Women and equality

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

???? my grandfather didn't go that far, he went a few blocks over, walking distance to the house my father was living in. my father never knew where he lived even, no visits, nothing. the father of the family with six kids was a lawyer, I doubt if he went off to fight a war....
and the fathers of those today?? most of those aren't fighting in wars either...
my father did fight in a war though...

Look all we do is fight with eachother over the same thing over and over again. Lawyers fight just as much, it's 2 lawyers pitted against eachother in a room with a judge as a referee, that's like a dojo and a match, really.

a reply to: Bluntone22

because... he at least had a part in creating that baby, which can't be said about the taxpayers who are probably pitching in to support the baby also??
are you saying that men should be able to force a women to have an abortion or get out of child support if she refuses?
an abortion is an intrusion on a women's body... so no, you can't force her to get one, how would you? are you gonna kidnap her and transport her to the abortion clinic and hold her down while the procedure is done??
and no, the taxpayers shouldn't be left holding the males part of the bag...sorry!

originally posted by: Bluntone22

That's not really the point.
If a women gets pregnant she is totally in charge of the decision to keep or abort the baby.
The argument is that it's her body.
My point is since the man gets no say in the matter, why can he be held financially responsible?
It was her body, the body she has control over. Where does the mans opinion cease to mean anything?

FYI, I'm not against abortion. Just feel these are questions that need resolved.

Ok, but why are there no clinics with female only staff, like a hospital owned by a woman and then they can decide. But they still need a male to do it. That's just really evil, there are lots of female physicians, lots of women with lots of money, I can't explain it so it must be evil.

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

You wanted it, you got it, this is it, you forgot about responsibility.

No, we haven't "got it". And, we won't have it until men stop telling women what to do with their own bodies.

I will work on the assumption that you're talking about abortion rights.
Well if it's your body and your choice I can deal with that, no problem.
But then birth control is also your responsibility and so is the financial issues that come with child birth.

Your body, your choice.

Just to add guys can get sterilized too, put on a condom, or take a pill. So that's not an argument anymore. Once it's there sure but then the question is more about if the woman wanted to be with the guy or not. And with female bodybuilders and martial artists, that's going to be difficult to decide as an outsider.

That's not really the point.
If a women gets pregnant she is totally in charge of the decision to keep or abort the baby.
The argument is that it's her body.
My point is since the man gets no say in the matter, why can he be held financially responsible?
It was her body, the body she has control over. Where does the mans opinion cease to mean anything?

FYI, I'm not against abortion. Just feel these are questions that need resolved.

OK a solution, if the man doesn't want the child but the woman does it anyway, the child will be half dead for all of eternity. So it's spirit will be forever incomplete.

If the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't want it, then again the child will be half dead for all of eternity. Would that work for you?

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979
there are female abortionists....

still searching for some understanding here....
just what is on your mind???

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: johnnyjoe1979

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

You wanted it, you got it, this is it, you forgot about responsibility.

No, we haven't "got it". And, we won't have it until men stop telling women what to do with their own bodies.

I will work on the assumption that you're talking about abortion rights.
Well if it's your body and your choice I can deal with that, no problem.
But then birth control is also your responsibility and so is the financial issues that come with child birth.

Your body, your choice.

Just to add guys can get sterilized too, put on a condom, or take a pill. So that's not an argument anymore. Once it's there sure but then the question is more about if the woman wanted to be with the guy or not. And with female bodybuilders and martial artists, that's going to be difficult to decide as an outsider.

That's not really the point.
If a women gets pregnant she is totally in charge of the decision to keep or abort the baby.
The argument is that it's her body.
My point is since the man gets no say in the matter, why can he be held financially responsible?
It was her body, the body she has control over. Where does the mans opinion cease to mean anything?

FYI, I'm not against abortion. Just feel these are questions that need resolved.

OK a solution, if the man doesn't want the child but the woman does it anyway, the child will be half dead for all of eternity. So it's spirit will be forever incomplete.

If the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't want it, then again the child will be half dead for all of eternity. Would that work for you?

Extreme conclusions deserve just a little confirmation via a reputable link. Otherwise is just cognitive shortcuts or ordinary silly BS.

Do people with incomplete spirits get paid less or more than women.

a reply to: dawnstar


I don't believe I said any of that.
I just asked a question.
Both people had a part in the pregnancy. True,
Both are equally responsible. True,
Unless she does or doesn't want the kid, that's all her choice. Also true.

The question is still valid.
Where did his opinion lose all value?

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979


I'm beginning to wonder if you are a lil hung over from last night.

a reply to: Bluntone22
I don't believe it has... at least not in those relationships where there is actually a worthwhile relationship. you know, the only kind of relationships that should actually have sex as an integral part of them. the simple fact is that there is probably just as many abortions performed because the father wanted it so than there is because it was the wish of the mother with many of them having the two in perfect agreement about it.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979
there are female abortionists....

still searching for some understanding here....
just what is on your mind???

