It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Help ATS via PayPal:
learn more

Two Percent GDP Growth, WTF???

page: 1
9
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:09 AM
link   
I don't understand the shadow government's obsession with raising interest rates to make sure we don't have sustained GDP growth. The GDP hovering around 2% is pure misery. Two percent growth barely covers the population growth and worn out replacement purchases. If we ever get growth around 5% to 8 % I would like to see it stay there for while so people can actually pursue happiness for a change.

Two percent growth is pure misery. Why do the powers that be want to keep us in misery?

What difference does it make to them anyway. If we have 5% growth all the money just comes back to the oligarchs. It's very frustrating year after year with no end in sight. The shadow government is a bunch of God damn effers! I hate em.
edit on 29-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: typos




posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:23 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

Well, when our money supply is controlled by a private entity, you get what you get.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:26 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

You have an interesting and unique approach to this problem but you sound kinda like this



when really you should sound like this



That said theres millions of posts and threads on this site calling for blood and lynchings yet Im fairly certain this is the first time Ive ever seen anyone ask TPTB for anything semi nicely.
Ill be keeping a close eye on this thread just in case this new approach does work, good luck



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:27 AM
link   
You can thank Obama and the Progressives for the geriatric growth. While the Democrats/Liberals will tell you we're doing great, the numbers speak for themselves.

freebeacon.com...


The Obama Economy: Slowest Recovery Since 1949



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:36 AM
link   
Nothing really god fixed since 2008. People know that, half the people aren't blind. That is why Trump won this election, he is going to try to fix it. I feel it may be too late, they should have fixed our economy seven years ago instead of throwing money at it like adding another patch a tire that was full of patches and had no thread left.

Bush and Clinton era policy created the mess, but Obama did not fix it he just added fuel to the fire.

Whether Trump can fix it anymore I am not sure, but at least he is going to try. Hillary was not going to even try, she would have been a continuance of Obama's administration throwing a blanket over it so we couldn't see it. It is not all his fault, the Republicans did block a lot of what he tried and when he did get something started it just flopped anyway. Stimulating the economy by forcing too much fossil fuel reduction to stimulate production of solar and wind only works if we can produce the equipment ourselves, not import anything. He lent money to a solar company in California in a really expensive place where wages were higher than in other parts of the country. Now a solar factory in a different location would be more competitive against the Chinese panels. The cost of Living and wages in California is way higher than other states, there are communities who would welcome jobs paying three quarters of what they pay there. Work for their residents in a place with a lower cost of living doesn't need super high wages, a living wage will be fine in that area.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 08:58 AM
link   

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: dfnj2015
That said theres millions of posts and threads on this site calling for blood and lynchings yet Im fairly certain this is the first time Ive ever seen anyone ask TPTB for anything semi nicely.
Ill be keeping a close eye on this thread just in case this new approach does work, good luck


It's not really "please sir may I have some more" type thinking. It's more like intellectual curiosity as to why keeping growth so low is so important from economic perspective. Just the hint at the possibility the economy have inflation people start calling for rate increases. I'm just trying to understand the motivations behind raising interest rates.

But in terms of please sir may I have some more, TPTB should not be an anchor or prevent the American worker making the median wage from "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". The shadow government needs a spanking. I would like to see President Trump get the Treasury department to put some interest free legal tender into the economy so we can see some real GDP growth for change There's just not enough money floating around in the economy to grease this pig.

TPTB would not be TPTB if they did not have the power to make everyone miserable.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:54 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

This is because this is not a true 2% growth. It's only true growth when the growth occurs when FED discount rates and federal funds rate at or near the real market value.
Keeping rates at this point allows cheap loans for investment and channels money all out of normal bank instruments because the yields are so small into the stock market. Everyone is chasing the yields, everyone is trying to at least get their money to keep up with the rate of inflation. This is supposed to happen in savings accounts, this is a perversion of how the market works.
On the flip side it also causes higher consumption than it should because money in the bank does not increase for the person. at .5% growth in savings one's money is probably safer at home in a safe, because when it all comes down that money will be gone.
When the discount rate is this low another effect happens, malinvestment. These are investments extremely prone to twitches in the economy; adjustable rates, low rate of return investments, investment in highly volatile and elastic goods.

low/zero interest rates=more consumption, money fleeing to stocks, malinvestment, less savings,
low/zero interest rate imply that the economy can NOT make it on its own, this means the economy is weak.

If we look at true employment by factoring in Labor participation rate, if we factor in true inflation, not simply cpi, if we factor in median wage growth, if we factor in these things we can get a real picture, and that picture is that we never left the recession.
IF we look at what age groups picked up jobs and native born vs foreign born jobs added the data gets even worse.
This whole situation is a zombie economy

This zero percent interest rate is there because it is teetering on top of a mountain. No matter what happens in the future the markets will fall and the derivatives will come crashing down destroying the world.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:00 AM
link   
a reply to: jellyrev

How can the economy recover when skilled jobs are fewer and farther between.

