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Two Percent GDP Growth, WTF???

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posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:30 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

So let me get this straight you are saying that you feel bad for the countries that Obama screwed over, because they are never getting their money back.

Thanks for admitting it. For a minute there I thought you were going to deflect.




posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: SRPrime

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
a reply to: dfnj2015
That said theres millions of posts and threads on this site calling for blood and lynchings yet Im fairly certain this is the first time Ive ever seen anyone ask TPTB for anything semi nicely.
Ill be keeping a close eye on this thread just in case this new approach does work, good luck


It's not really "please sir may I have some more" type thinking. It's more like intellectual curiosity as to why keeping growth so low is so important from economic perspective. Just the hint at the possibility the economy have inflation people start calling for rate increases. I'm just trying to understand the motivations behind raising interest rates.

But in terms of please sir may I have some more, TPTB should not be an anchor or prevent the American worker making the median wage from "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness". The shadow government needs a spanking. I would like to see President Trump get the Treasury department to put some interest free legal tender into the economy so we can see some real GDP growth for change There's just not enough money floating around in the economy to grease this pig.

TPTB would not be TPTB if they did not have the power to make everyone miserable.


Raising interest rates creates stability. It needs to be done. When you raise interest rates, it becomes harder to get loans, so less bad loans go out. Interest rates get raised in savings too, so anybody who has money in holding stands to profit from it as well. When interest rates are low, you create artificial circulation, people spending other peoples money, and they end up trying to purchase things they can't afford and then they default.

Low interest rates lead to poverty and default. High interest rates lead to success and profit.

It's really simple. Interest rates have been low for almost 20 years now, and our prior economic situation was lavish, and our post economic situation is anguish. It's really the simplest cause->effect there is.


If interest rates rise too quickly many home owners will see a huge drop in the value of their house. This will also cause lots of problems. But I agree with you raising interest rates so a CD returns something close to inflation is a good thing.

However, still think the biggest problem our country faces is the cost of living keeps rising combined with no wage growth. Healthcare is out of control. And wealth inequality in this country continues to peak at all time highs. You can't have a good economy unless you have millions of customers with lots of cash in their pockets. It costs $32 to feed a family of four at Wendy's and that's cheap quality fast food! Pizza in my town went from $8 for a large plain to $14 for a large plain since 2008. My salary hasn't gone up 57% in that time.

Marx always said laissez faire capitalism is always followed by communism because unfettered greed would result in a government's currency collapse. Once the currency collapses people in bread lines will DEMAND more government not less. See you in the breadlines comrades!


True but not true. While their house might lose monetary value, that's because the dollar becomes stronger. Ideally, we want the value to be low, because that means the dollar is strong. I.E. A movie used to cost 25 cents, and a nickel on army bases. Now they cost 13-23$. If the movie was back to 25 cents because the dollar got stronger, that wouldn't actually be devaluing it, it would actually make it worth the same. Inflation/Deflation. Inflation happens when your economy is down and you bandaid it by printing more money and inserting more into circulation, deflation happens when your economy is booming, the dollar increases in worth, so the purchasing power of it does too, requiring you to have less in circulation. Economy booms when interest rates are high, so the property values decrease, because each dollar is worth more.


I agree except all the money in circulation is in too few hands. What we need is more money in circulation but in a much wider participation. It seems to me as more dollars are concentrated into fewer and fewer hands it becomes worth less. As the money is spread around to more people it becomes worth more especially when people become greedy about it in large numbers. Right now everything costs so much people are just not that enthusiastic about spending money.

Knowing what is right and what is wrong is very hard to determine since these factors are independent. Wages, taxes, and cost of living are all interrelated. Public policies causing greater GDP or reducing wealth inequality are hotly debated as being the right or wrong approach. Heck, people can't even agree on what problems are worth solving. For many ultra elite rich people there's absolutely nothing wrong with this economy.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:37 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Arizonaguy


Even worse, and this should be the defining issue of the 2016 elections, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is now forecasting that America will never see 3.0% economic growth again. This should be drawing howls of protest, at least from Republicans, but there has been little reaction thus far.

This sounds like an issue that is beyond Obama's fault. Though the article agrees with my hypothesis that we are sitting on the precipice of a new recession. Heck that article is saying we are already in one. All the way back in February.


From that article...



From 1790 to 2000, U.S. RGDP growth averaged 3.79%. America needs at least 3.0% economic growth-the nation cannot defend itself and pay its bills without it. However, America's elites have largely given up on growth, and are now distracting themselves with academic musings about "secular stagnation."


