Two Percent GDP Growth, WTF???

originally posted by: Diisenchanted
a reply to: dfnj2015

Even 8% growth wont help when you have a president that spends 106% of gpd.

In the eight years of Obama we haven't experienced more than 3% growth.

Something needs to drastically change.

it'll be rosy again, by borrowing trillions and cutting billions in taxes....then when the bills comes due, blame it on the democrats, and cut the crap out of those pesky programs that help the poor and middle class....isn't life going to be wonderful?

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
I've been saying this for almost the entire time that i've been here, going on a year. The economy is straight up doodoo! the longest period of time without finishing the year over 3% GDP EVER in the history of the USA...11 years and counting.The second longest? 4...the first 4 years of the Great Depression. He will be the ONLY president to never hit the 3% growth rate...EVER. Only Herbert Hoover, Teddy Roosevelt, and Andrew Johnson will rank lower than him. Since the US dept. of labor began keeping records in 1941 Obama ranks 11th out of 13 presidents in job growth rate. He has been an economic failure.

I hate black people as much as you but I don't think Obama is responsible for our economic failure. When Obama was sworn in as president in January of 2009 the economy was losing 800,000 jobs per month the entire year of 2016. If the economy wasn't losing so many jobs the black guy would never have become president in the first place. The fact that the percentage of people actually employed is slightly up is a good sign. At least Obama did not do something that would cause losing 800,000 jobs per month.

We need some way of sparking demand in this country so people's wages go up. Until then, the economy is going nowhere.

a reply to: DAVID64

You can thank Obama and the Progressives for the geriatric growth. While the Democrats/Liberals will tell you we're doing great, the numbers speak for themselves.

Oh BS. Anyone with half a brain knows our current situation is the direct result of having the same two parties in charge for the last 150 years and they failed at their jobs. So it's just plain ignorance to blame just one person or party.

I think Trump said he plans to have 4% growth while he's in office? At least that's what I've heard. Even if he can pull that off, it doesn't mean anything for us.

When you look at GDP growth it's not a real measure of the wealth of the middle class. A lot of that growth is concentrated in the upper class. Corporations, businesses, billionaires. We need wealth specifically for the middle class to increase at a higher rate.

IMO we should also stop inflating our currency. Our wages don't increase at the same rate as inflation. Inflation means they can pay us less without changing the dollar amount in our paychecks. My dad has told me stories about how he was able to pay a quarter for a burger, fries, and a drink at a restaurant near his school and get a nickel back in change. People really were more affluent back then - because our currency was worth something.

What is a quarter worth now? I have to put freaking 16 of them into a washing machine at the laundomat. 16. Our quarters are worth what pennies used to be.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Not generating sustained growth is one thing, but NO president has managed a period of economic malaise such as Obama has. For 230 years and 43 presidents we didn't record such numbers.

I have in fact posted this link before, but it appears to be needed again...
www.realclearmarkets.com...

a reply to: Arizonaguy

Even worse, and this should be the defining issue of the 2016 elections, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is now forecasting that America will never see 3.0% economic growth again. This should be drawing howls of protest, at least from Republicans, but there has been little reaction thus far.

This sounds like an issue that is beyond Obama's fault. Though the article agrees with my hypothesis that we are sitting on the precipice of a new recession. Heck that article is saying we are already in one. All the way back in February.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Oh gosh, here we go. The race card. Nice. Please explain how FDR inherited a much worse situation than Obama did but was able to at least eke out a 3.0% GDP growth rate after 4 years?

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: dfnj2015
That said theres millions of posts and threads on this site calling for blood and lynchings yet Im fairly certain this is the first time Ive ever seen anyone ask TPTB for anything semi nicely.
Ill be keeping a close eye on this thread just in case this new approach does work, good luck

It's not really "please sir may I have some more" type thinking. It's more like intellectual curiosity as to why keeping growth so low is so important from economic perspective. Just the hint at the possibility the economy have inflation people start calling for rate increases. I'm just trying to understand the motivations behind raising interest rates.

But in terms of please sir may I have some more, TPTB should not be an anchor or prevent the American worker making the median wage from "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". The shadow government needs a spanking. I would like to see President Trump get the Treasury department to put some interest free legal tender into the economy so we can see some real GDP growth for change There's just not enough money floating around in the economy to grease this pig.