How can the economy recover when skilled jobs are paying less than they did 10 years ago.

How can the economy recover when that same amount of money has less purchasing power.

Whatever.

Long gold.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 10:50 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

Even 8% growth wont help when you have a president that spends 106% of gpd.

In the eight years of Obama we haven't experienced more than 3% growth.

Something needs to drastically change.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 11:32 AM
link   

originally posted by: rickymouse
I feel it may be too late,


You're right about that!



they should have fixed our economy seven years ago instead of throwing money at it like adding another patch a tire that was full of patches and had no thread left.


but they needed to go way further back than seven years ago to fix the economy.



Bush and Clinton era policy created the mess, but Obama did not fix it he just added fuel to the fire.

Nah, not even close. You need to still go back further than that, think somewhere around the turn of the century, maybe ohhh 1913 or so.



Whether Trump can fix it anymore I am not sure, but at least he is going to try.


I think the jury is still out on that one, whether or not he is going to try. Personally I'm hopeful, but I'm far more guarded against him doing absolutely nothing than in his actually doing something.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 12:57 PM
link   

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: dfnj2015

This is because this is not a true 2% growth. It's only true growth when the growth occurs when FED discount rates and federal funds rate at or near the real market value.
Keeping rates at this point allows cheap loans for investment and channels money all out of normal bank instruments because the yields are so small into the stock market. Everyone is chasing the yields, everyone is trying to at least get their money to keep up with the rate of inflation. This is supposed to happen in savings accounts, this is a perversion of how the market works.
On the flip side it also causes higher consumption than it should because money in the bank does not increase for the person. at .5% growth in savings one's money is probably safer at home in a safe, because when it all comes down that money will be gone.
When the discount rate is this low another effect happens, malinvestment. These are investments extremely prone to twitches in the economy; adjustable rates, low rate of return investments, investment in highly volatile and elastic goods.

low/zero interest rates=more consumption, money fleeing to stocks, malinvestment, less savings,
low/zero interest rate imply that the economy can NOT make it on its own, this means the economy is weak.

If we look at true employment by factoring in Labor participation rate, if we factor in true inflation, not simply cpi, if we factor in median wage growth, if we factor in these things we can get a real picture, and that picture is that we never left the recession.
IF we look at what age groups picked up jobs and native born vs foreign born jobs added the data gets even worse.
This whole situation is a zombie economy

This zero percent interest rate is there because it is teetering on top of a mountain. No matter what happens in the future the markets will fall and the derivatives will come crashing down destroying the world.


I really do not understand anything you are saying. I get that the 2% growth is somehow meaningless. It has felt like misery and deflation to me since 2008. I am just hoping people's take home pay get's a boost in purchasing power. I just want to see some real growth before I die. The idea that the people in this country are not capable of producing enough well to make everyone happy is just insanity. We should be able to replace a large percentage of the kitchens and bathrooms in every detached house in this country every year. Instead, all our money is going to buy gas and groceries. I'm just sick of not having enough money to fix my house and take a vacation.

I do have a comment on this statement, "median wage growth". Talking about wage growth without talking about the purchasing power of the median workers take home pay after taxes is meaningless. We need more than just wage growth. We need wage growth that will spark the economy into real expansion. It's been forever since we've had real growth in this country.

What I think is very interesting is every time there are riots we see stories about wages rising.
edit on 29-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 01:06 PM
link   

originally posted by: Darkmadness
a reply to: jellyrev

How can the economy recover when skilled jobs are fewer and farther between.

How can the economy recover when skilled jobs are paying less than they did 10 years ago.

How can the economy recover when that same amount of money has less purchasing power.

Whatever.

Long gold.


The purchasing power of wages is more important than skilled jobs paying those wages. People working at fast food restaurants are good enough if the wages were good enough. Having skilled jobs is more about the quality of life we have. If TPTB want to have more interesting culture and more fun things to do then we need an economy where people have better wages. The quality of our culture and the number of fun things to do is destroyed by having the middle class being driven deeper and deeper into poverty wages every year. If only we can educate TPTB to see paying workers as being important to their englightened self-interests. They get all the money back anyway which is why this is so painful.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 01:15 PM
link   

originally posted by: DAVID64
You can thank Obama and the Progressives for the geriatric growth. While the Democrats/Liberals will tell you we're doing great, the numbers speak for themselves.

freebeacon.com...


The Obama Economy: Slowest Recovery Since 1949


Well, all the Democrat/Liberal progressives have been vanquished from government. The Republicans are now responsible for everything. Good luck to them! I hope they achieve MAGA whatever that means. Maybe just not having a black guy on TV as president is MAGA. I never really understood what MAGA really meant. However, I do wish President Trump all the success in the world as long as it doesn't involve genocide of gays, black people, and Mexican immigrants.


edit on 29-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 01:17 PM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

But they are sycophants interested in more than just fun.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 01:48 PM
link   
The thing is, no president can force people to crack open their wallet and spend to up that GDP. They can't force people to buy more services or products, they can't force companies to purchase more raw material to make and hopefully sell more product if no one's really willing to buy anything in the first place.

