Muslims Understand Jesus More Than Christians

From my point of view.

When I read Yeshua:s word and ponder their meaning I see a teacher of separating the souls who can behave from those who cannot raise above their predatory nature. A call for working to fix yourself as good as you can so that you become as non predatory as possible. Sheeps and goats is a perfect example of this. When compared with Rumi/Nanak/Buddha Yeshua:s teachings are close to the non dualistic striving.

Paul for me is a person who idolizes a name creating a dualistic "us vs them" based on who follows his teachings but you have to analyze every word deeply and logically to see this. This is creating a predatory behavior towards those who do not follow Paul:s Idol. Fortunately Paul:s duality mess have been minimized by christian reformation and push towards secular ideas so that Christians can live in peace with atheists, Buddhists, Taoists, Sikhs and Hindus.

Muhammad might be right that you should not idolize Jesus name but that do not mean you should idolize Muhammad and his teachings. Muhammad as written in the Quran is even worse then Paul when it comes to enforcing predatory behavior and duality towards non believers of Muhammad. Maybe one day Islam will reform so that the dualistic (us vs them) predatory behavior is minimized. This is a good start.

a reply to: UFOdanger

Let me start by saying that his name is not Jesus. You hear many people say his name was either Yeshua or Yashua, the key word here is "was." His name was Yahshua. That does not mean he would be called Yahshua today. The modern term for that name is Joshua. The correct name is Joshua the Messiah, which means Joshua the Christ. This is the most bold example out of many that shows how the religion started, what were the correct teachings, or what were the circumstances around the life of Christ.

Yeshua is the Hebrew name for Jesus.The English spelling of Yeshua is “Joshua.” However, when you translate from Hebrew into the Greek language the name Yeshua becomes Iēsous. The English spelling for Iēsous is “Jesus.” There ya go. That is the reason we use Jesus, so your most bold point goes out the window.

Is it not claimed in a 6th century Hebrew Christian document that Paul was truly born of Greek parents? Yes, and the true Christians not only opposed Paul but they were persecuted by him, and he told you that he changed from a vision, but I am telling you the Jewish Christians wrote down to is that he was a "liar."

Oh really? Some unknown document from 500 years later. Want to source that for us? From my understanding Paul was both a Jew and a Roman Citizen. He even says so in his own writings which we have. So your argument against the evidence against your position is oh he was a liar. Not a very good historical argument.

But I affirm to you with all of my heart, that Christ strongly opposed being worshiped.

Yes lets ignore the fact that people worship and bow to Jesus numerous times in the new testament and he doesn't correct them. Let's ignore that he claims to be God in the flesh numerous times one of my favorite would be:

Matthew 22
41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?
45 If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.

His message is to worship the Mother/Father of heaven, and yes, the Hebrew scripts made reference to a female/male gender and did not call God a "He".

God is no more male or female than a table is.

In Christ words, he would say "I am the son of man, I am mere dust that is found on the desert ground."

Where does Christ say this? Sounds to me like you are making up quotes because a google search of this only pulls up your post.

Why don't we look at another reference to the Son of Man:

John 3
13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.

So the Son of Man descended from heaven.

Do you even know where this title comes from? It comes from Daniel:

13"I kept looking in the night visions, And behold, with the clouds of heaven One like a Son of Man was coming, And He came up to the Ancient of Days And was presented before Him. 14"And to Him was given dominion, Glory and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations and men of every language Might serve Him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion Which will not pass away; And His kingdom is one Which will not be destroyed.

Daniel says of the Messiah that he will be called by many names one of which is the mighty God. You simply don't know why Christians believe what they believe because things discerned by the spirit are blind to you.

He had a humble philosophy of care and love, even a term called "suffering servant."

My God can you be more blinded. The suffering servant is a reference to Isaiah 53 which describes the death of Christ many years before he is crucified.

Vatican in awe? Then they discredited this piece of archaeological evidence that scientists identify as historic? The Vatican lies to every one of your faces, and I feel sorry for you.

Let us conveniently leave out the fact that this Bible contains modern day Assyrian inside of it, and if it were really written 1500 years ago should be written in classical Assyrian. Lets also leave out the fact that it has an inscription on the inside of it that says it was written in the year 1500. That is about 500 years ago not 1500 big difference.

www.aina.org...

Lol look at the picture. That is 1500 years old and they attack paper clips to it? Yeah right. What a joke.

This is the only item from the list that is a fable in Muslim culture. But how can you blame them? The Romans and Greeks manipulated this story so much you have no idea, the truth was absolutely lost. They get this story from a story about Joseph of Arithmathea. Arithmathea is not a Hebrew word, it is a Greek word, and if you trace the historical references, this character is Joseph the father of Christ.

