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Women and equality

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posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

Please don't have children.




posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 01:19 PM
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a reply to: johnnyjoe1979
The number of inventions by men is a result of the patriarchal society. Did you know woman couldn't vote and were kept out of schools because they were thought inferior to men?

Example:
www.wjeis.org - THE ROLE OF WOMEN IN EDUCATION IN VICTORIAN ENGLAND...

Victorian families raised their daughters in such an atmosphere that submission to men, being good at housework and looking after children were the fixed gender roles imprinted on their memories at their early ages. They were confined to their private spheres. Higher education was seen as unnecessary by their family and the society. They just could find works which didn’t require high qualifications, such as needle work, cleaning, baby sitting. Men even didn’t condescend to talk to them about politics, art, business and science. What was expected from a woman was to be a charming and decorative housewife who made the home and food ready for her husband and children.

It was not until 1870 that girl’s education was taken into account by the British authorities. After Education Act was taken into effect in 1870, elementary education for both sexes became compulsory. Thanks to that Act, the girls began to learn reading, writing and arithmatic. Few girls had the chance to have the secondary education for the families took their sons into consideration. Thomson maintains that English families, even upper class parents didn’t consider their daughters’ secondary education till 1880 and 1890s.

Sigmund Freud is a famous neurologist and psychoanalyst. He's also famously known for describing woman as inferior, resulting from their lack of penis and hence their penis envy. They couldn't have a superego like men. Of course he was born in 1856, steeped in the patriarchal society of that time.

More can be found here:
ww3.haverford.edu - Notes on Freud's theory of femininity...

The theory of penis envy was incorrect and tied to his times:
www.livescience.com - Is Penis Envy Real?...
edit on 12/18/2016 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 01:23 PM
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originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979
True, but you have to accept the fact it was all founded by males. The guys build the ships to get the women on the other side, the guys invented the pens, writing, everything you see in that picture is invented by guys.


Perhaps because women were denied an education and women in the past were not given the opportunity men had to study, learn and invent/create things.

Equality means equality of rights, such as the right to: vote, have custody of their children, study, earn the same, etc, all rights that women only achieved in the past century (more or less).

EDIT: I see Johnnywhite posted about education whilst I was typing.

edit on 18-12-2016 by Agartha because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: jonnywhite
to be fair though, many of the boys didn't get much of an education back then either. it was more a matter of you learned what you needed to fullfill your station in life.. if your dad was a blacksmith, you'd learn alot about running a blacksmith business but next to nothing about anything else.
and well if you were a daughter of nobility, you would probably learn to read and write, since that would draw better suiters for you to be married off to.

but as far as women not inventing or contributing, I challenge that, I think many did, only their contributions would have been rejected if it was known to have come from them so their husbands would take the credit for them.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: jonnywhite
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979
The number of inventions by men is a result of the patriarchal society.


Yes and if a woman started it all it would have been a matriarchal society and it would all be female inventions and it's all fair because there is the word to describe a society where women would be the boss.



Sigmund Freud is a famous neurologist and psychoanalyst. He's also famously known for describing woman as inferior, resulting from their lack of penis and hence their penis envy. They couldn't have a superego like men. Of course he was born in 1856, steeped in the patriarchal society of that time.


Look times have changed, if women are inferior because they lack a penis then they can just grow or transplant one and have it sown to their bodies in a way it would be credible. It might have happened, or still happen but it's what it's leading to after all that surgery which was mostly done by males. However, if they would do that another problem would present itself because they would have 2 things while everybody else would have 1 thing so that wouldn't be fair. Unless males start to make vagina's, and I'm sure some poor guy will do that because he loves a woman and all that. But I say enough is enough already. Let it go, it's ancient stuff, it doesn't apply anymore, come up with something better. Which is another problem because if one psychiatrist says he knows something better, than he's saying he's greater than Freud, which can't be so then it wouldn't be psychiatry and then it would turn into something else most likely even more evil. And psychiatry was pretty evil. And did you know Freud was a snorter as in a coc aine junkie.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 01:48 PM
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originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: jonnywhite
to be fair though, many of the boys didn't get much of an education back then either. it was more a matter of you learned what you needed to fullfill your station in life.. if your dad was a blacksmith, you'd learn alot about running a blacksmith business but next to nothing about anything else.
and well if you were a daughter of nobility, you would probably learn to read and write, since that would draw better suiters for you to be married off to.

but as far as women not inventing or contributing, I challenge that, I think many did, only their contributions would have been rejected if it was known to have come from them so their husbands would take the credit for them.



Contributions; lots, inventions; I beg to differ. Nice story about the old days.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 01:49 PM
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originally posted by: Agartha

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979
True, but you have to accept the fact it was all founded by males. The guys build the ships to get the women on the other side, the guys invented the pens, writing, everything you see in that picture is invented by guys.


Perhaps because women were denied an education and women in the past were not given the opportunity men had to study, learn and invent/create things.

