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Why can't God forgive Satan if he can forgive man?

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posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 05:13 PM
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originally posted by: ScreamingNinjas
I love how everyone seems to have their own version of a fake God and devil.

Fools.


Yes, even you. Your version is not that original though.
edit on 25-12-2016 by Observationalist because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: auto3000

You asked a lot in the OP so it's kind of hard to answer it all. But I'll give some pretty standard Islamic answers.


If God can forgive man of murder, genocide, every sin he could commit then why cant Satan be forgiven?

Who says we'll be forgiven for those things? The whole point in Hell is that the those who fail their spiritual tests will be punished for them.

As for Shaytan/Satan/Iblis, he's simply a lost cause. The Qur'an's story is that God commanded all to bow to Adam, but Iblis refused because he thought he was superior to Adam. God was going to punish him right then but Iblis asked for a reprieve until the Day of Judgment. When God granted the reprieve, Iblis said he'd use that time to corrupt as many humans as possible in order to prove his point. God responded that any humans who would follow Iblis would be punished in Hell with Iblis, cast him out, and warned Adam that Iblis was an open enemy to him. (Surah 7:11 - 7:25, Pickthall translation)



Why can't the angels that believed in him and followed him be forgiven?

We don't believe Angels rebelled and had some great war with God & His loyal Angels. Though we do believe there are other jinn besides Iblis/Shaytan, and they can be good or evil.



Why can't a man burning in hell that is screaming for help be forgiven?

That's a vague question. Different Abrahamic denominations have differing views on Hell, with some believing punishment there only lasts a set amount of time. Various Muslim scholars also have differing views on the length of punishments in Hell.



So you love your child, they commit sin, and burn screaming in torment for eternity?

In Islam, we're all responsible for our own individual spiritual paths & no one will be wronged even the slightest bit on the Day of Judgment. I can't stop you from going to Heaven or Hell, just as you can't stop me from going to either. So yes, there will be plenty of people whose descendants and/or ancestors will go to Hell.



God also knows what you are going to do before he even created us, so why create sin if it will hurt us and make the innocent suffer?

This life is just a series of tests to see if we'll strive towards Heaven or Hell. It's basically a practice run/simulation for the real dimension (Heaven), with each of us getting to prove our true intentions through our actions, inactions, and beliefs. So if anyone is to blame for "sin", it's us. We all have the choice on whether to commit them or not, especially once we learn right from wrong. And since believers should know right from wrong, we should accept the liability for our actions.



Free will? Couldn't we live without it?

That would defeat the purpose in us getting to prove our worth. Imagine that we create true AI robots. We would be fools to simply release them into our communities without testing each one's intentions and personalities first. The ones that hate humans, habitually harm others, and love to spread negativity would probably get scrapped. But the kind and helpful ones would probably be cleared to enter our communities. Makes sense right?



Are we not capable of knowing what evil is without practicing it?

I don't understand this one. I know that rape is wrong without having raped someone, just as I knowing that torture is wrong without having tortured someone. Is there supposed to be a deeper meaning in this question?



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 05:44 PM
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a reply to: enlightenedservant

Couldn't God of NOT allowed evil but given us awareness of it? It says in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit, so that leads me to believe that sins are forgivable. Ppl make mistakes. If sins weren't forgiven there wouldn't need to be a heaven.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 06:02 PM
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a reply to: Observationalist

Not that I care but glad to see your observation skills aren't totally rusty.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 06:12 PM
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originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: chr0naut
In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.


Completely incorrect.
1. There is no "Lucifer" in any of the original scriptures.
2. There is zero scriptural evidence whatsoever for your claim that God created any being named Lucifer.
3. Lucifer isn't even a name, it's a WORD derived from the latin "lucem ferre", which means light-bringer.
4. The passage (Isiah 14:12) where "light-bringer" was turned into "Lucifer" in modern bibles was talking about a king, not Satan. Isiah 14:4 specifically says the following passages are about the king of Babylon, NOT SATAN. "4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" Just a few passages after, this becomes blatantly obvious.