Well starting a family is on my mind but currently I am unsure if it will ever be a success so I might as well at this point choose not to have children because it would be like child abuse. Unless I can explain everything to them and still make them believe in what is good.

a reply to: Bluntone22

I'm talking about autonomy and reproductive rights. As long as lawmakers, 99.9% white males, continue to chip away at a woman's autonomy and reproductive rights to make her choices about her own body, life and future, then no, we don't have it!

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

Your body is your responsibility so take it.

Equality and responsibility are 2 different things. Equality is the right to autonomously make decisions without first obtaining permission from someone supposedly more understanding of equality than the other.

Let's see....counting on my fingers how many children I personally know never see their "responsible" fathers, not enough fingers. Now how many children do I know that never see their mothers, 2. The responsible one is the one there.

But, no worries. You'll get that alone time. While the rest of the world are having children, the US is barely replacing the dying. This is not a family friendly nation since family farms as main occupation died.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979


I'm beginning to wonder if you are a lil hung over from last night.

Yes well true but that is all I get; during the week work all day long and night and then it's weekend and I can have alcohol and really think about what's important. Though my only addiction is nicotine, for old times sakes.

a reply to: dawnstar


I have always had the philosophy of, "you play, you pay"
And I agree, most couples will talk things out and agree.

Unfortunately I think there are a bunch of people sexing up what are basicly strangers.
Moral decay of society and whatnot.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Bluntone22

I'm talking about autonomy and reproductive rights. As long as lawmakers, 99.9% white males, continue to chip away at a woman's autonomy and reproductive rights to make her choices about her own body, life and future, then no, we don't have it!

It's not 99.9% white males because there are also black males that are lawmakers so it can't be more like 80% and I don't know much about it. Even black women are lawmakers, or can be, it's all possible so why hasn't it happened. Heck, there's a black guy in the White House. I am wondering now if there are black psychiatrists, because they also play a large part in this so I'll get back to you on that after I've done some more research.

And it's true there's not much of an option besides society, but then women should be aware they can protest or go on a strike and not participate.

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979



I don't see any women or people of color signing this piece of legislature, a law that requires forced vaginal ultrasound probes before a woman can obtain an abortion. That costly and medically unnecessary procedure is in place, supposedly, to ensure women understand, by seeing the ultrasound picture, what it is they're aborting.

a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

I have three adult sons, and would love to have some grandchildren, but the one thing I taught my kids was to avoid having kids till they were economically able to support them and were relatively sure that they wanted to spend the rest of their lives with the women who they would be creating them with.
I don't believe I will ever see grandchildren in my future!!

but, still don't see where all this involves women's equality or their responsibility...
my kids will probably never have kids because the business sector has shirked their responsibility towards their workers. their bosses will expect them to be on call 24/7, be willing to drive to nearby cities to other branches of the business to fill in when someone calls in sick, and yet, for some reason, I find myself having to help them pay for whatever work needs to be done on their car so they can get to work while they talk to me about just living in that car because they can't afford their rent. my kids are adults, and yet, I still feel responsible for helping them out, even though I go without to do it...
so don't gripe about women not being responsible enough for you... or wanting to be considered equals in society, family, and the workplace.. there's a danged good chance that sooner or later they will have to be holding their own and raising their families themselves!

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

I don't see any women or people of color signing this piece of legislature, a law that requires forced vaginal ultrasound probes before a woman can obtain an abortion. That costly and medically unnecessary procedure is in place, supposedly, to ensure women understand, by seeing the ultrasound picture, what it is they're aborting.

True, but you have to accept the fact it was all founded by males. The guys build the ships to get the women on the other side, the guys invented the pens, writing, everything you see in that picture is invented by guys.

Now that is not fair ofcourse because if women would found a society now, that is a country from scratch out in some wilderness, well that would take a lot of time for them to reach that same level. So a picture of women like those guys signing a document in that way is possible, but it will take a long time. I'm sure though there are guys who would give up some claimed land so a woman could get it. And I'm also sure there are enough women to do so who have what it takes, like money, information, everything.

However one note women have to do it themselves completely, they can't copy just even one thing from a guy. Meaning if they want to build a house of wood they need to invent an axe first or some way to bring down the tree without the help of some guys invention they remember. If they want to live in a cave that's fine too but they have to figure it all out by themselves. It's still possible, but it's really not that easy.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: johnnyjoe1979

I don't see any women or people of color signing this piece of legislature, a law that requires forced vaginal ultrasound probes before a woman can obtain an abortion. That costly and medically unnecessary procedure is in place, supposedly, to ensure women understand, by seeing the ultrasound picture, what it is they're aborting.

Most importantly it's the guys that do the actual abortion or approve of it in some way, so the responsibility is theirs. Which isn't like blaming, it's about who made the call and why. If they are good they'll explain when asked but if they were evil, well we wouldn't be typing this conversation. Really it is a whole system of masters and lesser masters, the more important the question and the more people will hear it, the more response you will get. And all guys have to obey the system, but the tricky part is it's a bunch of systems. Just like all ideas people are using in the US is really from Europe and then we could take a longer trail down history what was before Europe. Like before the different countries, before there were people, it can all be traced back.

a reply to: windword

and... of course, none of these men considered the risks that are posed by these vaginal ultrasound probes..

haicontroversies.blogspot.com...

healthcare.utah.edu...