Why can't God forgive Satan if he can forgive man?

Ok, so bear with me.... If God can forgive man of murder, genocide, every sin he could commit then why cant Satan be forgiven? Why can't the angels that believed in him and followed him be forgiven? Because I assure you they realize it was the wrong thing to do after they did it. Why can't a man burning in hell that is screaming for help be forgiven? My son murders someone, i can forgive him, just as i forgave the man that killed my brother. God created us just as he created Satan and all of the fallen and SIN & EVIL. So you love your child, they commit sin, and burn screaming in torment for eternity? God also knows what you are going to do before he even created us, so why create sin if it will hurt us and make the innocent suffer? Free will? Couldn't we live without it? Are we not capable of knowing what evil is without practicing it?

a reply to: auto3000

Pretty obvious. Satan is not sorry about anything.

Did Satan actually ever do anything wrong?

All the terrible things done to and by man were ordered by God.

If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc

a reply to: auto3000

Okay so from what I gather for God to forgive someone they have to truly be sorry and regret what they did and what actions they took. They can't just say they're sorry and God okays it, it doesn't work like that. I think they have to truly be sorry and wish to repent and ask for forgiveness but I doubt the devil would want that, his time in Hell he has ruled (according to most religions) so he is sort of in the job that he wanted when it came to going against god the only difference is that the angels that came with him have been twisted and turned evil or whatever happens - So yh I think it's more about them asking and wanting forgiveness at least that's my take so don't take it as the right answer lol.

Because God always wants to be Good. If he forgives Satan, it will prove God's love is corrupt. Therefore invalidating Jesus's forgiveness of sins and making his blood unworthy.

My last response was invalid.

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc

The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.

a reply to: auto3000

He can and will

1 Corinthians 15.

God will be all in all. The word all literally means all things. Everything that exists.

The lake of fire is not eternal punishment but aionian (referring to the age to come) fire that purges all evil, wood, hay, stubble, dross until all that's left is precious metals, gems.

That's if you believe Satan to be a being. I don't. In that case Satan is destroyed because that is the wood hay stubble dross. It is our dark nature that will be purified from us.

Either way in the end all will be one with God.

a reply to: auto3000

I'll answer in an islamic prespective, if I may.

First, what does Quran say about Satan and why was he 'kicked out' of heaven.

It is We Who created you and gave you shape; then We bade the angels bow down to Adam, and they bowed down; not so Iblis; He refused to be of those who bow down. (God) said: “What prevented thee from bowing down when I commanded thee?” He said: “I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay.” (God) said: “Get thee down from this: it is not for thee to be arrogant here: get out, for thou art of the meanest (of creatures).” (7: 11–13)


He said, “Seest Thou? This is the one whom Thou hast honoured above me! If Thou wilt but respite me to the Day of Judgement, I will surely bring his descendants under my sway – All but a few!” (God) said: “Go thy way; if any of them follow thee, verily Hell will be the recompense of you (all) – an ample recompense. And arouse those whom thou canst among them, with thy (seductive) voice; make assaults on them with thy cavalry and thy infantry; mutually share with them wealth and children; and make promises to them. But Satan promises them nothing but deceit. As for My servants, no authority shalt thou have over them: Enough is thy Lord for a Disposer of affairs.” (17: 62–65)

(Iblis/Satan) said: “O my Lord! Give me then respite till the Day the (dead) are raised.” (God) said: “Respite is granted thee till the Day of the Time appointed.” (Iblis) said: “O my Lord! Because Thou hast put me in the wrong, I will make (wrong) fair-seeming to them on the earth, and I will put them all in the wrong, Except Thy servants among them, sincere and purified (by Thy Grace).” (God) said: “This (way of My sincere servants) is indeed a way that leads straight to Me. For over My servants no authority shalt thou have, except such as put themselves in the wrong and follow thee.” (15: 36–42)

He said: “Because thou hast thrown me out of the way, lo! I will lie in wait for them on thy straight way: Then will I assault them from before them and behind them, from their right and their left: Nor wilt thou find, in most of them, gratitude (for thy mercies).” (God) said: “Get out from this, disgraced and expelled. If any of them follow thee – Hell will I fill with you all.” (7: 16–18)

And Satan will say when the matter is decided: “It was God Who gave you a promise of Truth: I too promised, but I failed in my promise to you. I had no authority over you except to call you but ye listened to me: then reproach not me, but reproach your own souls. I cannot listen to your cries, nor can ye listen to mine. I reject your former act in associating me with God. For wrong-doers there must be a grievous penalty.” (14: 22)


Important thing to mention:

It is a core belief in Islam that Satan is not an Angel, as Angels are not beings that have free will and therefore it is impossible for them to disobey God. Satan and his army ('Fallen angels') are all from the jinn kind.


If Satan is not an angel, why did he have acces to heaven?

From amongst the Jinn, Iblees (Satan) was the most pious and righteous of all, in fact he had reached such a high level that he was in the company of the Angels in the heavens due to his piety, it was when Allah (God) created Adam, the first human being, that Iblees’ downfall began.

This answers some of your questions:

What is Satan’s role vis-à-vis man? Does Satan have overwhelming power over man, so much so that the latter cannot walk the path of submission to and harmony with the will of God? If this is the case, how can one understand this “God-given” domineering power? And how can one reconcile this with God’s Justice? The God who threatens man with punishment, if he rebelled against His commands, while making it possible for Satan to lure him away from the right path? This could be the impression that is predominant among the generality of people, as a way of blaming Satan for many of the ills they are afflicted with and for being noncommittal. Thus, they find in Satan a whipping boy, i.e., to their mind, their going astray is a natural result of falling to Satan’s devices. However, the Holy Quran paints a different picture.