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”
18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.

So, apparently the very human king of Babylon who attacked cities, took captives, died and was buried was actually Satan. I think not.
They are not separate individuals...but you did quote scripture there.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 07:07 PM
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originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc


The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.


This doctrine is not in the scriptures it is made up religious rhetoric more libelous than any TV show.The word lucifer is in the scriptures 1 time and is not a personal name .The doctrines of fallen angels is a religious extrapolation from the book of Revelation to fit religious doctrine nothing more.


The word 'lucifer' (which is not a proper name) is an attempt to translate the Hebrew word 'helel' (assumed to mean 'the shining one' or 'light-bearer') and the Septuagint's Koine Greek 'helosphorous' (meaning 'bringer of dawn' or 'the morning star' - which is the planet venus) into Vulgate Latin (Isaiah 14:12).

The Hebrew word 'helel' is also very similar in appearance to the Hebrew word 'mazzaroth' (which means 'constellations' or 'crowns') and it was also translated as lucifer in the Vulgate (Job 38:32).

The Vulgate uses the translation 'lucifer' in 2 Peter 1:19 for the Koine Greek word 'phosphorous' (meaning 'day star').

The other two places that the Vulgate uses the word 'lucifer' are: Job 11:17 and Psalm 110:3 - a total of five mentions, not one.

But, I digress, what I was referring to in my previous post was that the television show 'Lucifer' and it's character is not at all like the Biblical devil.

edit on 25/12/2016 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 07:08 PM
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originally posted by: Maxatoria
We can also ask why a being who in theory exists forever needs a son..... was fun with some preacher types....


Why does God need a son
I guess that's a great question, He doesn't
God isn't really a Father by all practical reasoning either

Sometimes when things are hard to explain or understand, simple storys or explanations are used to make the explanation easy to grasp

I remember telling a child a pimple was like a volcanoes on their face, interestingly enough, the child didn't expect burning hot larva and smoke to come flowing out



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 07:11 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc


The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.


This doctrine is not in the scriptures it is made up religious rhetoric more libelous than any TV show.The word lucifer is in the scriptures 1 time and is not a personal name .The doctrines of fallen angels is a religious extrapolation from the book of Revelation to fit religious doctrine nothing more.


The word 'lucifer' (which is not a proper name) is an attempt to translate the Hebrew word 'helel' (assumed to mean 'the shining one' or 'light-bearer') and the Septuagint's Koine Greek 'helosphorous' (meaning 'bringer of dawn' or 'the morning star' - which is the planet venus) into Vulgate Latin (Isaiah 14:12).

The Hebrew word 'helel' is also very similar in appearance to the Hebrew word 'mazzaroth' (which means 'constellations' or 'crowns') and it was also translated as lucifer in the Vulgate (Job 38:32).

The Vulgate uses the translation 'lucifer' in 2 Peter 1:19 for the Koine Greek word 'phosphorous' (meaning 'day star').

The other two places that the Vulgate uses the word 'lucifer' are: Job 11:17 and Psalm 110:3 - a total of five mentions, not one.

But, I digress, what I was referring to in my previous post was that the television show 'Lucifer' and it's character is not at all like the Biblical devil.


WHAT
Are you saying we can't trust our TV...
Next thing you will tell me is Gilligans Islamd was just a story and didn't happen



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 07:43 PM
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originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc


The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.


This doctrine is not in the scriptures it is made up religious rhetoric more libelous than any TV show.The word lucifer is in the scriptures 1 time and is not a personal name .The doctrines of fallen angels is a religious extrapolation from the book of Revelation to fit religious doctrine nothing more.


Angelic beings are mentioned througout the old and new testaments. There are several mentions of fallen angels in the Bible. The first mention is probably in Genesis 6:1-4 where it explains how the Nephilim came about. It uses the words 'ben eloyhim' (meaning 'sons of God' and used elsewhere in the Bible to describe angels except where it means the Hebrews. Since there were no Hebrews at the time of Genesis, it specifically refers to angels) and the 'Nephilim' (which means 'the fallen ones').

