GOP will kill Obamacare … AND THEN FUND IT

How in any sense, healthcare a for profit business? I understand people need to make a living, but stockholders, this is nothing but greed by the healthcare and big pharma industries.

a reply to: KawRider9

(facepalm)

1. In one of my earlier posts, I explained that Obamacare was modeled after Romneycare instead of the single payer, Medicare-for-All, or public options that the left wing wanted.

2. "Romneycare" is the nickname for the healthcare reforms made in Massachusetts under then-Governor Mitt Romney.

3. Romneycare had nothing to do with former Governor Mitt Romney's 2012 Presidential campaign, as it was a state-level series of reforms that were implemented a full 2 years before then-Senator Barack Obama was elected President.

4. You came out of nowhere claiming that Romneycare was rejected. This is simply wrong since it was actually implemented into law in 2006.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

How does Islam respond to healthcare, I am asking from ignorance. How could anyone see healthcare as a for profit industry, that is an honest to god question, why would you wish to make money off of someone else's suffering?

Socialized medicine isn't all that great either... At least not how canada does it. I don't have to pay out of pocket for a doctor, but it's practically so useless I never see one anyways. Other than the yearly checkup. Call for an regular appointment, first opening is at least a week away, by then whatever that is wrong will have probably worked itself out. Specialists wait list are stupid long. Mom waited 4 years to see a stomach specialist, they botched removing her appendix and had to remove a bunch of it, been understandably having issues ever since that. Still got to pay out of pocket for dental, prescriptions, and mental health stuff.

Back in NY there was no waiting for anything, but you better have a house to sell to pay for it.... I was gone before obamacare came, at least I missed that.

The problem with the costs of our healthcare in America are almost all periphery...

I will admit to not reading the whole thread so I'm sure some of these have been mentioned:

-Cost of education and licensing to become a healthcare professional (Not really terrible until MD+)
-Costs of insuring doctors and hospitals against malpractice/other litigation
-Costs of medical equipment and the prohibitive policies/special business licensing enforced which prevents competitive manufacturing. This one may be a little bit of a stretch as stated. It's probably more like crony contracts and such that get bloated when a big health company is furnishing and supplying a new facility.
-The costs of billing/coding and haggling with insurance companies. The sheer volume of manpower alone associated with deciding who gets paid what is a substantial line item. Add to this the fact that in this latter stage of the insurance game in our country many of our hospital bills start out looking like subsidy bloated cash grabs, and by the time the haggling is resolved much of the hospitals asking price has been reduced to 30% of the sticker price... Though not everything is contested.
-Huge entitlement contracts which have traditionally offered the most favorable insurance prices and policies have become expensive promises with costs passed down to individual policies. Big government and union employee insurance policies end up being quite reasonable deals. So good in fact I confidently assume that insurance companies couldn't operate with these policies alone... Especially as these good deals, and the people who are lucky enough to get them, are aging. I dont think these legacy prices and contracts would hold up in the broader market...
-Illegal immigrants are of course a drain on the system if they are accountable to nobody and aren't invested in the many facets of our society. The extent of this impact is debatable since some of the factors are so nebulous and the numbers unknown...

These are just a few of the things which, ultimately, should have nothing to do with the price of health care.
Without going into detail how it could be done, or any of the arguments against; I feel like our health care should be handled the same way other professional industries are dealt with.
I'd like to say, 'I wish I could pay my doctor the same way I pay my electrician, plumber, or mechanic." But the fact is, all of those industries are crippled by practically the same exact issues. Prohibitive licensing requirements, insurance meddling, code enforcement, etc.etc...


Can we please get some ACTUAL fair market capitalism up in here please?

a reply to: BubbaJoe

There's no single answer for that. Muslims are humans, just like Hindus, Christians, Buddhists, atheists, etc. In other words, there are greedy Muslims as well as charitable ones. And even though on numerous occasions the Qur'an commands us to give to the poor and to perform charity, most Muslims pick and choose what they follow (just like every other religion). So in theory we should be about the preservation of life, which would include healthcare for all.