I see a lot of unsupported claims. You are claiming they manipulated the story where is the evidence? He is called Joseph of Arimathea because he came from the Judean town of Arimathea.....

I can't even respond to number 5 I don't even know what point you are trying to make.

Again, Christians have this way more wrong. From all Hebrew references Including the dead sea scrolls, it is written that the way to be saved is to believe in the teachings of Christ, and if you believe in him, then you obviously choose to act according to them, and I will tell you right now, that his teachings which were covered up from the world, are specific to a bold representation of peace, such as outlawing hunting to care for animals, and even becoming vegetarian for the purpose in order to harm no animals.

Christianity is the only unique message among the religions of the world. Every religion aside from Christianity teaches that it is by your own works that you get into heaven. This is a lie, and if you seek to fall into be my guest. You do not do what is good for reward but you do it simply for goodness sake. God does not force me to act a certain way in order to gain his love. He grants it to me freely and allows me to either accept or reject that love. My actions are for me to choose and as a person goes closer to Christ the sins the used to enjoy become less appeasing simply because the person that they are is changing not from the outside in but from the inside out. This walk is slower for some people than others, but God is there for all of us at every point with open arms. Maybe Christians should be vegetarians who knows. I love animals, but I also love meat. I also don't agree with eating animal with higher forms of pain awareness like monkeys, dolphins, elephants, whales, but animals like cows and pigs are said to have a lower form of pain awareness in which the experience mental states of pain, but are not aware of being in such a state. So it makes me feel a little better

originally posted by: JDmOKI
a reply to: UFOdanger

as a lover of history Muhammad was a religious warlord and not a prophet

my point is that saying Muslims know Jesus more then Christians is a dumb argument and is known conversion tactic of Islam to get christians.to join the club

Again this is based more on personal views. If I was to teach people my religion and show them The Way it would be the equivalent to a first century ascetic monk, from Judea, or from Mount Carmel. I know the difference to what Josephus called Essenism and what was created by the corrupt elite, like Paul, he was a Greek with clout in the world, and he decided to lie for dominance, the same people are still doing it today.

a reply to: VegHead

I know that you have studied and know Christ more than a modern Christian. When we are talking about Christianity the forefront of historical truth is that most of the religion contained and distributed forged documents. These forgers later became called heretics, but the early church fathers, who were Gentiles, took this label and placed it on the Hebrew Christians to kill them. This was like a near ancient counter intelligence scandal. This started as a way to serve the world, and turned into a way to control the world. Scholars like Bart D. Ehrman don't even speak the half of it. These scriptures we have, are deliberately falsified on so many levels that you have no idea!

originally posted by: UFOdanger
a reply to: Zimnydran

I have to go for a minute, but I have factual evidence to show the world that proves without a shadow of doubt that You are Wrong.

The origin of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which were written between 150 B.C. and 70 A.D
Google

70 A.D, AD, AD....

No, you have something quoted there with no reference as to where its quoted from.

Try again

Again this is based more on personal views. If I was to teach people my religion and show them The Way it would be the equivalent to a first century ascetic monk, from Judea, or from Mount Carmel.

Your religion?

What might that be?

Is this religion recognized by other faiths or is your religion simply just your own personal beliefs?

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: UFOdanger

Foolish of you, posting a thread about Jesus from the middle east..... his real teachings, etc.. to ignorant masses who believes their own version of bacon loving Jesus!

Let me share with you, the real teachings.

I will skip loving your neighbor, giving him a loaf of bread, letting him sleep in your house, caring for him if he is sick, visiting him when he needs it, being a humble servant, and get straight to the core teachings -

* Fast for about 4 to 5 days, and on the last day immerse yourself in a flowing river and then let the sun dry you off afterwards.

* Pray every day all day

* Sell your things and give them to the poor (no Christian can become a multi millionaire)

From the apostles:

1:1 There are two ways, one of life and one of death, and there is a great difference between the two ways.
1:2 [The way of life] is this.
1:3 First of all, [thou shalt love the God] that made thee;
1:4 secondly, [thy neighbour as thyself.]
1:5 [And all things whatsoever thou wouldest not have befal thyself neither do thou unto another.]
1:6 Now of these words the doctrine is this.
1:7 [Bless them that curse you, and pray for] your enemies and fast for [them that persecute you;
1:8 for what thank is it, if ye love them that love you? Do not even the Gentiles the same? But do ye love them that hate you,] and ye shall not have an enemy.
1:9 Abstain thou from fleshly and bodily lusts.
1:10 [If any man give thee a blow on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also,] and thou shalt be perfect;
1:11 [if a man impress thee to go with him, one mile, go with him twain;
1:12 if a man take away thy cloak, give him thy coat also;
1:13 if a man take away from thee that which is thine own, ask it not back,] for neither art thou able.
1:14 [To every man that asketh of thee give, and ask not back;]
1:15 for the Father desireth that gifts be given to all from His own bounties.

a reply to: UFOdanger

* Sell your things and give them to the poor

So do you steal the things you sold to give it to the poor?