Jesus also said he saw "Satan fall like lightning from heaven" in Luke 10:18, it would appear that Jesus also held to the doctrine that there were fallen angels.

The book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ merely continues and completes details of a doctrine that has existed for thousands of years before it was written.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 07:50 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc


The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.


This doctrine is not in the scriptures it is made up religious rhetoric more libelous than any TV show.The word lucifer is in the scriptures 1 time and is not a personal name .The doctrines of fallen angels is a religious extrapolation from the book of Revelation to fit religious doctrine nothing more.


The word 'lucifer' (which is not a proper name) is an attempt to translate the Hebrew word 'helel' (assumed to mean 'the shining one' or 'light-bearer') and the Septuagint's Koine Greek 'helosphorous' (meaning 'bringer of dawn' or 'the morning star' - which is the planet venus) into Vulgate Latin (Isaiah 14:12).

The Hebrew word 'helel' is also very similar in appearance to the Hebrew word 'mazzaroth' (which means 'constellations' or 'crowns') and it was also translated as lucifer in the Vulgate (Job 38:32).

The Vulgate uses the translation 'lucifer' in 2 Peter 1:19 for the Koine Greek word 'phosphorous' (meaning 'day star').

The other two places that the Vulgate uses the word 'lucifer' are: Job 11:17 and Psalm 110:3 - a total of five mentions, not one.

But, I digress, what I was referring to in my previous post was that the television show 'Lucifer' and it's character is not at all like the Biblical devil.


WHAT
Are you saying we can't trust our TV...
Next thing you will tell me is Gilligans Islamd was just a story and didn't happen


Yes, and of course, the idea that a single bar owner physically located in one place has the reach to influence the entirety of humanity, multiple billions of souls, is another small plot gap.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 08:14 PM
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originally posted by: TAECOLE7
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Couldn't God of NOT allowed evil but given us awareness of it? It says in the Bible that the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the holy spirit, so that leads me to believe that sins are forgivable. Ppl make mistakes. If sins weren't forgiven there wouldn't need to be a heaven.

I didn't say sins can't be forgiven. From what I've read, sins can be forgiven if you stop committing them, ask for forgiveness, and make up for them. After all, one of the Qur'an's names for God/Allah translates as "The Merciful". But it's not enough to simply regret an action or inaction.

Then there's "shirk" (HERE), which is the unforgivable sin of attributing partners to God. I think that's technically the only unforgivable sin in Islam. But the Qur'an also says that anyone who intentionally kills a believer is going to Hell forever, so that kind of implies that it's unforgivable too (Surah 4:93, Pickthall translation).



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 09:26 PM
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originally posted by: trollz

originally posted by: chr0naut
In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.


Completely incorrect.
1. There is no "Lucifer" in any of the original scriptures.
2. There is zero scriptural evidence whatsoever for your claim that God created any being named Lucifer.
3. Lucifer isn't even a name, it's a WORD derived from the latin "lucem ferre", which means light-bringer.
4. The passage (Isiah 14:12) where "light-bringer" was turned into "Lucifer" in modern bibles was talking about a king, not Satan. Isiah 14:4 specifically says the following passages are about the king of Babylon, NOT SATAN. "4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" Just a few passages after, this becomes blatantly obvious.

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”
18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.

So, apparently the very human king of Babylon who attacked cities, took captives, died and was buried was actually Satan. I think not.


Ah, someone called 'trollz' with a graphic that says "Jesus never existed" disagrees.


You should perhaps continue reading about the kings of Babylon and of Tyre in the passsage. You may find that they describe things that no human has ever done.

Even the above passage refers to a king who will not be entombed. The king of Babylon (Nebuchadrezzar) died in Babylon between the second and sixth months of the forty-third year of his reign, and was succeeded by his son Amel-Marduk. We have no reason to believe that he wasn't normally interred like everyone else.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 09:39 PM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc


The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.


