LEAKED paper confirms NASA warp drive

It's an interesting step forwards but there's still a looooong way to go to adequately confirm the results.

Edit: some interesting observations here: www.reddit.com...

Turns out it's not Nasa nor is it new information.

Name dropping NASA does not help their cause.

The paper is not leaked. It's just paper from 2015 from the same guys who are pushing the EMDrive. Before Harold G. White was for EmDrive he was for Alcubierre "warp" drive.

1. The group has been working from 2011 and results are consistently close to the detection threshold of their sensors. They are always flirting with the measurement error. They can't get published in peer reviewed journals and even arXiv turns them down because their job is not solid.

2. Eagleworks is a small lab that only got $50,000 from NASA in 2011.

3. White has a day job in NASA and he is working with this project in his free time.

That's some serious red flags that have been raised. My skept-o-meter is in the red. Oh well, back to the drawing board.

originally posted by: ms898
a reply to: projectvxn

Yes I have used the wrong language and i am aware of the tech as it has been discussed on this forum before lol. its had without seeing the paper but I believe it would explain the tech and %100 confirms its practicality in action.

I would very much like to see the leaked paper. (why did it get taken down?)

Kudos to you for stepping up and saying you chose the wrong language in your thread title. I'll now check out future threads of yours since I know you're not posting click bait. Integrity counts...

And I too would love to read the paper...

a reply to: TrueBrit

Wow, you are a font of knowledge in this field, thank you for explaining that to me

This is why I love ATS...

originally posted by: Hermit777

originally posted by: PorteurDeMort
OK, not to sound cliche but... I'll believe when I see it.

The EM drive is real, what it will actually do is the question but it could cut Earth to Mars down to 70 days v. 500 days

Well, somethng called the EM drive is real. However, nobody has been able to find any real confirmation of the production of reactionless thrust (i.e., confirmation that the effects seen are not something mundane, but hidden, such as thermal effects).

Every study so far that has found apparent thrust has also later come to the conclusion that the thrust was not produced by means of a reactionless EM drive.

Nothing about this announcement seems like anything new. It seems to just be a rehash of a months-old story.

OK. So we have some people correcting the title. NASA Confirms EMdrive produces thrust. And there like a hundred threads on this device here on ATS. If you had gone to the Science and Tech forum you would have seen an update posted 23 hours ago by yours truly: RF resonant cavity thruster (EM Thruster) pass initial vacuum tests for JSC Eagleworks!.

You would have seen that the topic of "leaked" has already been breached. 1.2 mN of thrust per kilowatt after error corrections as measured by NASA. And you may have seen this click-bait headline on google as well: Controversial Propellentless EmDrive is said to be undergoing tests in space on the Tiangong-2 station and US Air Force X-37B plane (from Nextbigfuture.com as the other link is a site in China).

That is a thread worthy topic (X37-B). The next evolution of the EMdrive (at least patent wise), is use a superconducting plate as a reflector. Why? Not sure but the guy thinks he may get a ton of thrust out of it!

PS - The EMdrive is designed to be used outside the atmosphere and not in the presence of gravity. And the X37-B is not testing the drive--it is doing something way more cool!

a reply to: ms898

This is interesting but as far as I know the EM drive has already been proven to work but it's propulsion is too low for on earth use and will be more useful once a craft is out of the atmosphere, it provides a slow but constant acceleration so can eventually push craft to incredible speed's but it's thrust to weight ratio is very low.

The Warp drive as seen in this concept art of a future NASA warp ship is actually a different technology to the EM cavity drive, it too probably work's as the theory is apparently sound and so if a leak on this Other technology has been released showing that it has been successfully demonstrated then that is great news, the warp drive is not quite as fast as the fantasy star trek warp drive but will still enable true potential interstellar mission's in which a probe or craft will be able to visit other star's at RELATIVE velocity's that would make it possible to be done within the lifetime of it's builders rather than the thousand's of years that normal rocket's would take and also potentially a heck of a lot faster even than the EM cavity drive which is best explained as being similar to the star trek fantasy impulse engines (Actually marry the two technology's and you could build a real enterprise in theory).
www.inquisitr.com...

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF

Yep! Picking up the metals being made in space by the aliens!

I have a question what about travel from Sol to Proxima Centauri 4.2 light years away with this EM drive?

