You have been lied to : Christians , Muslims , Jews - all worship the same God

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Do you understand that Jews say the exact same thing about Christianity? They don't believe that Jesus was the messiah, they don't believe there is a "new" covenant with God.

Jewish YHWH and Islam Allah are very similar and so are the laws of each texts, if you don't "see" it - you probably haven't read it.

If you have read both texts then i apologize for my assumption

a reply to: daaskapital

Again from my high horse, thanks for stating the blatantly obvious
Why do that?

I know, I will approach the statement from an atheistic position

You are all nutters, gods don't exist
Does that work for you?

Now if you want to butter bread, get butter, bread, dip a knife in butter and then spread it on bread, simple?

a reply to: fatkid

There is that holy trinity for you...

i agree, this is one of my favorite subjects, let`s compare em..

Sadly, every time i try to discuss about this with a believer, they cant, because they usually have only one perspective, when there is three..

a reply to: spirit_horse and stonerwilliam

One of you says moon God, the other volcano God.

This stuff doesn't matter, I'm not debating the origins of religion prior to, I'm just stating that the God of the bible is the same God of the Quran that is the topic.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: daaskapital

Again from my high horse, thanks for stating the blatantly obvious
Why do that?

I know, I will approach the statement from an atheistic position

You are all nutters, gods don't exist
Does that work for you?

Now if you want to butter bread, get butter, bread, dip a knife in butter and then spread it on bread, simple?

Jesus Christ, you have the worst attitude.

Why did i state the obvious? Because your opinion is not the only one and you act as if other religions must conform to yours in order to have a similar identity, history or principles. Christianity and Islam are different, but they share many prophets, stories and beliefs. To this extent, Islam worships the God of Abraham, just as Christians and Jews do - despite any differences such as the final text in Revelations, as you like to point to. Put simply, you all worship the same God, but you all have different interpretations of it.

I'm not an atheist, and i'm sure many in this thread aren't either. It's nice of you to go to extremes and paint others so broadly though. You need to grow up and come back down to earth, because you're flying too high right now.

a reply to: fatkid

So are you saying the Jews don't think Jesus is the messiah
So are you saying the Jews don't think Jesus is God

Do you know Christians think Jesus is both Messiah and God

Do you even know what you are saying?

a reply to: daaskapital

That's a fine opinion to hold daas
It seems you are on your high horse, deciding on what you understand is right and wrong based on your own understanding

Yes three religions from Abraham, one worships a trinity, the others don't
It's not an insignificant difference

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: boncho

You realize that Mongolia shares a border with Russia right?

Also it doesn't matter, because you entirely missed the essence of the point, someone asked me the difference between Islam and Judaism when it comes to the image of God, I was explaining there isn't a difference, both religions say the same basic things.

Sure, then explain the Hmong population that are almost identical...

Hmongs and Mongolians are not related. Hmongs are Southeast Asians closely genetically related to Southern Chinese, Vietnamese and Thais. The blonde hair trait is most likely a mutation unique to the Hmong population.

Then explain the outliers in other parts of the world, which shouldn't be there. Then explain all the peoples that don't line up with politics, history or religion (and all 3 prevent anyone from making a universally accepted answer). The most important are people that came from nowhere. The Vlach of Romania, the Merovingians from Merovech, etc & so on. There's a huge list.

Don't forget the ones they simply will not even admit exist, or that are locked up in dusty basements, private storage, etc. Chase the rabbit while I stuff the hat.

You presume its a simple question with a simple answer based on a false pretence. Man, has been here by himself and not affected by any outside sources (starting point), now, lets explain it away with whatever leaps necessary...

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: daaskapital

That's a fine opinion to hold daas
It seems you are on your high horse, deciding on what you understand is right and wrong based on your own understanding

Yes three religions from Abraham, one worships a trinity, the others don't
It's not an insignificant difference

I said you were on a high horse because of the way you are engaging with others, not because of your beliefs. I'm just pointing out the facts. Muslims believe in the same prophets as Christians and Jews, with some of the exceptions being Muhammad and Jesus. Muslims share many similar myths with Jews, such as Adam and Eve, and with Christians, such as the second coming of Jesus. To this extent, some might argue that Islam is closer to Christianity than what Judaism is, but that is another argument for another time.

Yes, Muslims and Jews don't believe in the trinity, but many Christians don't either. Certainly, many early Jewish Christians didn't, and there are still those today with Nontrinitarianism outlooks. What can we say from this? We can say that there are many interpretations surrounding the God of Abraham. Who knows which one is right, but it's safe to say that since they all share similar histories, stories and beliefs, that they also share the same God, despite some differences.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm not "saying" that Jews don't think Jesus is God or the messiah.

And like I said this debate isn't about Jesus being he son of God.

But you insist on using it as your single point of arguement,

I'm trying to make it as simple as possible for you.

Use your brain not your fear.

Sit and think about this for a moment, Christians worship the God of the Old Testament.

Jews also worship the God of their own religious text, you want to call it the "same" bible, but Jews don't include your book into their book.

Muslims also use the Old Testament and the Quran and the New Testament, just like Mormons have the Book of Mormon, and Christians have the New Testament.

They just believe (just like the Jews) that the bible isn't a completely true portion of the story.

a reply to: daaskapital

You know daas, it strikes me you are on your hi horse, you are being belligerent and bullish

Christians, no matter what people who think they know everything, don't worship the same deity as Muslims.
I am sory that you think they do and think that I have to agree with you.
Yes, the three abrahamic religions have the same roots, that doesn't mean they havnt been perverted and lost their way

Now you can stop telling me that they do, I don't believe that, you can, that's fine by me.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I'm glad that you admitted they have the same root.