This doctrine is not in the scriptures it is made up religious rhetoric more libelous than any TV show.The word lucifer is in the scriptures 1 time and is not a personal name .The doctrines of fallen angels is a religious extrapolation from the book of Revelation to fit religious doctrine nothing more.


The word 'lucifer' (which is not a proper name) is an attempt to translate the Hebrew word 'helel' (assumed to mean 'the shining one' or 'light-bearer') and the Septuagint's Koine Greek 'helosphorous' (meaning 'bringer of dawn' or 'the morning star' - which is the planet venus) into Vulgate Latin (Isaiah 14:12).

The Hebrew word 'helel' is also very similar in appearance to the Hebrew word 'mazzaroth' (which means 'constellations' or 'crowns') and it was also translated as lucifer in the Vulgate (Job 38:32).

The Vulgate uses the translation 'lucifer' in 2 Peter 1:19 for the Koine Greek word 'phosphorous' (meaning 'day star').

The other two places that the Vulgate uses the word 'lucifer' are: Job 11:17 and Psalm 110:3 - a total of five mentions, not one.

But, I digress, what I was referring to in my previous post was that the television show 'Lucifer' and it's character is not at all like the Biblical devil.


WHAT
Are you saying we can't trust our TV...
Next thing you will tell me is Gilligans Islamd was just a story and didn't happen


Yes, and of course, the idea that a single bar owner physically located in one place has the reach to influence the entirety of humanity, multiple billions of souls, is another small plot gap.


Next I will find out tv evangelists are shisters

The scary thing is how many people actually think pop culture is the reality, they enjoy being told how to think
Sadly it's not a joke anymore
TV shows are some peoples reality



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 09:59 PM
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originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc


The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.


This doctrine is not in the scriptures it is made up religious rhetoric more libelous than any TV show.The word lucifer is in the scriptures 1 time and is not a personal name .The doctrines of fallen angels is a religious extrapolation from the book of Revelation to fit religious doctrine nothing more.


The word 'lucifer' (which is not a proper name) is an attempt to translate the Hebrew word 'helel' (assumed to mean 'the shining one' or 'light-bearer') and the Septuagint's Koine Greek 'helosphorous' (meaning 'bringer of dawn' or 'the morning star' - which is the planet venus) into Vulgate Latin (Isaiah 14:12).

The Hebrew word 'helel' is also very similar in appearance to the Hebrew word 'mazzaroth' (which means 'constellations' or 'crowns') and it was also translated as lucifer in the Vulgate (Job 38:32).

The Vulgate uses the translation 'lucifer' in 2 Peter 1:19 for the Koine Greek word 'phosphorous' (meaning 'day star').

The other two places that the Vulgate uses the word 'lucifer' are: Job 11:17 and Psalm 110:3 - a total of five mentions, not one.

But, I digress, what I was referring to in my previous post was that the television show 'Lucifer' and it's character is not at all like the Biblical devil.


WHAT
Are you saying we can't trust our TV...
Next thing you will tell me is Gilligans Islamd was just a story and didn't happen


Yes, and of course, the idea that a single bar owner physically located in one place has the reach to influence the entirety of humanity, multiple billions of souls, is another small plot gap.


Next I will find out tv evangelists are shisters

The scary thing is how many people actually think pop culture is the reality, they enjoy being told how to think
Sadly it's not a joke anymore
TV shows are some peoples reality


They elected Trump based upon...?


edit on 25/12/2016 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:04 PM
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originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: Kukri

I also seem to remember,that story is in the book of revelations ,so at the time the story was written it hadn`t happened yet it was a prophecy of what would happen in the future.
so, what was the point of jesus coming here since at that time the war in heaven hadn`t happened yet and satan was still in heaven.