This opens up the inner-solar system to us for mining.

a reply to: AshFan

They are making it onboard but, yeah, metamaterials and nanospheres.

a reply to: Kashai

The question was answered over at: If EM Drive works, how long to get to nearest Star?.

So, 10 weeks to get to Mars with the current model probably rules out getting to Proxima Centauri B any time soon.



The paper is being published in December so this is not really "news" but more of a follow up on what they were doing at Eagleworks with their final results added. Somebody decided to publish the results prior to the agreed upon date in the Journal of Propulsion and Power (see, Wikipedia link: RF Thruster, under the NASA/JSC section for more info)

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF


Yeah but 24 thousand years is at the very least an improvement over 50 million.


I mean especially taking into consideration Voyager 1's launch date.

September 5, 1977, 12:56:00 UTC

a reply to: Kashai

And that was the model that is being discussed in the "leaked" paper. The next model is supposed to be better.

I am kind of worried this might be over hyped. The current model from the paper makes a "grain of rice" thrust and the next model is supposed to do a ton. Talk about "mole hill to mountain"!

Maybe the souped up one will cut that 24 thousand down to under a hundred years!

Fun to ponder over without having to know how to fold space!

a reply to: TEOTWAWKIAIFF


This is a PDF File on the EM thruster...

www.emdrive.com...

Based on the data we can achieve a speed of 0.67c "(where c is the speed of light)".

10 years to the nearest star.

a reply to: TrueBrit

Certainly eventually give us the ability to cruise and possibly colonise our own star system if taken to its logical conclusion.

Hopefully it does indeed do what it says on the tin.

Well... here in Denmark the leak is being picked up as truth in the science end of media

Tourist travel to the moon anyone?

originally posted by: flice
Well... here in Denmark the leak is being picked up as truth in the science end of media

Tourist travel to the moon anyone?

It's true that the EM drive is being studied, and it has been no secret that it is being studied. In fact, it's been a well-known thing for a few years now among people who are interested in space exploration technology. There is no "hoax story" there.

However, what is still unknown, and still not confirmed, is if this EM drive is actually producing the kind of reactionless and propellant-less thrust its inventor says it is delivering, or if that thrust is coming from an unknown testing error (i.e., is the thrust coming from some other mundane effect, such as an unseen thermal effect, rather than coming from the "seemingly impossible-according-to-known-physics" effect).

So if the media in Denmark is reporting that the cause of the thrust is unknown, then that's old news. If they are reporting that the EM drive is working as advertised by its inventor, than that news would require some evidence to corroborate it.

At issue with this technology is how exactly does it work when it violates the law on conservation.

So its more than just about space travel it represents a fundamental shift in physics like a WOW moment.

The tests to date have shown that this engine officially has passed static tests so the next step is a functional prototype in the form of a satellite, perhaps to a trip to Mars.

A warp drive that can get to the Moon in 4 hours is not exactly Earth shattering.

a reply to: Mogget

That is because it is not a "warp drive"...

[The conservation of momentum] law states that within a system, the amount of momentum remains constant and is neither created nor destroyed, but only changes through the action of forces. Since the EM Drive involves electromagnetic microwave cavities converting electrical energy directly into thrust, it has no reaction mass. It is therefore "impossible", as far as conventional physics go.

The report, titled "Measurement of Impulsive Thrust from a Closed Radio Frequency Cavity in Vacuum", was apparently leaked in early November. It's lead author is predictably Harold White, the Advanced Propulsion Team Lead for the NASA Engineering Directorate and the Principal Investigator for NASA's Eagleworks lab.

As he and his colleagues (allegedly) report in the paper, they completed an impulsive thrust test on a "tapered RF test article". This consisted of a forward and reverse thrust phase, a low thrust pendulum, and three thrust tests at power levels of 40, 60 and 80 watts. As they stated in the report:

"It is shown here that a dialectically loaded tapered RF test article excited in the TM212 mode at 1,937 MHz is capable of consistently generating force at a thrust level of 1.2 ± 0.1 mN/kW with the force directed to the narrow end under vacuum conditions."

Phys.org, Nov. 11, 2016 - Was physics really violated by EM drive in 'leaked' NASA paper?

So there is the meat of the paper and the "violation" of physics. If this is the paper from JSC and it has not been altered then it is kinda ground breaking. Although not much thrust is being made there is a measurable amount after taking errors into consideration.

This is not supposed to happen according to our study and application of physics. I think an apocryphal saying from Galileo is appropriate, "Yet it moves."