Equality means equality of rights, such as the right to: vote, have custody of their children, study, earn the same, etc, all rights that women only achieved in the past century (more or less).

EDIT: I see Johnnywhite posted about education whilst I was typing.


All true, but it's only a matter of time until all women on the planet can vote. However, not all know what voting really means and then it wouldn't be funny. This pretty much goes for all things and you can even make the best mother doubt herself if you know stuff.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 02:14 PM
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a reply to: johnnyjoe1979



Most importantly it's the guys that do the actual abortion or approve of it in some way, so the responsibility is theirs.


Wrong. Traditionally, it was the women, midwives, who performed abortions. It's only recent history that barred women from becoming doctors, and insisting that only doctors perform abortions. Now, women too can obtain medical degrees and both deliver children and perform abortions! Closer to equality, but still not completely there!



Really it is a whole system of masters and lesser masters


"Masters" being the doctors, I presume? Because the legislators continually ignore the doctors when it comes to trying legislate abortion and women's reproductive rights.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 02:16 PM
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Men also had to fight for "equality". The right to vote, the right to own property, and so on, was a war first fought by men. Maybe a little gratitude is in order.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 02:29 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope



was a war first fought by men.


I doubt that. The first war was probably fought by the entire population of the village, town or settlement, including men women and children.

But, I am quite certain that the first people to abandon their women and children, banding together to go off and conquer other people's villages, orchards, livestock, women and children were men.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: windword

That's not what I said. I said the right to vote, the right to own property, and so on, was a war first fought by men.

Men went to war to fight for their women and children, not to abandon them.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979




You wanted it, you got it, this is it, you forgot about responsibility.


No, we haven't "got it". And, we won't have it until men stop telling women what to do with their own bodies.



I will work on the assumption that you're talking about abortion rights.
Well if it's your body and your choice I can deal with that, no problem.
But then birth control is also your responsibility and so is the financial issues that come with child birth.

Your body, your choice.


Just to add guys can get sterilized too, put on a condom, or take a pill. So that's not an argument anymore. Once it's there sure but then the question is more about if the woman wanted to be with the guy or not. And with female bodybuilders and martial artists, that's going to be difficult to decide as an outsider.



That's not really the point.
If a women gets pregnant she is totally in charge of the decision to keep or abort the baby.
The argument is that it's her body.
My point is since the man gets no say in the matter, why can he be held financially responsible?
It was her body, the body she has control over. Where does the mans opinion cease to mean anything?

FYI, I'm not against abortion. Just feel these are questions that need resolved.



Wow your post was met with crickets. They don't see these issues you propose, give them no credit because in as much as they do to what ever degree they lose control of the argument and that lofty position.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 03:04 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope



Men went to war to fight for their women and children, not to abandon them.


You don't go away to defend your women and children, you stay and stand your ground. Women and children are abandoned for the purpose of conquering more property so that someone else can say they own it now!

Men may have fought for self rule from other men, but men didn't shed blood for women's right to vote. Women's rights are fought right here at home, in courts and through legislation. Bullets and bombs are rarely used.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: windword

I never said men defended women by going to fight for them. Another misrepresentation. I said men fought for their women and children, their entire communities, and not just for one specific gender.

We don't use bullets and bombs for women's rights because the necessary blood shed for rights has already occurred. Women have the same rights as men in every liberal democracy because men have already fought and died for them.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 03:49 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope

men fought for those rights FOR MEN....
men and women fought for those rights for the ex slaves...
and it was quite a bit later that women managed to accomplish it for themselves...with some men's help...

also, I am pretty sure that women played parts in all of it... you just wish to be blind to the part that they played.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 03:54 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

Of course women had played parts in it. Men were mostly raised by women. Men have always fought for women, but the same cannot be said of women fighting for men.
edit on 18-12-2016 by LesMisanthrope because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 04:34 PM
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a reply to: LesMisanthrope
woa there bud!!!
you are talking out of both sides of your mouth or one of us is confused...
first you seem to be talking about men fighting for rights, ya know, taxation coming with representation, right to property, right to vote...
and then you are saying that men were fighting for women...
well, when it came to fighting for these rights, like in the revolutionary war, they obviously weren't fight for women to have these rights since widowed women were probably the biggest victims of unfair taxation for quite awhile after this! and they weren't allowed to own property, any property had to be held in a trust by a guardian, who was male, and they didn't get the right to representation for quite awhile! heck, they didn't even have the right to their own earnings!

and isn't it ironic that the first states to recognize these rights for women were in the west, where the women stood along side men and fought off the indian attacks and worked just as hard as most of the men in their daily lives.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 05:00 PM
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Um, Opie -

About that pic Windword put up here....

You got any book learnin? They tell you in school who Betsy Ross was? My drinking buddy here pointed that out - and she's from Egypt.

Said friend has been urging me to write something about Feminism here, but I'm not quite sure how to say it. Dawnstar and others talking about men deserting their kids is a big part of it for women like us. And we know lots of women like us. Who were abandoned by their fathers.