How does one sell their things and also give it to the poor without stealing it back, do you buy it back with the money you made from selling them?

(no Christian can become a multi millionaire)

If they sell all their things and they have a lot of valuable things then they might become multi millionaires.

Even if they give away all the money they were still multi millionaires for a moment.

So according to your real teachings, A Christian is OK being a millionaire but is forbidden from being a multi millionaire?

going by your title, if Muslims understand Jesus better than Christians, are there no Muslim Multi millionaires?


You keep quoting things yet fail to show where you are quoting from.

anyway good luck in spreading your gospel

originally posted by: VigiliaProcuratio
And in the words of William Shakespeare... what's in a name?

And I say... that a man is not a name, and nor is he a number, but he is a man.

And who of you here would be concerned about the man, more-so than his name?

Is it not enough to bring Good Tidings, that thou must quarrel who the messenger is?

Beautiful, my tithing is to die for the well being of a person who causes me injustice. I am persecuted in the worst way, I am hated after I was fooled into thinking I was loved, by my own self, and now I deserve my own death. I even prayed not to go to the pit on the same day I was sent down, God don't abandon me please. I know that you are everything and that I am nothing. I am less than the dust on the ground they walk on. Please God, don't abandon me.

Though in ancient times, for some reason it was a major disgrace to address somebody as a wrong name. That is why they changed the name to Joshua (nobody even knows who that is when I say that), Jacob (again nobody knows I am talking about the brother of Christ), John the "Baptist" Jesus of "Nazareth" Iesus the Nazar (Iesus was his name to the white people before Jesus (my Aramaic gospel still has Iesus, so even the Jewish scripture handed down to us today has been altered, in no way we have the originals in the public), Mary of Magdalena should be Mary the Magdalene, Judas Iscariot, read Josephus, Judas was the name of a Zealot rebel, Iscariot was the name of the group because of the knives they used, all the names in our bible are literary compositions.

a reply to: JDmOKI
Actually, I recognize it more as an appeal to pride and demonstration of it (for those who like their ears tickled with it, what they want to hear and like to believe).

'We know better'. That idea. Also a demonstration of being conditioned with the following techniques:

Some propagandists play on pride. Often we can spot appeals to pride by looking for such key phrases as: “Any intelligent person knows that . . .” or, “A person with your education can’t help but see that . . .” A reverse appeal to pride plays on our fear of seeming stupid. Professionals in persuasion are well aware of that.
...
The propagandist makes sure that his message appears to be the right and moral one and that it gives you a sense of importance and belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are not alone, you are comfortable and secure—so they say.

Source: article in my sig.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
First that is something only Christ and his FATHER can say.

I am merely pointing out facts, such as the fact that Christ never said Father (only). In every correct translation of what Christ said, the name for God he gave was "Mother-Father," one scholar gave the translation as "Birthing One." To call God merely Father is a Greek practice that Christ never engaged in. Christ said "The Mother of Earth and Father of Heaven," but every time he included Mother and Father in the same sentence.

Second ISLAM Denies Christ was crucified.

Yes I touched on this in my post. There is much historical evidence to suggest that Christ was not crucified. One key evidence to support this from our bible is that Christ was on the cross for 6 hours. A man cannot die on the cross for 6 hours. So do you argue that Christ was not a man and therefore died in 6 hours? Even when the Hebrew scriptures testified he was not supernatural? Well listen, there is a story by the Jewish historian of the first century Josephus, and he relates that Christ was taken down from the cross based on negotiations with Joseph of Arithmathea. This would confirm with not only much historical evidence, but also with the dead sea scrolls. My friend, Christ was exiled, not murdered on the cross. It was his brother James (Jacob) who was murdered by the Jews. So do you now understand why the bible gives this one truth, that Christ was on the cross for 6 hours? Because he was on the cross, only for 6 hours, then exiled, it is historical that Mary Magdalene was exiled also.

Denies that he was the son of God and claim's he is inferior to Muhammad.
Denies the Resurrection of Christ.