TPTB would not be TPTB if they did not have the power to make everyone miserable.

Raising interest rates creates stability. It needs to be done. When you raise interest rates, it becomes harder to get loans, so less bad loans go out. Interest rates get raised in savings too, so anybody who has money in holding stands to profit from it as well. When interest rates are low, you create artificial circulation, people spending other peoples money, and they end up trying to purchase things they can't afford and then they default.

Low interest rates lead to poverty and default. High interest rates lead to success and profit.

It's really simple. Interest rates have been low for almost 20 years now, and our prior economic situation was lavish, and our post economic situation is anguish. It's really the simplest cause->effect there is.

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
I have in fact posted this link before, but it appears to be needed again...
www.realclearmarkets.com...

Correlation does not prove causation. What did Obama do or not do that you think directly affected the economy?

Take healthcare premiums for example. Healthcare premiums have been rising on average 20% per year since 1995. This means every 5 years the premium doubles in price. Before and after the ACA was passed rates continue to rise 20% per year.

You could argue Obama has been great for the economy by allowing fracking to continue. I think you just want to blame Obama for something. It's not like this economy was losing 800,000 jobs per month like when Bush left.

Partisan bickering is so boring and predictable. Who cares who fault it is. More importantly, will Congress do anything to fix it? I say no. There are laws that enslave men and there are laws that set them free. The only ones we get are anti-labor. There really are very few laws passed by Congress that actually help worker's wages.

originally posted by: buster2010
a reply to: DAVID64

You can thank Obama and the Progressives for the geriatric growth. While the Democrats/Liberals will tell you we're doing great, the numbers speak for themselves.

Oh BS. Anyone with half a brain knows our current situation is the direct result of having the same two parties in charge for the last 150 years and they failed at their jobs. So it's just plain ignorance to blame just one person or party.

Part of this has to do with the drastic opposite approaches both parties have. You can definitely say that the constant switching hurts more than anything. The real issue is, how could they both be so divided, how hard can it be to distill down what works and what doesn't and consolidate the parties?

There is no interest in that, just more circus.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
I have in fact posted this link before, but it appears to be needed again...
www.realclearmarkets.com...

Correlation does not prove causation. What did Obama do or not do that you think directly affected the economy?

Take healthcare premiums for example. Healthcare premiums have been rising on average 20% per year since 1995. This means every 5 years the premium doubles in price. Before and after the ACA was passed rates continue to rise 20% per year.

You could argue Obama has been great for the economy by allowing fracking to continue. I think you just want to blame Obama for something. It's not like this economy was losing 800,000 jobs per month like when Bush left.

Partisan bickering is so boring and predictable. Who cares who fault it is. More importantly, will Congress do anything to fix it? I say no. There are laws that enslave men and there are laws that set them free. The only ones we get are anti-labor. There really are very few laws passed by Congress that actually help worker's wages.

You need to brush up on your numbers. The "Unemployment rate" is actually the highest it's ever been in the history of all time, they just stopped counting unemployed people who are no longer receiving unemployment benefits. So if you can't find a job, and your benefits expire, they remove you from the "work force" and subsequently do not count you in the unemployment metric anymore. It's manipulating data, it's not accurate. The real unemployment rate is up over 20%. So somewhere near ONE FOURTH of the country's work force cannot be employed right now. Out of that 25%, about only 5% is actually recorded in the unemployment metric.

Fracking is god awful -- not only that, but getting rid of it wouldn't have even put a dent in employment numbers.

You cannot argue Obama has been great for the economy, since the economy has only gotten worse since he's there. The metrics, GDP/Unemployment/National Debt... it's all worse, and every year he's been in, they've continued to get worse.

You can't even play devil's advocate on this, it's just fact.

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: dfnj2015
That said theres millions of posts and threads on this site calling for blood and lynchings yet Im fairly certain this is the first time Ive ever seen anyone ask TPTB for anything semi nicely.
Ill be keeping a close eye on this thread just in case this new approach does work, good luck

It's not really "please sir may I have some more" type thinking. It's more like intellectual curiosity as to why keeping growth so low is so important from economic perspective. Just the hint at the possibility the economy have inflation people start calling for rate increases. I'm just trying to understand the motivations behind raising interest rates.