However, many modern governments and political movements are more concerned with killing and sabotaging the lives of their rivals than with helping each other. And unfortunately, this includes Muslim countries & communities. For example, it's probably safe to assume that Saudi Arabia doesn't care about healthcare in Yemen (who they're fighting a war against) or the healthcare in Iran (who they pretty much consider an existential threat), even though both of those countries are also Muslim majority. And many of the Oromo Muslims in Ethiopia (who are a step or 2 away from an outright revolution there) might not care too much for the healthcare of the demographics that support the current Ethiopian government. The same probably goes for Palestinian Muslims and Israel right now.

Personally, I think that high quality healthcare should be available to all people globally. I even go so far as to think that every new medical advancement should become immediately available to all of humankind, since the quest to save lives shouldn't be limited to national borders or ethnic groups. Unfortunately, that kind of policy would go against many modern patent laws & technology transfer agreements.

Hope that helps.

a reply to: Indigo5

No offense but did you miss the part where he said he got a bill? Did you read his post?

a reply to: Christosterone

May I make a request? Read his post. That first letter in the word Hurt is an H and is the first letter of the word Hurt.

Please allow people to use the emergency room for what it is, a place to go when you get hurt and are in need of emergency medical care.

Thanks in advance,
The person who actually read his post.

originally posted by: Indigo5

How again is the GOP going to replace Obamacare, but keep everything they say they want to keep?

Obamacare is the crazyiest solution to the medical insurance problem that any country so far has come up with.

It's tries to be a compromise between capitalism and socialism.

It's not Obama's fault.

It was the best plan the Republicans would let him get through the house and senate, that provided care to those in need.

There is no other country in the world, that has a plan like this one, where the individual is forced to buy medical insurance from private issuers.

That can never work.

There are only two ways to go:

1) Let everybody decide whether they need insurance or not, and buy what they can afford, without government involvement.

2) Let everybody pay the premiums to the government, and let the government negotiate the "group insurance" for all the people from the insurance companies, without the individual getting involved in the process.

Those two methods work without problems.

Trying to create a model in-between these two things, just makes an unworkable mess.

The individual doesn't have the negotiating power to get the best premiums, so if he has to find an insurer, he must have the option not to buy any insurance at all. That's his only "leverage" against being ripped off by the insurance industry.

The government has the most power in negotiating deals, and can arrange the lowest premiums for the people.

Besides, the government can always fund the insurance itself, and cut out all the marketing fees, brokerage commissions, and profit markup the insurance co.s add on to the core premium that effectively doubles the premiums that the individual pays.

We don't only pay premiums for our insurance, we pay marketing fees, we pay broker commissions, and agency fees, we pay share holders dividends, we pay for the profit and growth financial numbers that the CEO's of all these companies need to show on the books that they are making money, so theose CEO's can get the big fat "bonus"s at the end of the year too.

Once you've decided that everybody is entitled to have medical insurance coverage, the only sensible solution is to hand over all responsibility to the government.

The individual cannot do better than the government, if you take away his option to "decline all insurance".

a reply to: AMPTAH

Just to clarify something: Democrats had large majorities in both the House and Senate when the ACA/Obamacare was being negotiated. So the Democratic Party could've passed anything at that point including universal healthcare, single payer healthcare, Medicare-For-All, a public option added to the ACA, etc. That's one reason progressives were/are so pissed that none of those things were included.

In fact, not a single Republican in either chamber of Congress voted for the ACA/Obamacare. Here are the stats on who voted for and against it in the House of Representatives (HERE) and in the Senate (HERE).

The Democratic Party didn't pass something that was more progressive because many Democratic members of Congress were allies of the healthcare industry, pharmaceutical industry, insurance companies, etc. Some of the Democrats in the House even voted against the ACA/Obamacare (particularly many conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats), with it only passing 219 to 212 in the House.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Wait, the best plan the republicans let him get through??? What kind of revisionist history are you spouting?? ACA was passed during a fully democratically controlled government. The republicans had zero chance of controlling ANYTHING! In fact, not one republican voted for the ACA that went through. You can absolutely thank Obama and his democratic house and senate for this debacle.