Alleged British Computer Hacker To Be Deported To U.S.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Might be based on our legal system but your sentencing powers are somewhat totalitarian to say the least.

After Snowden done the business and spilled the beans on the NSA amung others i really don't see hackers being given light sentences regarding a breach of national security. Personally i think "they" will be up for making an example of the guy.

Fact is people just don't trust the American justice system these days down to the fact that you warehouse a significant proportion of the population in gaol, sometimes for crimes that are trivial by nature.

Here in the U.K if someone does break into my house and i use excessive force to defend myself and restrain the culprits i may very well find myself charged with serious assault, not something i agree with but none the less it has been known to happen.

a reply to: andy06shake

Which is a valid opinion however it doesnt change anything. if you dont want to spend years in prison then dont hack. Plain and simple.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Think how much your nation and my own for that matter spy on just about every aspect of its citizens daily lives? All under the guise of maintaining our security and way of life which is utter crap by the way. It's all about control and keeping the status quo in place.

Now tell me why this fellow snooping on the monster that is TPTB should warrant a hefty prison sentence for what probably amounts to curiosity?

a reply to: andy06shake

For the same reasons a person who kills another because they are curious would go to jail. Its not a defense to the law in question.

I find it difficult to believe a person who is capable of hacking into classified systems doesnt understand the concept of right and wrong. Even more so considering Asperger syndrome doesnt affect the parts of the brain where right and wrong are processed. People with Asperger syndrome actually have issues perceiving grey areas. Because of that right and wrong stand out.

Like i said sentencing is dependent on a lot of factors.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Mate you keep using these assault and murder analogies, they simply don't make any sense down to the fact the fellow in question did not kill or hurt anyone.

He did however access through questionable means a system or systems that are supposed to be secure most lightly down to curiosity. Its not like he sold secrets to the Russians or attempted to launch an ICBM on down town New York.

The fact that you find it questionable that the fellow doesn't understand the concept of right and wrong is nether here nor there. Asperger syndrome effects people in different ways.

Somehow i suspect if the fellow was extradited to the US any judge that presides over the matter would be of similar thinking regarding the Mans mental health issues.

Lets face it the US will want to through the book at him setting a precedent in an attempt to deter future foreign hackers from similar intrusions into an obviously flawed system.

a reply to: andy06shake

Classified material can lead t a persons death if not handled / secured correctly. Guarantee me that if this hacker obtained info he would not expose it. How about someone hacking his system.

The gun analogy was to demonstrate the flaw, imo, in your argument that because no one got hurt then no one should be held accountable. it was to demonstrate that when you start drawing arbitrary lines based on opinion instead of law you can get an imbalance in the legal system.

Where does one draw the line?

Just because this kid is smart enough to hack into classified systems doesnt mean he is smart enough to prevent his own system from being hacked. I dont think people adequately understand the full ramifications of these types of actions.

As for throwing the book at him -
In our legal system in order to charge an individual they must break elements of the laws in question. Punishment in this area is not mandatory, allowing a judge leeway in sentencing. Just because a prosecutor files charges does not mean that A - all charges will make it through the preliminary hearing and B - that a prosecutor would throw the book at him.

Your argument on this part reminds me of the failed argument Assange is making. You cant assume you know how this will go and you cant substitute opinion for the facts that arent in evidence yet.

originally posted by: Bigburgh
It was my understanding there were bits of information, the U.S. Gov was trying to keep quiet.

THAT'S no issue at all. There are trials regarding TS and SCI info leaks all the time. If that sort of information was even involved - it should not have been possible to access S or higher. Any machine he can get into from the civilian internet should have nothing more than confidential on. So it could be that they're just unhappy that he got into their systems at all, not that he got anything classified.

If I screwed the pooch badly enough, and po'd the right guys, what happens is, the DIA will get a court to issue a warrant which the FBI will serve. I will go away to someplace I can't have press conferences or whatever, and a special Federal court will assess what I did. If it's bad enough, say I blew some inner details of satellite assets, released a spreadsheet of the names of Agency guys in the field or put the code for some hydrocode calculator on an open source site, then they can provide me with a SCI rated lawyer, sit me down in front of a Federal judge who is cleared to hear this sort of case, sentence me to death from the bench without a jury, and then seal all the records. Sim, salabim. If it's slightly less drastic, they will empanel a jury from a group of SCI cleared candidates, which means your jury will likely be military or military contractors. And they probably won't be that sympathetic.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Classified material can lead t a persons death if not handled / secured correctly."

In this instance however nobody has died or even been injured. The only thing that happened is a supposedly impenetrable group of government networks has been breached by a hacker with Aspergers.

The old saying "don't hate the player, hate the game" springs to mind.

There is no failed argument only a difference of opinion.

Tell you what through, just like with Gary McKinnon whats the bet the any extradition ultimate fails?

We don't hand over youngsters with mental health problems to the grinder of the supposed American justice system. Quite frankly this is not some third world nation, America has nothing to intimidate us with. And should TPTB in my own nation actually allow such a travesty the public outcry would be deafening.

Now if you are looking to extradite some ISIS supporting fundamentalist types, i'm sure we will happily oblige.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xcathdra

Mate you keep using these assault and murder analogies, they simply don't make any sense down to the fact the fellow in question did not kill or hurt anyone.

Depending on the info (if there was any - I don't know if they're charging him for the hack or the info accessed), then releasing the info absolutely CAN kill or hurt someone.