The CBO only deals with facts on hand. Under the current policies we can't expect to see solid growth. Rather than those on the left defending such direction, they should be agreeing and working to get out of this hole. But they want to over regulate everything. They want to tax the crap out of businesses. They want to play fast and loose with the job numbers when the truth is is that the job growth rate percentage numbers suck, and the quality of those jobs suck.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:39 AM
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originally posted by: Diisenchanted
a reply to: dfnj2015

So let me get this straight you are saying that you feel bad for the countries that Obama screwed over, because they are never getting their money back.

Thanks for admitting it. For a minute there I thought you were going to deflect.



I don't think Obama has screwed anyone. He's probably the least effective president in my life time. I do not even give him credit for even screwing up the economy. Much of the trillions of dollars of additional debt accumulated was from automatic entitlement spending increases from bills signed into law that Obama had nothing to do with.

You just seemed determined to hate Obama no matter what. As if Republicans are any better. Republicans are just as bad as Democrats. If you think otherwise, you are being delusional. Republicans are just as corrupt as Democrats. But what difference does it make now. All the Democrats, liberals, and progressives have been vanquished from our government. The Republicans simply have no one left to blame. The Republicans have ALL the power. The Republicans are now responsible for every public policy in this country.

What I don't understand why the Republicans did not outlaw abortion the last time they controlled all 3 branches of government back in 2002 through 2008. This is why I say Republicans are just as bad as Democrats. No principles.


edit on 30-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: typos



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:39 AM
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___
edit on 30-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: Arizonaguy

Look. I'm not saying the Democrats are blameless here. Far from it. I'm just trying to point out that Obama isn't solely at fault for this situation. A large part of this problem is the government's favorite pastime of "kick the can down the road" for any hard to solve problem. Something that both Republicans and Democrats (and even independents) practice.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:46 AM
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originally posted by: Arizonaguy

originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Arizonaguy


Even worse, and this should be the defining issue of the 2016 elections, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) is now forecasting that America will never see 3.0% economic growth again. This should be drawing howls of protest, at least from Republicans, but there has been little reaction thus far.

This sounds like an issue that is beyond Obama's fault. Though the article agrees with my hypothesis that we are sitting on the precipice of a new recession. Heck that article is saying we are already in one. All the way back in February.


From that article...



From 1790 to 2000, U.S. RGDP growth averaged 3.79%. America needs at least 3.0% economic growth-the nation cannot defend itself and pay its bills without it. However, America's elites have largely given up on growth, and are now distracting themselves with academic musings about "secular stagnation."


The CBO only deals with facts on hand. Under the current policies we can't expect to see solid growth. Rather than those on the left defending such direction, they should be agreeing and working to get out of this hole. But they want to over regulate everything. They want to tax the crap out of businesses. They want to play fast and loose with the job numbers when the truth is is that the job growth rate percentage numbers suck, and the quality of those jobs suck.


How can the US compete with cheap Chinese labor because they've pegged their Yuan currency to our dollar? How is that fair trade? We could pay off our entire national debt and the dollar would not go up in value against the Yuan. Yuan 6 to 1 means NO JOBS! No jobs means no customers.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: Arizonaguy
I have in fact posted this link before, but it appears to be needed again...
www.realclearmarkets.com...


Correlation does not prove causation. What did Obama do or not do that you think directly affected the economy?

Take healthcare premiums for example. Healthcare premiums have been rising on average 20% per year since 1995. This means every 5 years the premium doubles in price. Before and after the ACA was passed rates continue to rise 20% per year.

You could argue Obama has been great for the economy by allowing fracking to continue. I think you just want to blame Obama for something. It's not like this economy was losing 800,000 jobs per month like when Bush left.

Partisan bickering is so boring and predictable. Who cares who fault it is. More importantly, will Congress do anything to fix it? I say no. There are laws that enslave men and there are laws that set them free. The only ones we get are anti-labor. There really are very few laws passed by Congress that actually help worker's wages.


Obama's record on jobs just plain sucks. His job growth rate percentage is the third worst since records were accurately kept by the government. Only the two Bushes have a worse job record than he does. Don't even bring up skyrocketing health care costs...it was government that created the problem in the first place...




The U.S. “health care cost crisis” didn’t start until 1965. The government increased demand with the passage of Medicare and Medicaid while restricting the supply of doctors and hospitals. Health care prices responded at twice the rate of inflation (Figure 1). Now, the U.S. is repeating the same mistakes with the unveiling of Obamacare (a.k.a. “Medicare and Medicaid for the middle class”).

mises.org...

the rest of your post is your opinion, and you're entitled to it.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: Diisenchanted
a reply to: jimmyx

Another delusional leftist what part of 20 trillion in debt don't you understand.

