome of that nature in his direct rebellion against God as an angel who was created directly to serve.

And finally, Jesus came to redeem mankind. Man and angel are different beings. Through Christ we find out salvation and forgiveness. Even assuming that a fallen angel like Satan could find redemption through Christ, he already has major issues humbling himself before God whom he views as an equal and now you think he's going to lower himself to accept Christ too. Even though Christ is the Word of God, part of the trinity, He also walked in human flesh and I doubt Satan would be very keen to acknowledge the divine aspect.
edit on 26-12-2016 by ketsuko because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 02:50 PM
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Bottom line is that demons can not repent.

Why Aren’t Demons Saved?


edit on 12/26/2016 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: auto3000

He can and will

1 Corinthians 15.

God will be all in all. The word all literally means all things. Everything that exists.

The lake of fire is not eternal punishment but aionian (referring to the age to come) fire that purges all evil, wood, hay, stubble, dross until all that's left is precious metals, gems.

That's if you believe Satan to be a being. I don't. In that case Satan is destroyed because that is the wood hay stubble dross. It is our dark nature that will be purified from us.

Either way in the end all will be one with God.


Umm actually.. the lake of fire destroys all evil. ANy souls tossed in are destroyed as to had never existed. that is only because God is merciful and does not want any of his children to suffer eternally. Its also why there will be no tears in the new heaven/earth. Because if your loved ones who died and were tossed in the lake of fire ceased to exist in all time why would you be sad? They never existed.

OR Satan is actually just doing a Job and the whole rebelling thing was just written as a cover story.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 04:48 PM
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It is all totally nuts .
1 God (knows all sees all the future the past every sin we have done or will do .
In the beginning there was ONLY GOD no angles or devils or universe he created it all knew it all before it was even created . So God knowingly created teh devil his own worst enemy he then created man and the tree Knowing man would eat from it the devil would talk him into it .
Then Knowing man would sin knowing the devil would revolt he constantly killed men women and children through out history This is your loving kind god . See i grow up believing in him as well but the more i learned the less i wanted to do with him . He tells me do this or ill allow you to be tortured and the devil i made my self will be the one who does it .
Ill kill the whole planet except 5
I kill the whole city every man women a child . over and over .
The devil hasn't even come close to that amount of evil .and if he had well god must have made him with it to begin with . You can call the murdder of millions by god his will I call it evil much more so tehn any evil he says they committed .
Being all powerful I am sure there are other ways to get people to change (and killing them they cant change ).
so much for free will any time he is pissed he wipes us out .
You dont egt my loyity through fear



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: auto3000

The Bible tells us a lot about God and his dealings with men.

Unfortunately when it comes to things from everlasting the Bible is very silent. There are hints to why Satan/Lucifer/the Devil/the old Dragon fell into sin and what he does in this world today. But whatever reason he cannot be forgiven is not told us.

But if I had to guess it is two things unbelief and blasphemy of the Holy Ghost.

The first keeps one from being saved and forgiven and the second cannot be forgiven.


edit on 26-12-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 07:07 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

No where in the Bible does it say the lake of fire destroys all evil.

As a matter of fact it says those in it their smoke rises us forever before God, and they are tormented forever.

Revelation 14:10, 11 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Sounds more like the fire doesn't destroy but torments forever and ever. No reason for anyone to ever want to end up in that place.


edit on 26-12-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)

edit on 26-12-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

study after the white throne judgement and what happens after. God is a loving God and would not like to see his creations sufferring eternally.

Actually heres something better. read this page.

is hell eternal punishment?
edit on 16000000pppm by yuppa because: extra info



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 09:17 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

actually it says death(a condition) and hell (a location that temporarily holds people until the great white throne judgement), are both tossed into the lake of fire as well.

Rev 20:14, 15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
He may be a loving God but he is also a just God and a God of truth. So if he says that sinners will be punished forever they will be punished forever.

Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Joh 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment
: but the righteous into life eternal.
Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Mt 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mt 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
If he does not then he is not true to his word and not a God worth following. But his words are pure words and will stand true int he end despite what we may feel or think.


edit on 26-12-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

Youre not gettng it Being destroyed IS etrnal isnt it? Ceasing to be forever and all time. Are you catholic?



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 09:42 PM
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a reply to: yuppa

Search the entire bible for fire. Almost every time it is the presence of God. Here is a general outline of major instances of fire occurring.

The flaming sword between the cherubim, marking the way to the tree of life. (see the pillar of fire, being the same)

The burning bush. The presence of God.

The pillar of flame/smoke. The presence of God (that dwells between the cherubim)

Our God is a consuming fire a fullers soap. God uses fire to cleanse and purify.

The tongues of fire that come down on the disciples heads, symbolizing the Holy Spirit.

All will be salted with fire (this includes "christians")

Every mans works will be judged by fire, wood hay stubble will be burned away, but precious metals and gems will remain. The works of flesh are the wood hay stubble, dross, the spirit is the precious metals.

God makes his ministers flames of fire.

Then we have the lake of fire. Which is the only one that isn't the presence of god?

A couple things about the lake of fire. The Greek word for torment is basanos which is to test a metal with a touchstone to test its purity.

Brimstone is sulfur which was used to purify temples, used as an antibiotic, or to kill infection, like a fullers soap? Or like washing sins white as snow?

The word forever, is aion which is the same as our word Eon. It is an age. Forever and ever should actually be translated to the age of the ages. This is the new creation after the consumption of the current ages we live in. After all have been through the fire and washed their robes, and entered into the New Jerusalem. "The bride and the lamb say come... the gates are always open". Who would they be beckoning into the gates except those outside the gates. Don't forget the leaves of the Tree of Life that are for healing to the nations.

The smoke of their torment is in the presence of the lamb and his saints. Meaning you will be forever in the presence of people being tormented if you consider yourself one of the ones making the cut. Hell is not a place of separation. No the ministers that are flames of fire are the ones who are doing the work of purifying and cleaning the wounded and broken.

1 corinthians 15 has the last word that we see in the bible. Just because Revelation is the last book, doesn't mean it shows the end. No Paul was given that. "Then comes the end when he has subjected all things to himself, then the son subjects himself to the Father, so that God may be all in all." The subjection of all things is through the fire. It is not scrapping the majority of conscious beings or torturing them for eternity. No it is nothing less than the all beings coming into oneness with God. Eventually all become the fire.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 11:38 AM
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a reply to: yuppa

I think destroyed means that they no longer exist. But according to those scriptures they do exist in punishment for eternity.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: auto3000



Ok, so bear with me.... If God can forgive man of murder, genocide, every sin he could commit then why cant Satan be forgiven? Why can't the angels that believed in him and followed him be forgiven?

In the modern English, the word believe is mostly understood as simply accepting a happening or physicality as truth. But in this case and many other cases, in the biblical world, the meaning of belief is to first accept and then to act upon that which one would accept.

When applied to this interpretation we can see it more clearly as is written in the following ----

Mark_3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:

The celestial rebellion included one leader and many followers who did not know what death was. It was not created in this celestial substance. At this time no one knew what death was or what it could entail. Now why is this so important to understand? It is important to realize that this celestial creation that rebelled against the Most High did not have genuine love for their Most High or their Creator. They understood that they were indeed created but had no allegiance or love for the Most High EL. and actually by the act of disobedience they showed disrespect by word and deed.

Why is it said "Holy Spirit"? Because The Most High EL is the not the Creator but His Word was the Creator. There is a great difference between the two as is explained in the first chapter of the apostle John's work. The Most High El is total unseen and unfathomable Spirit whereas His Word is His celestial image and the Creator of all that is created in both heaven and earth.