Well it would seem nobody wants to tackle this inconvenient observation. I figured with all the Christians around these parts somebody could of set me/us straight. I don't know maybe I'm so far off base they're all shaking their heads in disbelief.



posted on Dec, 25 2016 @ 10:21 PM
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He was Cherubim. Created pure. The most beautiful. Sin was found in him, due to his pride. He wanted to be like the most High. He wanted to rule and be like God.
But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' 15"Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.…

It was a rebellion, and he took 1/3 of all the angelic beings with him. There was war against God and His angels. He lost.
None of the fallen angels were forgiven. They had also taken human wives, and polluted the human gene pool they were supposed to be watchers over.

God new long before creation this would happen. He used it for his purpose is claiming those who love him as His own.
All things work together for good, for those who Love (obey) the Lord, and are called for his purpose
Merry Christmas



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 01:55 AM
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originally posted by: auto3000
Ok, so bear with me.... If God can forgive man of murder, genocide, every sin he could commit then why cant Satan be forgiven? Why can't the angels that believed in him and followed him be forgiven? Because I assure you they realize it was the wrong thing to do after they did it. Why can't a man burning in hell that is screaming for help be forgiven? My son murders someone, i can forgive him, just as i forgave the man that killed my brother. God created us just as he created Satan and all of the fallen and SIN & EVIL. So you love your child, they commit sin, and burn screaming in torment for eternity? God also knows what you are going to do before he even created us, so why create sin if it will hurt us and make the innocent suffer? Free will? Couldn't we live without it? Are we not capable of knowing what evil is without practicing it?

You aren't seriously looking for logic in religion, are you?

You are supposed to believe it, not question it.



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 06:11 AM
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originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Rex282

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc


The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.


This doctrine is not in the scriptures it is made up religious rhetoric more libelous than any TV show.The word lucifer is in the scriptures 1 time and is not a personal name .The doctrines of fallen angels is a religious extrapolation from the book of Revelation to fit religious doctrine nothing more.


The word 'lucifer' (which is not a proper name) is an attempt to translate the Hebrew word 'helel' (assumed to mean 'the shining one' or 'light-bearer') and the Septuagint's Koine Greek 'helosphorous' (meaning 'bringer of dawn' or 'the morning star' - which is the planet venus) into Vulgate Latin (Isaiah 14:12).

The Hebrew word 'helel' is also very similar in appearance to the Hebrew word 'mazzaroth' (which means 'constellations' or 'crowns') and it was also translated as lucifer in the Vulgate (Job 38:32).

The Vulgate uses the translation 'lucifer' in 2 Peter 1:19 for the Koine Greek word 'phosphorous' (meaning 'day star').

The other two places that the Vulgate uses the word 'lucifer' are: Job 11:17 and Psalm 110:3 - a total of five mentions, not one.

But, I digress, what I was referring to in my previous post was that the television show 'Lucifer' and it's character is not at all like the Biblical devil.


WHAT
Are you saying we can't trust our TV...
Next thing you will tell me is Gilligans Islamd was just a story and didn't happen


Yes, and of course, the idea that a single bar owner physically located in one place has the reach to influence the entirety of humanity, multiple billions of souls, is another small plot gap.


Next I will find out tv evangelists are shisters

The scary thing is how many people actually think pop culture is the reality, they enjoy being told how to think
Sadly it's not a joke anymore
TV shows are some peoples reality


They elected Trump based upon...?



Based upon the fact he wasn't hillary



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 07:26 AM
link   

originally posted by: Tardacus
a reply to: Kukri

I also seem to remember,that story is in the book of revelations ,so at the time the story was written it hadn`t happened yet it was a prophecy of what would happen in the future.
so, what was the point of jesus coming here since at that time the war in heaven hadn`t happened yet and satan was still in heaven.



This is my understanding based on the Book of Revelation, that Satan is still in heaven until he rebels with one third of the angels in heaven and is then cast down to Earth. This war in heaven hasn't even occurred yet apparently, although Satan was cursed in The Book of Genesis. He hasn't been thrown in to hell yet and he won't rule there either but be tormented like everyone else that gets thrown in there.