But in terms of please sir may I have some more, TPTB should not be an anchor or prevent the American worker making the median wage from "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". The shadow government needs a spanking. I would like to see President Trump get the Treasury department to put some interest free legal tender into the economy so we can see some real GDP growth for change There's just not enough money floating around in the economy to grease this pig.

TPTB would not be TPTB if they did not have the power to make everyone miserable.

Raising interest rates creates stability. It needs to be done. When you raise interest rates, it becomes harder to get loans, so less bad loans go out. Interest rates get raised in savings too, so anybody who has money in holding stands to profit from it as well. When interest rates are low, you create artificial circulation, people spending other peoples money, and they end up trying to purchase things they can't afford and then they default.

Low interest rates lead to poverty and default. High interest rates lead to success and profit.

It's really simple. Interest rates have been low for almost 20 years now, and our prior economic situation was lavish, and our post economic situation is anguish. It's really the simplest cause->effect there is.

If interest rates rise too quickly many home owners will see a huge drop in the value of their house. This will also cause lots of problems. But I agree with you raising interest rates so a CD returns something close to inflation is a good thing.

However, still think the biggest problem our country faces is the cost of living keeps rising combined with no wage growth. Healthcare is out of control. And wealth inequality in this country continues to peak at all time highs. You can't have a good economy unless you have millions of customers with lots of cash in their pockets. It costs $32 to feed a family of four at Wendy's and that's cheap quality fast food! Pizza in my town went from $8 for a large plain to $14 for a large plain since 2008. My salary hasn't gone up 57% in that time.

Marx always said laissez faire capitalism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government not less. See you in the breadlines comrades!

originally posted by: SRPrime
You need to brush up on your numbers. The "Unemployment rate" is actually the highest it's ever been in the history of all time, they just stopped counting unemployed people who are no longer receiving unemployment benefits.

This is a stone faced lie (not to mention stupidly hyperbolic, history of all time? lol!). Even U6 isn't at a record high anymore.

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
I have in fact posted this link before, but it appears to be needed again...
www.realclearmarkets.com...

Correlation does not prove causation. What did Obama do or not do that you think directly affected the economy?

Take healthcare premiums for example. Healthcare premiums have been rising on average 20% per year since 1995. This means every 5 years the premium doubles in price. Before and after the ACA was passed rates continue to rise 20% per year.

You could argue Obama has been great for the economy by allowing fracking to continue. I think you just want to blame Obama for something. It's not like this economy was losing 800,000 jobs per month like when Bush left.

Partisan bickering is so boring and predictable. Who cares who fault it is. More importantly, will Congress do anything to fix it? I say no. There are laws that enslave men and there are laws that set them free. The only ones we get are anti-labor. There really are very few laws passed by Congress that actually help worker's wages.

You need to brush up on your numbers. The "Unemployment rate" is actually the highest it's ever been in the history of all time, they just stopped counting unemployed people who are no longer receiving unemployment benefits. So if you can't find a job, and your benefits expire, they remove you from the "work force" and subsequently do not count you in the unemployment metric anymore. It's manipulating data, it's not accurate. The real unemployment rate is up over 20%. So somewhere near ONE FOURTH of the country's work force cannot be employed right now. Out of that 25%, about only 5% is actually recorded in the unemployment metric.

Fracking is god awful -- not only that, but getting rid of it wouldn't have even put a dent in employment numbers.

You cannot argue Obama has been great for the economy, since the economy has only gotten worse since he's there. The metrics, GDP/Unemployment/National Debt... it's all worse, and every year he's been in, they've continued to get worse.

You can't even play devil's advocate on this, it's just fact.

Here's what I was basing my comments on:

data.bls.gov...

If you trust the Bureau of Labor Statistics then it looks like the percentage of people in the population working has been rising.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: dfnj2015
That said theres millions of posts and threads on this site calling for blood and lynchings yet Im fairly certain this is the first time Ive ever seen anyone ask TPTB for anything semi nicely.
Ill be keeping a close eye on this thread just in case this new approach does work, good luck

It's not really "please sir may I have some more" type thinking. It's more like intellectual curiosity as to why keeping growth so low is so important from economic perspective. Just the hint at the possibility the economy have inflation people start calling for rate increases. I'm just trying to understand the motivations behind raising interest rates.