10 trillion of that is on Obama!

As soon as Trump does some thing like that then maybe I'll buy in to your bull-crap. For now stop trying to sell it.


Just wait until he gets around to building that wall. *ahem* Excuse me. Fence now.


Hahaha -- look. I'm so tired of people like you. I don't advocate the wall, and it's certainly a bit out there, but the fact of the matter is, did you honestly think they are going to put a wall where a wall can't go? Like they are going to terraform mountains to put a wall in place where a fence works properly? It will still be a wall, just not in the areas where you can't build one.

That's beside the point though. The think that got me going here was how you sling to a half truth. So the entire wall becomes a fence, because the wall will have sections that are fence? Also -- while you might think he can't get mexico to pay for it, he honestly can -- he can just sanction imports to mexico until they either build the wall for us, or pay us to do it. Essentially the wall is an ultimatum to the mexican president. It says YOU keep your people out of our country illegally, or YOU will pay for us to defend our border from mexico's criminals.

I don't think anyone actually expects a wall to pop up, because it's not going to happen, but the threat of the wall and the mass deportation of illegals will send a message that the time for sneaky beaky border hopping is over -- and that's what NEEDS to happen.

A wall the length of the border would take more than 8 years to build anyway, so the cost of it is dissolved over time. Consider this -- even if he paid for the wall, it'd still not be 1$ trillion total added to the debt -- we are talking somewhere like 13-18 billion -- not one thousand billion, or like Obama, ten thousand billion added to the debt.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

I agree with you...it's 50 years of bad policy that has created this mess...but when people start defending the Obama economy it needs pointing out that it sucks. Totally his fault? no. Good economy? Absolutely not



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I agree with you...it's 50 years of bad policy that has created this mess...but when people start defending the Obama economy it needs pointing out that it sucks. Totally his fault? no. Good economy? Absolutely not


Its better than 2008 when Bush left office.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: SRPrime

Wow someone got triggered over a passing remark.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:52 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

That is what needs to be figured out. How do we compete? Shrugging our collective shoulders and being resigned to defeat is not the answer.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:54 AM
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originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t

I agree with you...it's 50 years of bad policy that has created this mess...but when people start defending the Obama economy it needs pointing out that it sucks. Totally his fault? no. Good economy? Absolutely not

It's an adequate economy. It's not like we are as bad off as if we were in a recession, but you are right there are very big problems with it. Problems that I spent the better part of Obama's Presidency complaining about. Granted a lot of that has fallen by the way side as even a sluggish economy gets to acceptable levels eventually, but it's not like I haven't forgotten how long it took us to get here. Plus now that we are here, we are just going to crash again in short order.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:54 AM
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a reply to: dfnj2015

So that's good enough for you I guess...he beat Bush. He beat one of the worst presidents ever. When you set your sights low, then you will never finish high.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:56 AM
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originally posted by: Arizonaguy
a reply to: dfnj2015

That is what needs to be figured out. How do we compete? Shrugging our collective shoulders and being resigned to defeat is not the answer.


The people in power do not want change. They usually get what they want.

We tried lower taxes and less regulation from 2000 to 2008. The result was a disaster. And effin black guy was elected president! We don't want to repeat that cluster eff again.
edit on 30-11-2016 by dfnj2015 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t

Well yeah, if we remain on the current course we surely will crash. When the two biggest drivers of the economy are the Wall Street gambling scam and government in one form or another we are doomed to crash.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:04 PM
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a reply to: Arizonaguy

I'm mostly worried about the protracted super low interest rates, QEing (which apparently ended 2 years ago but is still kind of ongoing), and the student loan bubble. Those are really my biggest concerns. The QEing has been slowly turned off, but the damage has already been done there.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:27 PM
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originally posted by: Krazysh0t
a reply to: Arizonaguy

I'm mostly worried about the protracted super low interest rates, QEing (which apparently ended 2 years ago but is still kind of ongoing), and the student loan bubble. Those are really my biggest concerns. The QEing has been slowly turned off, but the damage has already been done there.


And what drives two of the items that you mentioned? Why it's the good old Federal government that has given us artificially low interest rates and the student loan bubble. When you add in artificially high property values you can agree that the government has won the triple crown of ineffective economic management and leadership.



posted on Nov, 30 2016 @ 12:35 PM
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a reply to: Arizonaguy

Don't forget the market bubble that's been forming and taking off since Trump hit office.

That bad boy is going to make 3 people super wealthy and crush everyone else's pension and 401k.



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