The devil or Satan can come to Earth anytime he wants to to deceive mankind though and has tried to do that to Christ while he was here. Demons are supposedly the spirits of the now deceased offspring of angels that mated with human females before the flood, not fallen angels. It really is pretty confusing to understand and something I've been meaning to look into after noticing how screwy the story line is in the Lucifer TV series.
edit on 26-12-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: typo

edit on 26-12-2016 by MichiganSwampBuck because: another typo



posted on Dec, 26 2016 @ 08:27 AM
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a reply to: auto3000
Does God Forgive Serious Sins? Awake!—2008

The Bible’s Viewpoint
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Consider some Bible examples that reveal the extent of God’s mercy.

The apostle Peter denied Christ three times. (Mark 14:66-72) While an unbeliever, the apostle Paul persecuted Christ’s followers. When certain ones of these were to be executed, Paul voted against them. He even approved of the murder of one of them. (Acts 8:1, 3; 9:1, 2, 11; 26:10, 11; Galatians 1:13) Before becoming Christians, certain members of the congregation in Corinth had been drunkards, extortioners, and thieves. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11) Yet, all these came to enjoy divine favor. Why did God forgive them?

Three Steps to Gaining God’s Mercy

“I was shown mercy, because I was ignorant and acted with a lack of faith,” wrote Paul. (1 Timothy 1:13) His frank expression brings us to the first step required for gaining God’s forgiveness—lifting the veil of ignorance by getting an accurate knowledge of Jehovah and his standards as outlined in the Bible. (2 Timothy 3:16, 17) To be sure, we cannot please our Creator if we do not know him well. “This means everlasting life,” said Jesus in prayer to his Father, “their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.”—John 17:3.

When honesthearted ones gain that knowledge, they deeply regret their past wrongs and are moved to express heartfelt repentance. That is the second step toward gaining God’s forgiveness. Says Acts 3:19: “Repent, therefore, and turn around so as to get your sins blotted out.”

That verse also mentions the third step—turning around. To turn around means to abandon one’s old ways and attitudes and to adopt God’s standards and viewpoints. (Acts 26:20) Simply put, a person shows by his new way of life that he really means it when he says to God, “I am sorry.”

God Is Not All-Forgiving

There are some people whose sins God does not forgive. Wrote Paul: “If we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of [condemnatory] judgment.” (Hebrews 10:26, 27) The words “practice sin willfully” suggest deeply ingrained badness, a truly wicked heart.

Judas Iscariot developed such a heart. “It would have been finer for him if that man had not been born,” said Jesus. (Matthew 26:24, 25) And concerning certain religious leaders of his day, Jesus said: “You are from your father the Devil . . . When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie.” (John 8:44) Like Satan, those men were bad to the core. They were not sorry for what they had done but became even more hardened in their wicked ways.* True, because of imperfection and weakness, even genuine Christians sin, sometimes seriously. But their failings do not reflect an entrenched evil disposition.—Galatians 6:1.

Merciful to the Last

It is not only the sin but also the attitude of the sinner that Jehovah notes. (Isaiah 1:16-19) Reflect for a moment on the two evildoers impaled alongside Jesus. Both had evidently committed serious crimes, for one of the men admitted: “We are receiving in full what we deserve for things we did; but this man [Jesus] did nothing out of the way.” The evildoer’s words indicate that he knew something about Jesus. And that knowledge likely contributed to a wholesome change in his attitude. This is indicated by what he said next, this time imploring Jesus: “Remember me when you get into your kingdom.” How did Christ respond to that heartfelt entreaty? “Truly I tell you today,” he said, “You will be with me in Paradise.”—Luke 23:41-43.

Think about that: Jesus’ final statements as a human included an expression of mercy toward a man who had admitted to deserving the death penalty. How encouraging that is! We can be sure, then, that both Jesus Christ and his Father, Jehovah, will show compassion toward all who manifest true repentance, regardless of their past deeds.—Romans 4:7.

In short: it's conditional and Satan doesn't qualify for the bolded condition above. Explained in more detail in the rest of the article and the article behind the * which a person may overlook.
edit on 26-12-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



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