One day...all the "1's" and "0's" will Fail on Us!

The truly important stuff will live on....Vinyl rules!

Rock will live forever.

Amen to that, brother.
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There's no use in resisting technology. If it makes you feel safe, just keep a physical copy of the important stuff if you think that someday all virtual data will be erased or rendered inaccessable due to unknown circumstances, but embrace the change. There's way too much to be missed by not doing so.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

You realize that paper also degrades over time?

If you want to be pedantic about it, you'd have a better time recording information with a stone and chisel if you're worried about preservation.

Even that is fallible, though.

All materials degrade, such is the reality we live in. An electronic medium actually has a better chance at surviving for centuries compared to paper.

Not to mention the ecological impact it would have if we all simply switched back to using paper en masse.

And what is so important about cursive? That is nothing more than a cultural idiosyncrasy. Should we lament the fact that no one but artists continue to write in calligraphy? Maybe we should revert back to writing numbers as roman numerals?

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

But...why not teach them how to just put that iPhone down and "write" something down??????

For the same reason we don't teach anyone how to use a quill and parchment, or reed and papyrus, or stone and chisel.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Exactly. I think people forget about the massive fires that would destroy historical records and ancient libraries, literally erasing irreplaceable works. Or how war and plunder would also erase entire civilizations and their histories, literature, etc.

The library of Alexandria comes to mind. The history of that library burning down, and all of the knowledge we lost, is pretty depressing.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Atsbhct

Not nearly as fast, or nearly as easily.

With just a 9V battery I can erase your life history on electronic media...try that same thing with my paper and pencil!

C'mon...are you sticking up for this technology nonsense?

I can take an eraser that cost me 5 cents, I can take a cup of water, I could take a match and I can ruin your paper that has your history written in pencil on it.

Being a person that lives in the technological world I can make the case that the steps to make sure my history stays preserved are easier to now thanks to technology.

If I have a RAW or JPEG of a picture I took have the option of print media, cloud storage, direct storage, direct media and more often then not at multiple locations on multiple infrastructures. You have a roll of 35mm film or a piece of paper with cursive on it if that if it gets destroyed that is it.

Ill take the current approach to maintain history over the old way any day of the week.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

Write your works. Seal the in a ziplock. Open the ziplock just enough to allow a straw, and suck the air out of the the ziplock. That is my advice to you. Create a series of works that are preserved with a presumption of paving the way far into the future. Store these works in a violence-resistant case. Include a key for the future as to what the various alphabet mean, and a key as to what the various words and phrases mean.

Maybe someday, someone (or something!) will dig up your works and say, "this is the key to what we have been trying to figure out!"

a reply to: Dalan

And why is that exactly?

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: Dalan

And why is that exactly?

Not sure which of my posts you are referring to.

a reply to: Dalan

My apologies, it was a poorly worded question. I was responding to:

For the same reason we don't teach anyone how to use a quill and parchment, or reed and papyrus, or stone and chisel.

And the context of my question was, why is it so bad to teach people the traditional ways of old? I think a lot of kids today would benefit from learning the ways of their predecessors. It might give them a better appreciation for what they have now, and not take things for granted so much, or expect free stuff. We see classic examples of failures like this in society every day...people expecting "safe" places, people expecting something for nothing. It's an entitlement mentality, which if they only realized the value of what they have today based on what people "didn't" have in their history they might have a completely different attitude.

For the record, I too work in technology, very advanced technology (aviation electronic systems). Yet in my personal life we raise cattle on a ranch we bought and paid for. I get to see both ends of the spectrum on a daily basis. I was lamenting to a colleague the other day; I was in an airport waiting for a flight and I watched as a family of four carried on a conversation with each other without saying a word! They were sitting not 5 feet from each other and their mode of communication was exclusively texting. One would text, another would laugh, another would respond and some one would blurt out "no I didn't!". This went on for better than 10 minutes. Rather than talk to each other, they were separated by technology. I wondered what would happen to this family if cellular service just stopped all of a sudden. I think they would have spontaneously combusted.

No argument though that fire, or an eraser, could undo some of the things I've written, much the same as a magnet or electrical surge could undo some of that electronic media. But somewhere, deep inside maybe, there is an intrinsic value in the written word and the effort it took. Yes, there may be more permanent forms, but so far this form has withstood changes better than any other...even dating back to pictograms on cave walls....and writing on papyrus even...with a quill.

It pains me to go to a convenience store or merchant and see a generation completely incapable of counting back change without an electronic device. (tell me you haven't seen it!) To interview engineering graduates who cannot write a complete sentence or spell words without spell check. To see math classrooms where calculators are the norm. Teaching of basic fundamental skills is almost a lost art across the board. (Math and writing chief among these.) How many times, despite all the advanced technology available today, do we hear the excuse "I lost that email because my computer crashed" or some such. Maybe it's an excuse, but maybe it's not. No, to be truthful; the dog never really did eat my homework...but I'm not so sure that's the case today. Kids today are not smarter than kids of previous generations, I don't care what people say. The level of education has steadily declined because of social pressures. Basics are no longer important. And in the end, I truly do believe all those "1's" and "0's" will fail us someday. They already are, and for the reasons stated and many more.

Does that help clarify my question, and the context of my question, a little more clearly?

wow I can't believe they don't teach as much handwriting anymore. That's so bizzare. Mind you I haven't done much of it myself in a long time. I can still do it though easy. I do if it I ever write a personal letter to someone, which is very seldom. It just looks better.

But I don't tend to agree. See not much has changed. And not much will change. See we're told all this amazing stuff has come and will come. But the sad truth is that it will take far far far longer than anyone ever dreammed. Why? Because tptb can't allow people to get too high tech. Plain and simple. It "bad enough" as is. As the more tech we have the more we're able to use it to secure our freedom. Thats' a dangerous thing.

Like a guy in a dorm room and make a site and become an overnight billionaire. That's a scary thought I'm sure for the hierarchial structure of society. It could topple the piramid if too many people start living too independantly and or having too many choices at their disposal. No one would want to work hard for living anymore. So you keep the tech at the very lowest level possible for as long as you can.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Yes, teaching kids past ways of doing things is not a bad idea in terms of life lessons. I was thinking of the issue merely practically.

And, yes, I can see the intrinsic value in written systems--the artistic aspect of the application which is lost with computers.

I'm not sure if I would say that technology is the cause, or even a cause, of the current attitude of many millennials, though. I think that would be a mixture of improper guidance from the adults in their lives, emotional immaturity, and poor education.

I was born in 1985, I am 30 years old now. I've noticed that some of the people younger than myself were raised completely different. Many of them were absolutely coddled, and have a hard time accepting the fact that people will actually disagree with them.

What I've learned from the parents that I've watched:

1. Make your children work for things, don't just give them things
2. Your children are not special "just because"
3. If your child does wrong, don't blindly defend them--everyone has shortcomings, no one is perfect
4. Following number 3: do not protect your children from their own folly. That is not to say, if they do something dangerous, don't protect them. I mean here that, if they do something to get into trouble, make them face up to the consequences. Too many parents will take on financial burdens caused by their troublemaking kids.
5. Teach your children logic, teach your children logic, teach your children logic.

I have three daughters, and those are the five rules that I created to follow as a parent. To me, those 5 things are absolutely important based off of how I was raised, and how I've seen other people raised and the results.

Technology is only a tool, no matter what form said tool takes. It is our interactions with one another, and at some point our own choices, that shape our behavior as human beings.

As far as technology and education, computers themselves are wonderful tools for educating/schooling. I think the poorly educated youth is more a result of the intrinsic failures of the state to properly allocate resources. Public schooling in the US is really bad.