Yes we went over that.
The resurrection. Listen. The Aramaic scriptures do not give reference to a resurrection, but they do reference the death of Christ. I had been written in the language of Christ, that he did not resurrect, but he Ascended. The death of Christ was an "Ascension." You really think Christ came back as a zombie in reality?? Just like the Son of God term, the Greeks took what the Hebrews said as an idiom and made it real. This happened everywhere, "he made the blind see," Greeks interpret that is creating miracles, apostles meant it as a metaphor, "he made the lame walk," Greeks interpret that is creating miracles, apostles meant it as a metaphor, "he made the deaf hear," Greeks interpret that is creating miracles, apostles meant it as a metaphor. Exact same thing with resurrection. When Christ said that, he meant your spirit, not your body.

Rewrite's and reinterpret's christ's word's (those that it keep's and does not discard) in order to make them fit with the Alien ideology of Islam and the claim that the God of Chaos and rebellion aka Allah is Jehova when in fact he is not.

To me that is outlandish thinking, Islam is made from paganism as well as Christianity, but to say that individual Muslims are praying to the devil when they react out into the universe calling to God, that is not right.

You say christian's have it wrong, You are wrong the scroll's of the Essene sect do not trump Christ he is the son of God the living word, when he ascended he did so with cloud's do you even understant that, how many spirit's appear as mist or cloud though they may make themselves appear more distinct.
Clound - spirit not water vapor cloud, when he come's every eye shall see him.
Those BEHEADED for his name sake shall come with him and those that beheaded them shall tremble, Who behead's christian's and has done since the 7th century?, so who shall know terror.

He shall not come back physically to were muhammad claimed as that was a lie, he shall return to the mount of olive's from where he ascended (became spirit again - he is part of god, spirit from spirit, true god from true god).

ISLAM is WRONG.

Maybe you are a little immature in your studies. Many more people killed the Jewish Christians than just Muslims, before the Muslims in fact is when most of them were murdered. The scrolls of the Essene sect do no trump Christ? I do not understand your comment.

originally posted by: UFOdanger

Iesus was his name to the white people before Jesus (my Aramaic gospel still has Iesus, so even the Jewish scripture handed down to us today has been altered, in no way we have the originals in the public)

Well since there was no j in Aramaic/Hebrew in those times, it stands to chance that it was indeed an i. Even today the Hebrew letter ו is used in the case of both letters, and others, although there might be differences between their usage in respect of dialect. So yes, pronouncing a j when referring to Christ seems incorrect.

Consider Jupiter as well - even the Latin version is Iuppiter, no "j" in there. Speaking of which, there is a stark similarity between that word and Jehovah, or rather in respect of Jove.

Now that you've got me started on this subject... I've just noticed something. The Welsh for Jupiter is Iau (again, an "i" instead of "j"), while the same word in Welsh can also mean yoke. The yoke was bar put across two oxen for agriculture, and the Hebrew for this is seemingly עול, which could more accurately mean burden or to harm. Certainly, having a yoke across the nape would surely be a burden and harmful, but let's put those meanings aside and instead concentrate on the sound of the word - we have what might sound like "aisle". An aisle could the "wing of an animal", which is precisely where a yoke is placed. Further, איל also sounds the same and can refer to either the ram or as a word for God. Thus, there appears to be some kind of intrinsic link between the planet, the animal and religion.

originally posted by: mekhanics
a reply to: UFOdanger

Foolish of you, posting a thread about Jesus from the middle east..... his real teachings, etc.. to ignorant masses who believes their own version of bacon loving Jesus!

I bet he did, after all in Matthew 15 he did say:

10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.” 12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?” 13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides.[d] If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”

a reply to: UFOdanger

I don't know if my post was ignored or not seen but I'd like to hear your opinion on what I said as I feel it shows your position is kind of silly.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Nice post, very concise!

a reply to: VigiliaProcuratio
Let me see if I can also make up some stuff to avoid having to acknowledge God's only name is spelled Jehovah in English communication ("Iehova" in Latin), using your type of logic...

Jove sounds like Java, Java is produced by the company Oracle as a program for computers, one can also make coffee from Java beans (or it's a brand of coffee). Thus, there appears to be some kind of intrinsic link between computers, coffee and religion. And God has many names, one of which is Oracle, another is Java and yet another is Green Mountain Coffee.