Satan has no power to exert on man, apart from trying to mislead him by way of devilish insinuations and creating tempting conditions for man to commit what is vile. Man, on the other hand, has been endowed with conscious intellect that can draw the line between good and evil and be clear on the Divine messages, which open up all the roads to acquire the necessary knowledge to lead to God’s way. Man has also been graced with a strong will that helps in the process of sound decision-making and walking with firm steps on the right path.

This is what makes the struggle between man and Satan an equal one. In this fight, man has the free will to make choices amidst evil inclinations, tempting climates, and devilish suggestions. Yet, he has the means, of willpower, intellect, and conviction, to emerge victorious from this standoff, without giving in to factors of weakness or failure.

In portraying the character of Satan and his part in misleading man, the Holy Quran has provoked in the mind of the believers the strength of conviction that is capable of defeating all the forces of evil, especially with the weapons of mental power and strong belief, should he use them in the struggle. As for those who fall victim to his temptations, their failure is not due to intrinsic weakness but rather, because they contributed to paralysing, and eventually neutralizing, the powers at their disposal.

In this light, we should now know that lengthening Satan’s life till the Day of Judgement, and giving him the freedom to seduce man, who is armed with all the weapons necessary to put up a determined fight, into leaving the right way is a sign of confidence in man. This is so that man should be able to choose his destiny on account of his will and capability, not because of coercion and repression that could weaken his resolve and make him buckle under pressure. This is the difference between one who gets influenced by events and falls under their sway, and one who is the master of his own destiny and who makes the events subservient to his willpower and choice.

a reply to: chr0naut

Lucifer isn't Satan. By any account, he was mentioned twice in two different books. (Estimating here) no way can Satan be Lucifer. One was a light bearer, the other a judge so to speak.

originally posted by: chr0naut

originally posted by: Maxatoria
If watching Lucifer the Tv series it does pose the answer in that he was there to punish people, he was always honest and we don't know yet who made the decision of upstairs or downstairs.

And watching the series you can see that he never wanted the job of lord of hell etc

The TV series is not accurate to the Biblical Lucifer.

In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

The TV show is fun but I wouldn't take it as a guide.

This doctrine is not in the scriptures it is made up religious rhetoric more libelous than any TV show.The word lucifer is in the scriptures 1 time and is not a personal name .The doctrines of fallen angels is a religious extrapolation from the book of Revelation to fit religious doctrine nothing more.

Gee... And all this time I thought Lucifer was the name of the Vatican's super telescope.
Satan doesn't exist.

I thought alll this war in Heaven and casting out of Heaven was part of Revelations and hasn't happened yet?

Hmmm. Guess I got that part of the Bible wrong!

We can also ask why a being who in theory exists forever needs a son..... was fun with some preacher types....

originally posted by: chr0naut
In the Bible, Lucifer was a created being, not a son of God. He rebelled against God and took 1/3 of the angels with him into revolt. Lucifer accuses the faithful before God. He is a liar, war-monger, murderer, theif, causes sickness and disease, a tempter and has delusions of grandeur, wanting to take God's place.

Completely incorrect.
1. There is no "Lucifer" in any of the original scriptures.
2. There is zero scriptural evidence whatsoever for your claim that God created any being named Lucifer.
3. Lucifer isn't even a name, it's a WORD derived from the latin "lucem ferre", which means light-bringer.
4. The passage (Isiah 14:12) where "light-bringer" was turned into "Lucifer" in modern bibles was talking about a king, not Satan. Isiah 14:4 specifically says the following passages are about the king of Babylon, NOT SATAN. "4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:" Just a few passages after, this becomes blatantly obvious.

16 Those who see you stare at you,
they ponder your fate:
“Is this the man who shook the earth
and made kingdoms tremble,
17 the man who made the world a wilderness,
who overthrew its cities
and would not let his captives go home?”
18 All the kings of the nations lie in state,
each in his own tomb.
19 But you are cast out of your tomb
like a rejected branch;
you are covered with the slain,
with those pierced by the sword,
those who descend to the stones of the pit.
Like a corpse trampled underfoot,
20 you will not join them in burial,
for you have destroyed your land
and killed your people.

So, apparently the very human king of Babylon who attacked cities, took captives, died and was buried was actually Satan. I think not.

a reply to: auto3000

Satan is not human, he was created in a different relm with different rules. Forgiveness is a distinction reserved for humans not fallen angels.

originally posted by: Maxatoria
We can also ask why a being who in theory exists forever needs a son..... was fun with some preacher types....

Because apparently playing mind games with humanity and getting a kick out of seeing who he gets to send to an eternal Hell for all eternity is more amusing than simply appearing in the sky and saying "Hey, I'm God. I love you all, so I forgive you. Now be nice to each other."

Lucifer and Satan are not the same individual contrary to most Abrahamics beliefs. God also doesn't need to forgive them because angels have no souls, they did what they were created to do.

To be fair though it's all a bunch of mythological garbage. A mishmash of Mesopotamian and Egyptian beliefs. The abrahamic religions don't even make sense in relation to themselves let alone to the reality of the world we live in.

God's all powerful then he's not, then he fights other gods, then they don't exist then he's a bigot, then not, yadda yadda yadda.. For an all seeing all knowing all being source of all that is, Jews Christians and Muslims really like pretending that a supreme being is as limited, fearful and backwards as they are.

I love how everyone seems to have their own version of a fake God and devil.

Fools.

a reply to: Kukri

I also seem to remember,that story is in the book of revelations ,so at the time the story was written it hadn`t happened yet it was a prophecy of what would happen in the future.
so, what was the point of jesus coming here since at that time the war in heaven hadn`t happened yet and satan was still in heaven.