Manchild of Revelation 12 and the 144,000

a reply to: ntech

the Witnesses are important and they come at the start of the final end times.
Most believe, those are Enoch and Elijah who didn't die but were taken body and soul to heaven (or better say to another planet).
Manchild is someone else, imo.
144,000 are crucial to decipher it because they come before the manchild and before the witnesses as well (chapter 7 is before 11 and 12).

The catholic clergy celibacy, that is not dating back to apostles' time, perhaps intended to make the priests to be those 144,000. However the history proved it was not the case.

I respect the catholic clergy as authentic bearers of the sacraments, anointed ones, and so on (as well as the clergy of any other church with apostolic succession). However it is a time the catholic (and other) church to recognize their view on the end time prophecy is desperately outdated. On November 1st the reading is Revelation 7. Every year I expect something more as homily, and every year I get old outdated interpretation. After all, the canonical book of Revelation says those people exist. And not only they but also the uncountable number of suffering people on earth who will be rewarded, not after their deaths (everyone righteous would be rewarded after death) but also in the next part of their lives and the next era to come. One could say, those multitudes are taken away from planet earth at some point before the final end times. Whether this is the case or not, the presence of both groups on earth, the anointed innocent youths with Jewish origin (it could be not 100% though), and the grossly suffering people, should be taken into cooperation by today's clergy that holds the holy sacraments if they want to partake in the final events and not to be worthless observers.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Once in 7,000 years - and it falls on the Feast of Trumpets - It is a real possibility.


And a great sign appeared in Heaven: a woman who was wearing the Sun, and the Moon was under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars on her head (Starts November 20th, 2016. Ends on September 23rd, 2017

The Revelation 12 Child Exposed! | The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Sign


Revelation 12 & The Male Child: Part 1 of 2


Revelation 12 & The Male Child: Part 2 of 2

a reply to: lostgirl

Ok, continuing on.

I forgot to add in my opening that Revelation1 tells you exactly how to interpret the book.
The unveiling of Jesus Christ, (we already covered) which God gave him, to show his servants things That must shortly come to pass (not 2000 years into the future). Sent by a messenger (angel means messenger), and signified (given in signs/symbols.)

Lets go back into the OT where these symbols are drawn from that are used in Johns Apocalypse.

Isa 25
6On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples
a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine,
of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.
7And he will swallow up on this mountain
the covering that is cast over all peoples,
the veil that is spread over all nations.
8He will swallow up death forever;
and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces,
and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth,
for the LORD has spoken.

The word for veil here also refers to idols which are often called images. What is an image? It is something that is created in your mind. In fact what you think you see is not actually the case. Your brain has taken the information from the outside world and created an image that you perceive and think is reality. Now if you have color blindness for instance, you might see red as green while everyone else see's it as red. The objects actual form hasn't changed but you have a dysfunction of the nervous system that changes the image in your head of what the world actually is.

I "forgot" to mention the one instance of unveiling that is still common in our society. The unveiling of the bride. The bride of God is his people, represented by Israel who whored themselves. NOT literally, but as turning to false idols. These idols were the imaginations of men. NOT actual gods (at least by the time of the prophets), but the ideas of how the gods were. Their imagination had created these idols. A worker had an image in his head and then created this deity to satisfy the visual senses of the followers.

Before I had sex for the first time I had an idea of what it might be like. As a teenage boy it crossed my mind once or twice There were similarities between the real thing and my imagination, but to call it accurate or the same would be quite off. To take it a step further. To compare meaningless sex(whore) with ecstatic soul bonding love making(bride) would be quite a poor comparison.

Gen 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and other, and shall cleave (joined together, overtake, adhere) unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh.

Ephesians 5:31
And the two shall become one flesh. This is a great mystery concerning Christ and the church (bride).

Here is some of the passage of Ezekiel 16
17“You also took your beautiful jewels made of My gold and of My silver, which I had given you, and made for yourself male images that you might play the harlot with them. 18“Then you took your embroidered cloth and covered them, and offered My oil and My incense before them. 19“Also My bread which I gave you, fine flour, oil and honey with which I fed you, you would offer before them for a soothing aroma; so it happened,” declares the Lord GOD. 20“Moreover, you took your sons and daughters whom you had borne to Me and sacrificed them to idols to be devoured. Were your harlotries so small a matter? 21“You slaughtered My children and offered them up to idols by causing them to pass through the fire.