Most all Christians that I have discussed this with are not taught the difference between "The Most High Spirit El" and His begotten Creator "The Word". [who came to us as Jesus] ---

Getting back to the disobedient angels it can then be understood that this same rule applies to all of creation. Adam sinned as the man in charge but neither Adam or Eve sinned with hate or disrespect against the Holy El. They sinned against the orders of the Creator and were forgiven that sin even though punished for their action only. But as the fallen angels had done, they did not speak against either the Holy Spirit or the Creator. Even speaking or action taken against the Word [Creator], can be forgiven through repentance but not against The Most High Spirit El.. So actually blaspheming the Holy Spirit is not forgiven regardless of whether it be terrestrial man or celestial angel.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 11:55 AM
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a reply to: zardust

even the baptism with firs is about judgement. Many think it is being given a gift. But look at the context and it is easy to see it is judgement. Plus when Peter quoted it baptized is always with the spirit and no fire.

Mt 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
Lu 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
17 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and will gather the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
When you look at this which Peter speaks of it is a direct bible cross reference to John's teaching of him baptizing them with the spirit and fire but there is no fire here.

Ac 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
The conclusion then is that fire speaks of judgement.

While God is surrounded by a consuming fire that is to keep out any who are not allowed to look upon him, that first will kill anyone who tries.

Ex 24:9 ¶ Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 07:03 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: yuppa

I think destroyed means that they no longer exist. But according to those scriptures they do exist in punishment for eternity.


Ok that would be in contradiction to No more tears in heaven woudnt it? Because their loved ones would still be sad if they knew they were in hell forever.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 08:04 PM
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Text a reply to: ChesterJohn
even the baptism with firs is about judgement. Many think it is being given a gift. But look at the context and it is easy to see it is judgement. Plus when Peter quoted it baptized is always with the spirit and no fire.

Very good thought. I had never delved into that matter of fire but as you have revealed to me it is very logical. I also have pondered that being baptized by or in the Holy Spirit is also something that most Christians really do not understand. We know the baptism of Moses and we know the baptism of John and neither of the two were by The Most High. Here we see that The Most High poured out His spirit upon people as prophesied by Joel.

Joel 2:28,29
(28) And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
(29) And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

It may be that why most Christians that do not understand this is because they have assumed that the Holy Ghost appears as fire when in fact it is not fire but resembles tongues of fire simply as describing what it appears to their sight.

Good thought ChesterJohn. You should make a thread on that.

Act 2:3,4
(2) And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
(4) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

I believe that some who have this conception that the gifts of the Holy Spirit is fire have gotten that idea partly from the upper room happening.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 09:44 PM
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a reply to: auto3000

What makes you think God is mad at Satan?

For... what?

Doing his assigned task of tempting people?

God initiated that as part of his plan.

Ha Satan is subservient to God, not his enemy.

Satan only does what he is told, and doesn't need to be forgiven.

He is a Seraph, not a demon or fallen angel.

You won't read about Satan in 1 Enoch with the fallen Watchers.

I think you misunderstand Satan's role because Christianity teaches non biblical myths about him like that he is God's enemy.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 09:47 PM
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a reply to: Seede

Did you say Jesus/the Word is the Creator?

I don't think so. He is a creation. The Word came from God, but this is not Neo Platonic philosophy it's Christianity and the Logos is not the Creator in Christianity.

In fact a proper translation of John is "and the Logos was a god." NOT God.

Different words, different meanings.

God is Creator, not Jesus.

Unless you can show me his name in Genesis, I think you have stretched logic to its snapping point.

Did Jesus claim to be the Creator? God?

He didn't.
edit on 27-12-2016 by SethTsaddik because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 09:53 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn
To understand the verses about the "lake of fire" in relation to the usage of the English word "hell" in some translations of the bible, it is useful to understand the conflation game (or capitalization on the ambiguity of language) being played regarding the word "hell" (and the tactic of interpreting that which is meant symbolically as literal and that which is meant literal as symbolic, such as that Jesus is the "firstborn of all creation", Col.1:15, a common tactic).
The video below clears some of that up:

Lake of Fire: Insight, Volume 2

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: “This means the second death, the lake of fire.”—Re 20:14; 21:8.