But in terms of please sir may I have some more, TPTB should not be an anchor or prevent the American worker making the median wage from "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". The shadow government needs a spanking. I would like to see President Trump get the Treasury department to put some interest free legal tender into the economy so we can see some real GDP growth for change There's just not enough money floating around in the economy to grease this pig.

TPTB would not be TPTB if they did not have the power to make everyone miserable.

Raising interest rates creates stability. It needs to be done. When you raise interest rates, it becomes harder to get loans, so less bad loans go out. Interest rates get raised in savings too, so anybody who has money in holding stands to profit from it as well. When interest rates are low, you create artificial circulation, people spending other peoples money, and they end up trying to purchase things they can't afford and then they default.

Low interest rates lead to poverty and default. High interest rates lead to success and profit.

It's really simple. Interest rates have been low for almost 20 years now, and our prior economic situation was lavish, and our post economic situation is anguish. It's really the simplest cause->effect there is.

If interest rates rise too quickly many home owners will see a huge drop in the value of their house. This will also cause lots of problems. But I agree with you raising interest rates so a CD returns something close to inflation is a good thing.

However, still think the biggest problem our country faces is the cost of living keeps rising combined with no wage growth. Healthcare is out of control. And wealth inequality in this country continues to peak at all time highs. You can't have a good economy unless you have millions of customers with lots of cash in their pockets. It costs $32 to feed a family of four at Wendy's and that's cheap quality fast food! Pizza in my town went from $8 for a large plain to $14 for a large plain since 2008. My salary hasn't gone up 57% in that time.

Marx always said laissez faire capitalism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government not less. See you in the breadlines comrades!

True but not true. While their house might lose monetary value, that's because the dollar becomes stronger. Ideally, we want the value to be low, because that means the dollar is strong. I.E. A movie used to cost 25 cents, and a nickel on army bases. Now they cost 13-23$. If the movie was back to 25 cents because the dollar got stronger, that wouldn't actually be devaluing it, it would actually make it worth the same. Inflation/Deflation. Inflation happens when your economy is down and you bandaid it by printing more money and inserting more into circulation, deflation happens when your economy is booming, the dollar increases in worth, so the purchasing power of it does too, requiring you to have less in circulation. Economy booms when interest rates are high, so the property values decrease, because each dollar is worth more.

a reply to: jimmyx

Another delusional leftist what part of 20 trillion in debt don't you understand.

10 trillion of that is on Obama!

As soon as Trump does some thing like that then maybe I'll buy in to your bull-crap. For now stop trying to sell it.

This is a stone faced lie (not to mention stupidly hyperbolic, history of all time? lol!). Even U6 isn't at a record high anymore.

It is not a lie. You spend too much time listening to the fake news spewed by the MSM.

originally posted by: Diisenchanted
a reply to: jimmyx

Another delusional leftist what part of 20 trillion in debt don't you understand.

10 trillion of that is on Obama!

As soon as Trump does some thing like that then maybe I'll buy in to your bull-crap. For now stop trying to sell it.

Just wait until he gets around to building that wall. *ahem* Excuse me. Fence now.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: SRPrime
You need to brush up on your numbers. The "Unemployment rate" is actually the highest it's ever been in the history of all time, they just stopped counting unemployed people who are no longer receiving unemployment benefits.

This is a stone faced lie (not to mention stupidly hyperbolic, history of all time? lol!). Even U6 isn't at a record high anymore.

Facts that disagree with his partisan ideology are ignored. Opinions that do agree are considered to be facts.

Everything in politics is an opinion. Opinions cannot be false, true, or a lie. Unless you are a Republican. If you are a Republican the all your opinions are facts. And the word opinion, has no meaning for Republicans.

originally posted by: Diisenchanted
a reply to: jimmyx

Another delusional leftist what part of 20 trillion in debt don't you understand.

10 trillion of that is on Obama!

As soon as Trump does some thing like that then maybe I'll buy in to your bull-crap. For now stop trying to sell it.

The debt is irrelevant unless you are the one holding the notes. I tell you right now, too bad for the bloke who owns those bonds because they are never getting their money back!

All that matters is the purchasing power of the median worker's take home pay. Everything else is meaningless noise.