23“Then it came about after all your wickedness (‘Woe, woe to you!’ declares the Lord GOD), 24that you built yourself a shrine and made yourself a high place in every square. 25“You built yourself a high place at the top of every street and made your beauty abominable, and you spread your legs to every passer-by to multiply your harlotry. 26“You also played the harlot with the Egyptians, your lustful neighbors, and multiplied your harlotry to make Me angry.

This is speaking of religion. The people have taken the beautiful things God has given and turned them into harlotries. They are building shrines on every corner putting themselves out there for all to see. Showing their jewels and fine furnishings along with the sacraments.

This is of course modern religion. Look at the jeweled shrines on every corner. Think of the churches and cathedrals and mosques and temples. Our mind has taken the beautiful union of a man(God) and woman(humanity) and turned it into a spectacle, like a live sex show compared to ecstatic union. The entire of history of religion is summed up in this passage. Humanity with its imaginations is who Israel represents. Israel (the people) had two mothers Leah the false wife, and Rachel the true.


Gen 35
13Then God went up from him in the place where He had spoken with him. 14Jacob set up a pillar in the place where He had spoken with him, a pillar of stone, and he poured out a drink offering on it; he also poured oil on it. 15So Jacob named the place where God had spoken with him, Bethel.

16Then they journeyed from Bethel; and when there was still some distance to go to Ephrath, Rachel began to give birth and she suffered severe labor. 17When she was in severe labor the midwife said to her, “Do not fear, for now you have another son.” 18It came about as her soul was departing (for she died), that she named him Ben-oni; but his father called him Benjamin. 19So Rachel died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem).

Beth-El means the house of God. The Hebrew alphabet was pictoral. The first letter is Aleph(A) which represents the bull, and also means God or Father. Al=El the name of God. The second letter is Beth(B) which is a tent or tabernacle. Beth (tabernacle) - El (God). This is the linking between the bride being the people and the bride being the temple/tabernacle.

Rachel dies on the way to bethlehem, which happens to be the place Jesus was born. That place is named the house of God. The son that was born there is Benjamin with means son of my right hand. Jesus is said to sit at the right hand of the throne of power. Aka the son of my right hand. What does this have to do with anything?

1 Cor 3
16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
(You are the Beth-El. You are the tabernacle of God.)

Heb 10
19Therefore, brethren, since we have confidence to enter the holy place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,

Ok the holy place mentioned here refers to the Holy of Holies which is where you meet God face to face. The holy of holies was blocked from the rest of the temple by the veil. It was made of babylonian design. Babylon represents confusion, imaginations. On it were woven the cherubim, which are symbolic of our mind (a whole other thread). That veil was torn when Jesus died on the cross. But Hebrews 10 above says that veil is his flesh/mind (to be carnally minded is death). The veil that covers the meeting place of God is our flesh. Until we die we cannot come into full union with God, which is our divinisation, or theosis, the becoming one with God. This possibly happens for a group called the firstfuits who are born out of death (of the carnal mind) before they actually die.

a reply to: ntech

I am the vine you are the branches

Just as Christ is so are you in the world

You are the light of the world, a city on a hill

Out of your belly will flow living water

We all with unveiled faces are reflecting the glory of the Lord are being transformed(transfigured) into the same image.

a reply to: zardust

Thank you for putting all that time and effort into such detailed response!!

I just am still wondering who you think is the 'manchild' that you mentioned as being "born of the matrix" in your first post?

a reply to: 2012newstart

The symbolic birth of the "child", "a male" (quoting Revelation 12:5) has already happened (this happened after John wrote Revelation, you were right about that). You missed that event because of the forest and the trees I mentioned to you earlier when you were asking questions about the same topic in the other forum: God's Kingdom with Jesus as appointed King (the birth of God's Kingdom coincides with Jesus being appointed as King and beginning his rule*, that's one of the reasons why people get the child confused with Jesus because he is involved which explains the similar symbolic language found in Psalms 2:9 and Psalms 110:2. This isn''t talking about the birth of Jesus as a human being though; and Mary isn't involved at all, the woman is also symbolic, as is the mention of "the wilderness").