The symbolic quality of the lake of fire is further evident from the context of references to it in the book of Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. (Re 19:20; 20:14) Death obviously cannot be literally burned. Moreover, the Devil, an invisible spirit creature, is thrown into the lake. Being spirit, he cannot be hurt by literal fire.—Re 20:10; compare Ex 3:2 and Jg 13:20.

Since the lake of fire represents “the second death” and since Revelation 20:14 says that both “death and Hades” are to be cast into it, it is evident that the lake cannot represent the death man has inherited from Adam (Ro 5:12), nor does it refer to Hades (Sheol). It must, therefore, be symbolic of another kind of death, one that is without reversal, for the record nowhere speaks of the “lake” as giving up those in it, as do Adamic death and Hades (Sheol). (Re 20:13) Thus, those not found written in “the book of life,” unrepentant opposers of God’s sovereignty, are hurled into the lake of fire, meaning eternal destruction, or the second death.—Re 20:15.

While the foregoing texts make evident the symbolic quality of the lake of fire, it has been used by some persons to support belief in a literal place of fire and torment. Revelation 20:10 has been appealed to, because it speaks of the Devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet as being “tormented day and night forever and ever” in the lake of fire. However, this cannot refer to actual conscious torment. Those thrown into the lake of fire undergo “the second death.” (Re 20:14) In death there is no consciousness and, hence, no feeling of pain or suffering.—Ec 9:5.

In the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death. For example, in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment (baʹsa·nos) is several times used with reference to punishment by death. (Eze 3:20; 32:24, 30) Similarly, concerning Babylon the Great, the book of Revelation says, “the kings of the earth . . . will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment [Gr., ba·sa·ni·smouʹ].” (Re 18:9, 10) As to the meaning of the torment, an angel later explains: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.” (Re 18:21) So, fiery torment here is parallel with destruction, and in the case of Babylon the Great, it is everlasting destruction.—Compare Re 17:16; 18:8, 15-17, 19.

Therefore, those who are ‘tormented forever’ (from Gr., ba·sa·niʹzo) in the lake of fire undergo “second death” from which there is no resurrection. The related Greek word ba·sa·ni·stesʹ is translated ‘jailer’ in Matthew 18:34. (RS, NW, ED; compare vs 30.) Thus those hurled into the lake of fire will be held under restraint, or “jailed,” in death throughout eternity.—See GEHENNA; TORMENT.


Do checkout the page on "TORMENT" if you want to know more about the verses you brought up.

New World Translation, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9:

8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

2 Peter 3:7

7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.

King James Version, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9:

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Since some of you might be familiar with my thread about one myth leading to another, the myths about hell are based on another myth (it traces back its origin to Babylon again, hence my rather frequent referrals to the explanation who Babylon the Great is and how you can tell when you're still taking your information and teachings regarding spiritual matters from that source):
Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal
Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell


What is the origin of the teaching of hellfire?

In ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom’s hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.

But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

Source: Hell: Reasoning

The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . .

Hell: Insight
edit on 27-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 09:54 PM
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originally posted by: ketsuko
Satan views himself as equal to God.


He tell you this?

Because it's not in the Bible.

No, not Isaiah 14:12 either, that was about a Babylonian King with grandiose designs.



In order to be forgiven, we must approach God as little children. That means we must humble ourselves before God and admit we did and do things wrong in our lives. Then we must be sincerely sorry and ask for forgiveness.

God doesn't just wave a magic wand and decree you forgiven.

There is a relationship implied there. Satan will not acknowledge that relationship, so he will not be forgiven.

Another way to put it is that "sin" is walking out of step with God, out of harmony with God. Satan is the epitome of that nature in his direct rebellion against God as an angel who was created directly to serve.

And finally, Jesus came to redeem mankind. Man and angel are different beings. Through Christ we find out salvation and forgiveness. Even assuming that a fallen angel like Satan could find redemption through Christ, he already has major issues humbling himself before God whom he views as an equal and now you think he's going to lower himself to accept Christ too. Even though Christ is the Word of God, part of the trinity, He also walked in human flesh and I doubt Satan would be very keen to acknowledge the divine aspect.