While I shake my head over some of the weird, arcane, stupid things that the security crowd does at times, like classify EVERYTHING that's associated with an SCI project, like specialty screwdrivers, there is a set of very sensitive information that can in fact either get someone killed right freaking now (names of people involved in missions or who are currently in the field), or can later. If you're depending on a system that you happily think is secret, and your enemy, whoever it might be, has had the plans for it and developed counters or who has actually suborned the system without your knowledge, then you will lose countless lives.

And THAT'S why there is a core set of types of info that are deemed by the US gubmint to be sensitive enough that you can be executed for having and revealing when you ought not. And basically those are:

1) blowing the name of an agent/operator who is then killed
2) exposing a 'born secret', typically inner details of nuke design. If I told you the core secret of nuclear shaped charges, for example
3) blowing military spacecraft or satellite info (this has to be pretty egregious...like if I posted a list of which dark satellites have nuclear weapons onboard, if any did)
4) blowing early warning systems (that one's fairly undefined)
5) blowing details of defense or retaliation against large scale attack
6) exposing war plans
7) blowing crypto design (if I had a non-encrypted design block for Saville and posted it, for example)
8) or the catchall "or any other major weapons system or major element of defense strategy." which covers anything they'd like

As defined here!

You get read this one if you are read onto an SCI project, but not for TS, at least not that I've ever seen.

Now, the guy not being a citizen, I'm sure there's some obscure treaty law that is being invoked instead of a 794 violation. But these are the categories of things that really really piss them right off to the point of doing something permanent to you.

a reply to: Bedlam

He's just a wayward young man with mental health problems and probobly not much of a life. Chances are what he done was in no way malicious and was perpetrated out of curiosity.

None of which of will save him from a long gaol sentence should he actually be extradited to the U.S simply down to current climate regarding information breaches and whistle blowers worldwide.

I don't think he should be extradited and have his life permanently ruined to satisfy the same people that should have basically built a more secure system. Look at it this way, far better that this guy managed to breach there security rather than some foreign agent with malicious intent.

End of the day the guy has shown the short comings of the security measures these agency's networks employ.

a reply to: andy06shake

I agree that whoever was in charge of the system that was breached *coffDISAcoff* should be getting some special love also if it can be shown they were negligent.

a reply to: andy06shake

What im getting from the tone of your posts is you have certain issues with the US government and view the incident and the hacker as justified based on your view of the US government.

Am I correct or am I misreading your latest posts?

Asperger syndrome does not prevent a person from understanding right and wrong. We have extradition treaties with the UK and the EU. Yes you have turned over citizens to be prosecuted in the US and the US has turned over our citizens to be prosecuted in the UK. No one is treating the UK as a 3rd world country. We are treating the UK with respect to the treaties the UK / US government signed. if you dont want to be charged and potentially spend time in a US jail dont hack into classified systems.

plain and simple.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Classified material can lead t a persons death if not handled / secured correctly.

Unless you are a Clinton and then that qualifies you to run for the presidency

a reply to: Xcathdra

I have certain issues with any government that wishes to punish a person with mental health problems by way of imprisoning the fellow for decades for what essentially amounts to him highlighting the serious security flaws in a group of systems designed to protect a nation and destroy other country's.

Fact is Xcathdra most people outside the U.S have issues with various aspects of the country right now, if you require a reason for such look no further than the current political candidates up for the position of POTUS. Never mind the rest of the preposterous wars and police actions perpitrated by the last few previous administrations of the once glorious USA.

Tell you whats plain and simple Xcathdra, this attempt to extradite the fellow will fail treaties or not.

a reply to: andy06shake

I guess we shall see.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Guess so.

Keep in mind Theresa May who was home secretary at the time(PM now) withdrew her extradition order to the United States regarding Gary McKinnon who apparently perpetrating the biggest military computer hack of all time.

This guy seems to be of a similar caliber, and also experiences mental heal issues. Chances are he was probobly after the very same or similar secrets as Mr McKinnon.

So lets see what happens next.

originally posted by: andy06shake
This guy seems to be of a similar caliber,

You mean hiding behind an illness that doesnt affect right or wrong in the brain in order to fool the authorities to get out of criminal charges. He should work for Julian Assange in the embassy and brainstorm how to get out of the rape charges in Sweden.

a reply to: Xcathdra

The authorities are already fools. Criminal charges, what do you mean like the ones that should be being levied against Trump and Clinton? Him for the racist bull#e remarks and her for a multitude of god knows what!

Then there is George Bush and his father, both of which are war criminals and should have been brought to justice long ago.

Truth be told i think your authorities are after the wrong people and i don't see them brainstorming there way out of that because it would require a brain. Something they seem to be sadly lacking hence there hostility to a young lad with mental health issues who managed to breach there billion dollar systems with nothing more than a couple of hundred quid PC.

Its like the authorities have spat there dummy out because they got beaten by a youngster. They would love nothing more than to see that guy languish in gaol for the next few decades at the expense of the American tax payer.

Lets face it could the monies that will be wasted on prosecuting the guy and housing him not be better spent on contributing to a new U.S. Missile Defense Agency computer system that actually does what it say on the tin?

Just a thought.

a reply to: andy06shake

riiiigghht....

You mean hiding behind an illness that doesnt affect right or wrong in the brain in order to fool the authorities to get out of criminal charges.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Its a bad day when the real criminals aka current political establishment and accompanying alphabet agency's levy criminal charges against curious youngsters with mental health issues who essentially handed them their arse on a plate.

Talk about the game being rigged???