*: The videos I shared with you in that thread have the details how you can tell when this happened. It uses Revelation 12:7-12 (an event that happens right after it) as one of the major clues, especially the lines that say "So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him." (verse 9) and "Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.” (verse 12)

a reply to: lostgirl

I forgot to add a bit, hopefully this will stay brief

I posted Galatians 4:19 in one of my earlier posts to set the stage. I wanted to post the entirety of Galatians 5, but please read the entirety with what we've discussed so far in mind. Below I've Bolded the only three instances of the word G6505 Labor, or Travail in Labor.

Galatians 4
19My children, with whom I am again in labor(G6505) until Christ is formed in you (as a child forming in the womb)— 20but I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

21Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman.(or the whore and the bride) 23But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24This is allegorically speaking (here is the key to much of symbolic understanding, it is Jacob and Esau, Cain and Able, Sarah and Hagar, Rachel and Leah, Adam and Christ, Flesh and Spirit, Death and Life, Tree of knowledge of good and Evil and Tree of LIfe), for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. (the new jerusalem in Revelation, which The Light dwells in, and there is no need of a sun, aka the bride, aka US)

27For it is written,
“REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR (this refers to Rachel, who was barren, compared to Leah who had many)
BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR G5605;
FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE
THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND.”

28And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also.

30But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”

31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

Here is the final use of G6505
Revelation 12:2
And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, G5605 and pained to be delivered.

Ok on to Romans 8, with much of the same
14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us (the phrase to us should be IN US, the word is eis which means into). 19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing (apocalypsis) of the sons of God . 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains (synodino, basically another version of G6505) of childbirth together until now . 23And not only this, but also we ourselves, having the first fruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our body.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ(the Son of God) = the Birth of the man child (Head)
The revealing of the sons of God = the Birth of the man child (body)

The head is what is birthed first. It is called the crown when it starts to come through.

Col 1
15He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. 16For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. 18He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, 20and through Him to reconcile all things(the word all things refers to all of creation) to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
21And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind

Ok here is the matrix. It is the mind of flesh. The natural mind. The carnal mind. (To be carnally minded is death, to be spiritually minded is life)

The rest of Colossians 1 is speaking of the mystery again
26that is, the mystery which has been hidden from the past ages and generations, but has now been manifested (revealed, unveiled) to His saints, 27to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

All of this that I've detailed here speaks of what goes on in every single conscious being ever created. All things are reconciled to him or subjected to him, like a wife is subjected to a husband (this is not dominance as so many assert)

1 Cor 15
20But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits(G536) of those who are asleep. 21For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ’s at His coming, 24then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy that will be abolished is death. 27For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. 28When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.(the same word used as a wife subjecting to husband, or church to christ, or body to head

Rev 14:4-- the 144,000
These are they which were not defiled with women(of the flesh, mind of the flesh); for they are virgins(bride/spirit). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits (G536) unto God and to the Lamb.

Continued

a reply to: lostgirl

The Matrix is our Mind of Flesh, we entered into it when our parents ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil (the tree of the flesh). The word matrix is latin for womb or mother. It now has the meaning
: something (such as a situation or a set of conditions) in which something else develops or forms
: something shaped like a pattern of lines and spaces (a woven pattern)
: a container that can be filled with a material (such as very hot metal) to give the material a new shape


Gen 3
6When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, (delights to the senses and to gratify the ego) she took from its fruit and ate; and she gave also to her husband with her, and he ate. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made themselves loin coverings.

21The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife, and clothed them. (they were naked in the garden as in not having a body of flesh, they were given skin/flesh to cover their spiritual nature so they could live in the physical world)

22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”— 23therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. 24So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.

Ok coming back to the cherubim, which we saw on the Veil that covers the Holy of Holies. Here they are guarding the way to the tree of life. Without going into too much detail as I've already written a book, the Temple/tabernacle (which is Beth or woman as in Beth-El) is a model or form or pattern of the Earth. It is also the pattern for the Human (don't you know you are the temple of God. In three days I will tear down this temple and rebuild it). It has a pattern of 3. The Outer court, Inner court, and Holy of Holies. I'm going to list them out with their corresponding types.