Satan is not the enemy of God, but his servant.

I don't know how Christians miss that important aspect and blow Satan up as the god of this world, he is not.

And God has no enemies, Satan knows his job and does it under orders from God.



posted on Dec, 27 2016 @ 09:57 PM
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originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: ChesterJohn
To understand the verses about the "lake of fire" in relation to the usage of the English word "hell" in some translations of the bible, it is useful to understand the conflation game (or capitalization on the ambiguity of language) being played regarding the word "hell" (and the tactic of interpreting that which is meant symbolically as literal and that which is meant literal as symbolic, such as that Jesus is the "firstborn of all creation", Col.1:15, a common tactic).
The video below clears some of that up:

Lake of Fire: Insight, Volume 2

This expression occurs only in the book of Revelation and is clearly symbolic. The Bible gives its own explanation and definition of the symbol by stating: “This means the second death, the lake of fire.”—Re 20:14; 21:8.

The symbolic quality of the lake of fire is further evident from the context of references to it in the book of Revelation. Death is said to be hurled into this lake of fire. (Re 19:20; 20:14) Death obviously cannot be literally burned. Moreover, the Devil, an invisible spirit creature, is thrown into the lake. Being spirit, he cannot be hurt by literal fire.—Re 20:10; compare Ex 3:2 and Jg 13:20.

Since the lake of fire represents “the second death” and since Revelation 20:14 says that both “death and Hades” are to be cast into it, it is evident that the lake cannot represent the death man has inherited from Adam (Ro 5:12), nor does it refer to Hades (Sheol). It must, therefore, be symbolic of another kind of death, one that is without reversal, for the record nowhere speaks of the “lake” as giving up those in it, as do Adamic death and Hades (Sheol). (Re 20:13) Thus, those not found written in “the book of life,” unrepentant opposers of God’s sovereignty, are hurled into the lake of fire, meaning eternal destruction, or the second death.—Re 20:15.

While the foregoing texts make evident the symbolic quality of the lake of fire, it has been used by some persons to support belief in a literal place of fire and torment. Revelation 20:10 has been appealed to, because it speaks of the Devil, the wild beast, and the false prophet as being “tormented day and night forever and ever” in the lake of fire. However, this cannot refer to actual conscious torment. Those thrown into the lake of fire undergo “the second death.” (Re 20:14) In death there is no consciousness and, hence, no feeling of pain or suffering.—Ec 9:5.

In the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death. For example, in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment (baʹsa·nos) is several times used with reference to punishment by death. (Eze 3:20; 32:24, 30) Similarly, concerning Babylon the Great, the book of Revelation says, “the kings of the earth . . . will weep and beat themselves in grief over her, when they look at the smoke from the burning of her, while they stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment [Gr., ba·sa·ni·smouʹ].” (Re 18:9, 10) As to the meaning of the torment, an angel later explains: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.” (Re 18:21) So, fiery torment here is parallel with destruction, and in the case of Babylon the Great, it is everlasting destruction.—Compare Re 17:16; 18:8, 15-17, 19.

Therefore, those who are ‘tormented forever’ (from Gr., ba·sa·niʹzo) in the lake of fire undergo “second death” from which there is no resurrection. The related Greek word ba·sa·ni·stesʹ is translated ‘jailer’ in Matthew 18:34. (RS, NW, ED; compare vs 30.) Thus those hurled into the lake of fire will be held under restraint, or “jailed,” in death throughout eternity.—See GEHENNA; TORMENT.


Do checkout the page on "TORMENT" if you want to know more about the verses you brought up.

New World Translation, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9:

8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

2 Peter 3:7

7 But by the same word the heavens and the earth that now exist are reserved for fire and are being kept until the day of judgment and of destruction of the ungodly people.

King James Version, 2 Thessalonians 1:8, 9:

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


Wow. I didn't see this coming but I actually think this is a level headed comment.

I will give credit when due, it's here due and given.




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