That "root" is God.

It doesn't matter how much hate you feel in your heart towards each other, you can't change that root.

a reply to: boncho


originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: boncho

I don't need to explain the Hmong population, your ideas have nothing to do with the OP.

This isn't a debate on the origins of man, it isn't a debate on the son of God. It isn't a debate about feelings.

Just use the New Testament, Old Testament, and Quran - and it all becomes very simple.

This isn't a debate about which one is right, it isn't a debate about what humans have turned them into to.

All these religions are equally responsible for most atrocities once put into the hands of humans. I'm sure the indigenous people of North and South America felt the same about Christianity at a certain point, regardless of the size of the statue in Rio.

This is a post on the God of the three religions and if you read them (the texts) it is obvious they are all centered around the same God

double post

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: daaskapital

You know daas, it strikes me you are on your hi horse, you are being belligerent and bullish

Do yourself a favour and look at your very first comment in this thread. Most of it is used to chastise the OP for his contributions. From the very first moment, you came in here with a condescending attitude. I'm only countering it.

Christians, no matter what people who think they know everything, don't worship the same deity as Muslims.
I am sory that you think they do and think that I have to agree with you.

I don't think you have to agree with me. You can believe what you want. The Catholic Church and its 1.1 billion adherents do agree with me though:

The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and subsisting in Himself; merciful and all- powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth,(5) who has spoken to men; they take pains to submit wholeheartedly to even His inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking itself, submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the moral life and worship God especially through prayer, almsgiving and fasting.

- Nostra Aetate

www.vatican.va...

Yes, the three abrahamic religions have the same roots, that doesn't mean they havnt been perverted and lost their way

If you want to get technical, both Christianity and Islam are perversions of Judaism. Christianity, after all, was originally a Jewish sect with Jewish practices, under Jesus and his brother James, before it was diluted after Paul's interference.

Now you can stop telling me that they do, I don't believe that, you can, that's fine by me.

We will agree to disagree. But know that according to the largest Christian denomination, this thread is correct to say that Muslims worship the same God as Christians and Jews.

a reply to: fatkid

Sometimes it's a bit difficult to pin down which of the gods the Abraham character dealt with is the god of Abraham.

Is it El-Shaddai, the one who changed his name from Abram to Abraham?
Is it El Elyon, possibly Ugaritic Grandfather of El?
Is it Adonai (Lords plural)?
Is it Yahweh?
or El Olam (Eternal God) Phoenician Eternal One?

The Eternal One (‘Olam) has made a covenant oath with us,
Asherah has made (a pact) with us.
And all the sons of El,
And the great council of all the Holy Ones.
With oaths of Heaven and Ancient Earth.

Cross (1973, p. 17)

And then there are the different ways he appears.
Sometimes a voice,
Sometimes a dream with visuals and dialog.
Sometimes physically walking, talking, and sitting down for a meal of veal.
Sometimes physically getting into a wresting match.

One time in a burning bush:
" I am Jehovah: and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as El Shaddai; but by my name Jehovah I was not known to them."
And Moses is like, "But in Genesis it says..."
And Jehovah says, "I said they didn't know me by ..."
And Moses says, "OK, OK, you're the boss of me so yeah, I guess they didn't know."

One time the LORD said, "You can't see my face, 'cuz no one can see my face and live." But then later they get into the habit of face to face meetings.

One time Moses and Aaron and Nadab and Abihu went up the mountain and saw the God of Israel and didn't die, just ate and drank.
------------------------------------
It would be difficult to equate all these gods of Abraham with the monotheist Yahweh who makes his debut appearance in Isaiah 43, or the monotheist deity Allah.

a reply to: daaskapital

Again daas, you are stating the blatantly obvious
I disagree
I am not a Catholic Christian so your point is mute in relation to my view, as is the op's statement
Now you get off your hi horse

There is a plethora of websites that explain the differences, familiarise yourself with them and then feel free to add a rebuttal

a reply to: pthena

The difficulty that Bible students have with this statement is that the name “Jehovah” (Hebrew Yahweh; translated LORD in most modern versions) appears approximately 160 times in the book of Genesis. Furthermore, “Jehovah” is used between Genesis chapters 12-50 (which deal mainly with the families of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) more than 100 times.

apologeticspress.org...

Admittedly, at first glance Exodus 6:3 may seem to contradict what the book of Genesis teaches about the patriarchs’ knowledge of Jehovah. However, when one realizes that the Hebrew idiom “to know” (and specifically “to know” a name) frequently means more than a mere awareness of a person, then the difficulty disappears. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob knew God as Creator and sovereign Ruler of the Universe. But it would not be until centuries later, when God fulfilled the promises made to these patriarchs by delivering the nation of Israel from Egyptian bondage, that the full import of the name Jehovah would become.

a reply to: Raggedyman

You are arguing the differences in the practice of the religion, not who the God of Abraham is.

And therefor the God of Christianity and Islam.

raggedy, you will love my next post about how the world is flat

originally posted by: fatkid
a reply to: Raggedyman

You are arguing the differences in the practice of the religion, not who the God of Abraham is.

And therefor the God of Christianity and Islam.

raggedy, you will love my next post about how the world is flat

How about you go educate yourself with one of the many websites hat explain the difference