Outer Court=earth=body
Inner court=land of eden=soul
(Veil/cherubim)
Holy of Holies=the garden of eden=spirit

The cherubim stand between the inner court and Holy of Holies on the veil, and between the garden of eden and the land of eden with the flaming sword.

The veil is the key. It is the woven covering. The vail covering all peoples. The vail of death. This is the matrix. Our world is the matrix. Our bodies of flesh are our representations in the matrix. But it is not as it seems.

2 Cor
17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 18But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed (G3339 this word is transfigured, as in Jesus being transfigured or divinized) into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

What image? The image of God the firstborn over all creation.

1 Cor 2
14But a natural man(mind of flesh/adam/esau/hagar) does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. 16For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, THAT HE WILL INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ. (the head of the body)
(a little context again verse 7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery)

The birthing of the sons of God is the birthing of the mind of Christ in us. It is when we are transfigured/transformed.

Romans 12
2And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed G3339 by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
3For through the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith. 4For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, 5so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

The word transformed is metamorphoo G3339 like metamorphosis. what is the example of metamorphosis we normally use? The caterpillar and the butterfly. The caterpillar goes into a woven covering called a cocoon, which is like its tomb. The caterpillars entire body is broken down (except the eyes) and remade into the butterfly. When the butterfly is ready it is born again out of the tomb.

That is what happens to Jesus, the head. He dies and resurrects into the glorified body. Before he actually dies, though we see him be transformed into the glorious body up on the mountain. The word metamorphoo is used 4 times in the bible. Twice to describe the transfiguration (And was transfigured G3339 before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.) And the two passages above Romans 12:2, and 2 Corinthians 3:18

All of these are taking place in you, me and every living being. We are all headed in one direction and that is glorification. Until God is All in All. The matrix is our physical world. Our bodies of flesh. Our temples with the veil. The garments of skin.

The man child is the true us. The unveiled us. The newborn us. The divine us.

a reply to: zardust

Thank you for explaining all of that, I really appreciate it!

I understand what you mean now

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: 2012newstart

No antichrist is mentioned in Revelation.

Revelation is not a book about the future, it's not prophetic at all.

It reveals what was happening then and has no relation to the world of today.

Rome is the new Babylon, Israel is doomed by the 3 beasts, Nero, Paul and militant Messianic Jews who want to be the rulers of the world through a warrior Messiah.

The woman is the Virgin Mary and the child is Jesus.

The dragon represents evil, temptation and ''her children" are the disciples.

Meaning all are capable of the virgin birth i.e. being born again.

It reveals the true meaning of virgin birth.

It's called Revelation not "Prophecy", everything in it is past events or current events and doesn't predict anything.

a reply to: zardust

Ever wonder how though the tree of Knowledge was placed outside of Eden Eve managed to partake of its fruit?

Only the tree of life was in "the midst of the garden."

"You may freely eat of EVERY tree of the garden; but of the tree knowledge of good and evil you may not eat."

Naturally if it was in the garden it could be eaten and since it can't be it could not have even been in the garden.

Interesting right?

a reply to: Malocchio

I think it was in the midst of the garden. In fact the two trees may have been one.

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

So there are two trees in the midst of the garden. But working backwards from the other types and symbols, some of which I've written about, leads me to believe that they are actually one tree.

My reasoning comes from the cherubim in the Holy of Holies. The cherubim were the seat or chariot of God. This was seen in the prophets when they declare YHWH riding on the cherubim. We also see it when the the pillar of smoke appears in the midst of the cherubim. The Pillar occupies the same position as the cherubim, they are one and the same.

So to me, the tree of knowledge of good and evil represents the flesh which I've spent a fair amount of time outlining why I think that. When they ate of it they had to leave their estate in the garden and come to the fleshly earth. The tree of Life represents the spirit. Which in Revelation Jesus is called the Tree of Life, so we don't have to go far. The word/tree of life dwells in the midst of the cherubim or in the midst of the garden. Or the word became flesh and dwells in our midst.

a reply to: zardust

If you go by my quote it is impossible for the tree of Knowledge to be ''in the midst" or else it would have been permissible to eat.