Who were not deadbeats either. Not at the outset. They were vey likely very much like you. "Wanting to start a family". They had the education and decent jobs and bought the homes in suburbia. And it may as well have been the freaking Brady Bunch! Split level houses and all. Until - it wasn't. Until - dad took off. I know so very, very, many people like this, who come from broken homes. And look right here - there's even more people saying the same thing!

We chose work over this lifestyle. THIS is why we are Feminists. We don't want the problems our mothers and grand mothers faced. It's not about hating men, it's not about "Second Wave" or "Rad Fem" or whatever all that is - it's simply about avoiding marriage and kids and living in suburbia. MEN seem hot for this lifestyle for some reason - until they tire of it and then take off. And then more often then not they hook up with another woman and repeat the process! Uh - why?

And in the work place - which men are hitting on you, slobbering after you like dogs? The "family men". OK Zoey here has a senior citizen hot for her, who is married, he's on his 3rd or 4th wife. Why can't you men be happy with what you have? What you chose?

And let's be honest here - more often than not you - while you may want "a family" - what you REALLY WANT is to lock the woman down through kids. And then when this lifestyle doesn't measure up to what you saw on TV - you're out the door.

One thing that always baffled me, I remembered this from my youth, you could even say around the age of 25. You'd talk with men, you'd still remember your "child hood years", and how parents were too strict and assholes. And how boring and conformist suburbia is, and HOW GLAD! you were to be FREE of that!!! But then - the men want to get married and have kids and go right back into that.

Um, WHY? When you were just griping about the horrors of it all? DUDE. HELLO. You're never going to be Led Zeppelin if you get married and have kids. The party ENDS when you have kids! And who in the hell wants to live in suburbia? Why not just kill yourself?

"Feminism" for women like us is not the raging bitchiness men seem to think it is. Nor does it come from academia and all their ins and outs of it. For people like us, men included, it comes from living through the Fascist HORROR that is suburbia and how hard we worked to escape that and how we will NEVER go back! And NO KIDS! If abortion is what it takes, then that's what it takes. ANYTHING to avoid this ABJECT MISERY!

It's funny to me how men seem to WANT this lifestyle so badly, but they don't want to work for it, and even if they do and it turns out to be not what they thought (like the TV said it would be) - then they blame women and blow town. Where as on the other side of the coin - women KNOW what this all is and we see it as nothing but grunt work and we want no part of it.

My friend says you all should read about Marxist Feminism because what this all boils down to is capitalism, to get you to breed more consumers and be forced to work for your corporate over lords.

Why I think men are so keen to get into this is - I blame women. Specifically mothers of boys. They baby and love on those boys too much. Men and women are raised differently. Boys are babied, girls are made to work. It's especially bad in the US. Friend here says it's the same in the middle east and "Israel and Egypt are US proxy states". Yes it's the same there. OMG there's a suburb of Cairo called Beverly Hills! It's the same BS the world over as far as I can see, in Western places anyway. Don't fall for it.

You're better off alone. Or, with a person who will put in just as much effort as you do. Most men put in little to NO effort. They do believe that mom is going to handle the house and kids and all they will have to do is work a basic job. That isn't going to cut it. You will need more money. And you will need to participate in this "family life" you want so much. You can't spend all your free time parked in dive bars griping about the wife and kids.

And isn't it OBVIOUS? You won't have these gripes if you STAY SINGLE! And do not breed! DO NOT GIVE THE CAPITALISTS WHAT THEY WANT! They ONLY want you to breed more consumers so they can make $ off of your backs! It's animal breeding as applied to humans! DO NOT BE FOOLED.

Women don't want responsibility? HONEY - ALL the responsibility has been shoved off on us while you men had your good times, and then left for greener pastures, and we are SICK OF IT. And this is why women like us OPTED OUT of the whole freaking mess.

Take a look at yourself. What are YOU willing to contribute? That's another thing I notice with the "traditional types" complaining about women. They complain about "Feminazis", they gripe about women working and getting better education and better jobs, they gripe about their lot in life, they whine about what they want -

But NEVER have I seen even ONE of these types talk about what THEY will do to make their plans happen. NEVER. I never see any guy saying something like "I've been through school and got a good job and I am working and saving, and I thought all this through carefully, and I really do want to marry and have kids and I even took some classes in child development so I can be a good father." NEVER. Never have seen anything like this.

All I have seen is griping and whining over why they don't have a mommy to take care of them. Look - if you want that so bad - why not just go move back in with your mother?



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 05:04 PM
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a reply to: dawnstar

"Women and children first", for instance on the Titanic. Men fight the wars so the women and children didn't have to. That's not saying they didn't have to fight when set upon by marauders.

The same occurred with rights. All women had to do was take advantage of the rights that were already fought for, and men gave it to them.



posted on Dec, 18 2016 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: LesMisanthrope
Men also had to fight for "equality". The right to vote, the right to own property, and so on, was a war first fought by men. Maybe a little gratitude is in order.


No that's just a stupid evil game. Because that was between two tribes of men, not men vs women.



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