The last sentence uses some logic and argumentation from others in this thread or ATS in general. Btw, there's no "i" in ancient Hebrew either, ancient Hebrew doesn't use the Roman alphabet. The bible writers who wrote in Greek showed that there is no issue with transliterating and translating Hebrew names. If they can use an "i" for the Hebrew yodh, there should be no debate about whether or not using a "j" in English is OK. Unless you want to obscure that God's name was removed and deceptively replaced in bible translations for centuries now, approx. 7000 times. And confuse people some more by telling them God has many names or it's not important to know and praise the name Jehovah as the unique name of God, clearly identifying him as someone other than Jesus, or Allah or the Deistic God (Spinoza's God), or some nameless God or Pantheistic concept of God (the Mystery God, God is a mystery, we can't know God, making Him impersonal, God is in all of us, Mother Nature, Gaia, Nature is intelligent, the God with many names, God is everything, etc.).

The Lie That Made God a Mystery
1 God Is a Mystery—Is It True?
The Fight Against God’s Name: Awake!—2004

originally posted by: UFOdanger

originally posted by: xizd1
ROFLMAO!!!

How can you possibly claim to speak for a whole religion, much less two?
Do you have any facts to back up your claim of knowing what all these diverse peoples believe?
What an ego.

Funny indeed - how you are being a judge right now, and how God loves to see that when human beings judge, they are wrong, because only God is the correct judge. If you would like to get more personal, I have no ego, and I am a servant, of those who persecute me. I am speaking for the religion because I know that billions of people have been deceived by a relatively few elite in Christianity, Islam and even Judaism has it's ruthless, wicked lies meant to deceive the masses. I am presenting facts in my posts, any question that anyone has, I will back it up with Hebrew or Aramaic scripture, or other scripture that was written by copying Jewish Christian texts. I just mentioned that I do not have the time to gather all this material together, I might as well author a book if I did that.

I am not judging anything. I am asking you to substantiate your claims. I am stating a fact when I say you can NOT possibly know the hearts and minds of others. You are making a broad sweeping statement that has no basis in reality.
I will be anxiously awaiting your facts.

originally posted by: Josephus

Yes, and the true Christians not only opposed Paul but they were persecuted by him, and he told you that he changed from a vision, but I am telling you the Jewish Christians wrote down to is that he was a "liar."

As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 2 Peter 3:16

Why, if Paul was deemed a liar, would Peter refer to his epistles as scripture?

Because the word is translated wrong.

It should just be writings. Scripture was not what the Law and Prophets portion of the Tanakh was called just lesser writings.

And the Vatican itself admits it pseudepigraphal so Peter didn't write it.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

Hey, I will get to things soon, there are some posts that need to be settled with facts.

I mentioned the source was Google, all you have to do is type when the Dead Sea scrolls were written. I am aware that the media tries to undermine the scrolls written in the first century, although all scholars admit there are some, none give examples except maybe the pesher techniques. I am telling you that I have studied enough to understand without a doubt which scrolls were written in the first century and which were written or copied before.

Yes my religion is recognized, as the Nazarene church, but there is plain evidence and witnesses to the fact that many of our scriptures have become classified and kept secret inside the Vatican vaults and also some made it to the CIA. This is because they all share the true historic nature of the teachings, which as I mentioned became corrupt so they expose way too much. So it is a fight for the bishops and deacons of my religion to even obtain the historic texts, this brings the chance for misundestanding, but I have uncovered the true scriptures that we can obtain, and I have uncovered the true teachings which are not easy by any means, but they are indeed The Way.

originally posted by: [post=21528823]Raggedyman
What I find funny is that Islam is a religion that is only 1400 years old, some 600 years after Christ
600 years of nothingness, how can it claim knowledge of anything that happened prior to its own birth.
Divine revelation?

The whole concept is a joke, Islam, the moon religion of the ancients understands Jesus?
Would Jesus have ever used a sword or gun
Did Jesus have a preteen bride
Did Christ ever call for jihad

Understand Jesus, not according to their actions

I understand what you mean, and my post comes off very strange at first. Basically I am claiming that I can prove that western Pauline Christianity is so tremendously corrupt from the very inside that Muslims have a better understanding of the historical Christ from their own scriptures.

You can have knowledge of the past, it is the future which would be hard to determine.

Christ used a sword in our bible yes. Peter also used a sword. I have also read the legitimate texts from Peter as I mentioned that I know Peter better now as I have read from him, and do I believe for a second that he cut the ear of a soldier with his sword? No I do not. Do I believe Christ told his apostles to travel with swords? No I do not. I am contending that the bible is lying, because I know that they tried to use the story of a Zealot named Judas as a historical reference to the life of Christ. They did this to utterly confuse the birth of the church which was brought about by Christ as his brothers.

a reply to: UFOdanger

You talk a lot about facts and maybe you have them. Every post though you just expect us to take your word for it.