The middle of the garden is actually not the garden, as the inclusion of midst seperates it from just the garden.

So we're talking about two locations, as though the midst of the garden is not the garden itself but something or somewhere else.

Clearly something is amiss, we have a combination of two stories, one created by Elohim and the other by Yahweh, one simultaneous the other Adam first.

I picked up on this from Philo Judaeus actually, but the 3:3 account is from the mouth of Eve and the earlier one of God so Eve must be considered a less authoritative source.

The only explanation is that the tree was no tree at all and the fruit no fruit, but the sexual union of the Serpent and Eve who seduces Adam leading them both to realize their shame.

Producing Cain, the Serpent seed and Adam the seed of man.

Going back to the first quote the Serpent hasn't been created yet. There should be no danger of transgression at this point.

Somehow after Adam the beasts were formed in chapter 2 contradicting the first account.

And then the tree is said to be in the center of the garden by Eve, though I have to insist God said every tree in the garden, so if the tree of Good and Evil was in the garden it'd be permissible to eat.

Unless God moved the tree before creating the Serpent (who is not Satan) specifically to set them up for failure I have to say that the tree was not even in the garden and thus not the cause of the downfall.

Something else entirely is being represented by the tree of Knowledge, that it can't be gotten to without the assistance of the Serpent or Wisdom.

Only by the Serpent was the tree attainable. The Serpent is Wisdom which is a requirement for attaining knowledge.

The Creator sought to keep man in a state of ignorance and the wise Serpent liberated them and didn't die "that very day" and the Creator was pissed, punished the Serpent and banished Adam and Eve from Paradise.

What a ****.

originally posted by: Malocchio
a reply to: zardust

Ever wonder how though the tree of Knowledge was placed outside of Eden Eve managed to partake of its fruit?

Only the tree of life was in "the midst of the garden."

"You may freely eat of EVERY tree of the garden; but of the tree knowledge of good and evil you may not eat."

Naturally if it was in the garden it could be eaten and since it can't be it could not have even been in the garden.

Interesting right?

Edit tree of knowledge in the midst, not life.

The expected Great Warning by devote catholics may come in many forms, not only what is publicly said about it, i.e. correction of consciences in a brief moment. It may include landing of ET angelic ships everywhere or at least at some important places and shrines, such as Jerusalem, Moscow, Rome. The Angelic ET who look pretty young according to all seers, will then appoint and seal the earthly 144,000 young men from Jewish descend, and the new era will start from that moment on. With the possibility of soon to come Chastisement (pls see other threads of mine) that new era may start with a brief intense period of gathering God's elect ones to secure locations, be it protected ET cities on earth, or directly into ships and transporting them to another planet. I don't know which scenario or combination would happen in real. Then the saved humanity will continue its path in a new way, leaded by God's principles and LOVE, by people selected by God whoa re not only not corrupt but also burn with God's love to fufilll His holy will.



Today's position of the Vatican is quite delicate. First, they know all of that and much more. They know facts that we don't know. They prefer silence for some reason. But doing so, they exclude themselves from the future arrangement of God's church. Future that may start in months. (see the threads of Fatima and the Year of Mercy). It is clear that f the new era promised in Fatima must start by the 100th anniversary (at latest 13 October 2017) then all sequence of Great Warning - Miracle- Chastisement must also accomplish before that. The nly possible date for the Miracle in 2017 is April 13 Holy Thursday. That is to say we have months, may be weeks, before the Great Warning. Whatever it might happen to be in real. Because no seer says 100% of what he/she heard/saw. The people were and are unprepared. God chose to reveal His secrets to chosen people whom He trusts. Pretty much as our human relations. You trust someone from t he bottom of your heart, you reveal him/her all secrets you know. Does it mean I reveal al I know in the forum? No it doesn't. I say as much as I think is needed to be published online at that time. Let the wise people do their homework, wise in their homes and in their offices as well. Time is ticking.

originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: 2012newstart

Once in 7,000 years - and it falls on the Feast of Trumpets - It is a real possibility.