The death knell for a capitalist consumerist society is when the consumers realize they don't need to have everything being churned out to be happy. We've about hit that point, millions of Americans have realized they need to learn to live within their means, and save their surplus money instead of spending it. As far as learning to save goes, better late than never.
That means less frivolous goods & services being bought, and less money companies are making. Which obviously leads the companies to reduce their own services and materials expenditures, spending money to further lose money is not how it works.

Even the international market is going to other places for goods. Cheaper is better, everyone wants that coveted bargain deal. IMO, we're past peak here. Life in the monetary fast lane is virtually over for the US. I don't see our GDP returning to previous highs until other countries hit their own peak & stumble like we did. This is why capitalism is a calculated gamble, even the best gamblers lose enormously from time to time.

At this rate, you might as well start thinking of domestic spending as a version of expecting a tithe from the tightwads and the broke. No government mandate, no presidential plea is going to make them part with more money.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:29 PM
link   
Part of the effects of limits to growth coupled with increasing global debt created:

www.theguardian.com...



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:39 PM
link   
a reply to: Darkmadness

prices and wages are supposed to adjust in a market economy. 0% interest rate is preventing this, it is giving off false signals. Debt needs to be liquidated, defaulted, and destroyed.



posted on Nov, 29 2016 @ 09:50 PM
link   
I've been saying this for almost the entire time that i've been here, going on a year. The economy is straight up doodoo! the longest period of time without finishing the year over 3% GDP EVER in the history of the USA...11 years and counting.The second longest? 4...the first 4 years of the Great Depression. He will be the ONLY president to never hit the 3% growth rate...EVER. Only Herbert Hoover, Teddy Roosevelt, and Andrew Johnson will rank lower than him. Since the US dept. of labor began keeping records in 1941 Obama ranks 11th out of 13 presidents in job growth rate. He has been an economic failure.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 10:29 AM
link   

originally posted by: Nyiah
The thing is, no president can force people to crack open their wallet and spend to up that GDP. They can't force people to buy more services or products, they can't force companies to purchase more raw material to make and hopefully sell more product if no one's really willing to buy anything in the first place.


You can't force people to spend but most people spend 100% of their disposable income. I don't think the US savings rate is anything significant.

Why can't you just acknowledge you can't talk about wages without talking about purchasing power. If everyone is spending all their money on food and gasoline the economy is going no where.



originally posted by: Nyiah
The death knell for a capitalist consumerist society is when the consumers realize they don't need to have everything being churned out to be happy. We've about hit that point, millions of Americans have realized they need to learn to live within their means, and save their surplus money instead of spending it. As far as learning to save goes, better late than never.
That means less frivolous goods & services being bought, and less money companies are making. Which obviously leads the companies to reduce their own services and materials expenditures, spending money to further lose money is not how it works.


It's not about being happy. Every year the middle class is being driven deeper and deeper into poverty wages.

google "wealth inequality in America" and watch the video. The world you live in is pure delusion.

RE: "millions of Americans have realized they need to learn to live within their means, "

Why is it that people always attack the American people as being the problem. Why can't you consider the leadership and the people in power are the problem? Are you just incapable of criticizing the CEOs as being too greedy? Why is that?


originally posted by: Nyiah
Even the international market is going to other places for goods. Cheaper is better, everyone wants that coveted bargain deal. IMO, we're past peak here. Life in the monetary fast lane is virtually over for the US. I don't see our GDP returning to previous highs until other countries hit their own peak & stumble like we did. This is why capitalism is a calculated gamble, even the best gamblers lose enormously from time to time.


No one can compete with Chinese labor for a reason. It's not that American workers are lazy and stupid. The Chinese have pegged the Yuan 6 to 1 against the dollar. This means a CEO gets 6 Chinese workers for every one American worker. We can put every worker though graduate school and pay off our entire national debt and still the CEO will get 6 workers for every one American. As long as the Yuan is pegged to the dollar we are not going to see significant job growth in this country. No factory workers means no customers.


originally posted by: Nyiah
At this rate, you might as well start thinking of domestic spending as a version of expecting a tithe from the tightwads and the broke. No government mandate, no presidential plea is going to make them part with more money.


The only way to increase domestic spending is by either raising wages or having more people employed. Having customers creates jobs not tax cuts for the CEOs. The CEO simply cannot spend enough money to move the economy.
edit on 30-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 10:32 AM
link   
a reply to: dfnj2015

You do know that sustained growth is impossible right? You can't just magically manipulate the markets and produce a few extra percentage points of sustained GDP growth. In fact, there are economists starting to say that after 8 years of a growing economy expect a retraction in the near future.



new topics

top topics



 
9
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join