And a great sign appeared in Heaven: a woman who was wearing the Sun, and the Moon was under her feet, and a crown of 12 stars on her head (Starts November 20th, 2016. Ends on September 23rd, 2017

The Revelation 12 Child Exposed! | The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Sign

Revelation 12 & The Male Child: Part 1 of 2

Revelation 12 & The Male Child: Part 2 of 2

I believe it will happen this year. Not only because of the alignment, that comes as a celestial sign that you well explain about.

The 144,000 are among us already. The rapture is Not in Revelation ch 4 since we got all 5 seals opened by now. We expect the 6th seal and the manifestation of the 144,000.

Whether the manchild will be physically born, or that person is already born and will be anopinted, OR the image odf the manchild is the cumulative image of the 144,000, I don't know.

The rapture of the manchild is our rapture as well. In practical terms, we would need spaceships and space cities to move outside earth. May be to another planet, or may be waiting on a spaceship until all end times unfold. Those are possibilities.

Perhaps, Gog and Magog coincides with the persecution of the Woman, other interpretations exist that is the war of Armageddon. Whatever it is, it will be the most destructive war.

Nibiru will follow soon after, in all likelihood. It is encoded in the Bible code as well with the year 5777 as skip and as actual letters.

Maby be it is a time to interpret more Revelation 12 as its celestial sign approaches or actually we are inside it ending this September 2017.

1/3 stars to be taken by the dragon...count the stars! 6,000 at the time of Revelation's author wrote it down, seen by naked eye. Today they are uncountable, 100 billion galaxies already recorded with many more discovered with every glimpse of the super telescopes. Each galaxy has a different number of stars but they only increase because each time a more modern telescope is used, it records more not less stars. Thus the Milky Way that is an average galaxy, foirst was estimated at 100 billion stars, then the number was doubled, and now it is raised to 400 billion stars. The number is likely to increase, because our twin galaxy Andromeda once estimated at 100 bln stars as Milky way, now numbers officially 1 trillion stars. So perhaps our Milky Way has a similar number of star systems, many of which have planets according to latest estimations of planetary hunting teams.

That is all to say, the war in heaven/sky/space described in Revelation 12 will include enormous number of star systems, quadrillions or more. 1/3 that follow Satan although fewer, make a formidable force. We know for certain of one ET race that is openly hostile to many others - the draconians. Are they the biblical dragon or just his supporters, I DK.

The modern interpretations of the Revelation Apocalypse and the Bible as a whole must account for the already discovered space, and also of the assumed to exist exoplanets habitable for life. We are talking of billions or more space nations. The war might be ongoing, although Revelation 12 clearly pinpointed its start to the rapture of Manchild. Who and when that will happen, IDK. If we are in the End times it should be soon. But how soon is soon, nobody knows.

Whatever the role of the manchild, and whatever the extend of the galactic war, the place of earth is very valuable for some reason, if all those star civilizations called stars in Revelation come to earth for their final battle.

Let we be found counted on the side of the raptured church, or at least of the protected church in the desert. Because some part of the followers of God will fight against the landing dragon/draconians (Rev 12:17). Who they are, are they the Orthodox Russia, IDK. Some stay to fight and to lose, because the dragon wins that battle, although he does not win the war.

I cannot help but think of the Viking prophecy, how the leading gods (ET IMO) Thor and Odin come at Ragnarok to fight with their mythical beast Fenrir and to be killed by him. Perhaps, those of the ET who are good but not angels, will fight the war and some of them will lose to draconians for reasons beyond our understanding.

Let we update our knowledge bank until we have free time to do so, although we lack facts in first place. We have enough theory. Because if tomorrow's rapture spaceships are driven by ET angels, and thus to fulfill Revelation 12 rapture and escape of the woman in the desert, many Christians will demonize them out of simple lack of knowledge and fanaticism. That was never clearly explained by the Catholic/Christian doctrine that the Angels may have transports, as Ezekiel speaks about.

a reply to: 2012newstart

Oh boy, this is really m#ssed up, Jesus being a Space Cadet, galactic Christianity would take maybe another 10,000 years or so before Revelation comes to pass, I'm not ridiculing you, could be true, could not be true, as is the whole Bible, as are all commentaries (including my own).

a reply to: infolurker

Very convincing ;-) That first video of your post