Alleged British Computer Hacker To Be Deported To U.S.

a reply to: alldaylong

He did hack but he is also a Genunine Autism sufferer.
Extraditing Hactivist like this guy, a citizen of an ally as well so an easy target seem's to be a bit of a habit for whomever is trying to get career brownies over in the US while they can not extradite the Chinese state spy's whom are actually doing real harm to there security.

So what give's.

This lad was part of an Anonymous group and another of this group whom they also tracked down took his own life because of them, they are not protecting the US they are terrorizing the little guy in there friend's country because of there own incompetence in securing there computer network's.

IF this lad does go to the US there will be a public outcry of anger in the UK because his extradition is unjust, let the idiot behind this extradition request go and do some real work and hunt down the SPY's from China, Russia and Korea and stop picking on there neighbour's kid's.

It is in short what I call hitting below the belt to pursue an autistic pastors son for hacking into a semi open network when there have probably already been hundred's of spy's doing the same thing for far more dangerous purposes for years.

To be honest the guy whom put this extradition in, the guy whom ok'd it and the guy whom decided it was a good idea to spend all those US dollers pressing it should all be fired and replaced with competant investigator's whom would then seek out the real spy's and secure the US network's rather than leaving them like honey trap's to catch stupid kid's.

Sickening.

They are like keystone cop's chasing the wrong person while the thieves make off with the content's of the bank vault, so bad it make's you wonder if they are actually double agent's working for the US enemy's.

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: crazyewok

Can the UK extradite a US hacker for violating a "D" notice article?.

They can.

But i dont know why the US cant try and sentence them themselves as its there own citizens in there own country.

Hacking is illegal in both countries.

Seems silly to extradite when we cam both try and sentence them ourselves.

The laws and penalties in both countries are different. Secondly I dont think the UK could prosecute at the max level since the "injured party" is the US government and not the UK government.

a reply to: crazyewok

See my post above.

Should he be extradited (Mkinnion's extradition was denied by the UK government) and found guilty he can transfer his sentence to the UK and serve out his time in a UK facility.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Still seems to me it would save a lot of effort if both our countrys just agreed to try and sentence the hackers within our own countrys.

Saves time, effort and money.

Plus minimises the risk of a extradition treaty being denied and the hacker walking free.

Take Gary McKinnon. He should of been punished.

If the Uk had agreed to try and sentence him he would of got something. Might not have been as long a sentence as in the USA, but it would still have been a hefty sentence.
Far better than getting off due to getting out of the extradition treaty.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Having Autism is not a excuse for law breaking.

Most are fully aware of whats illegal.

And hacking is illegal.

Doesnt matter if it has the right motivesl its illegal.


Killing the Bush family would have the right motives but it would still be murder which is wrong and illegal and hence anyone that does it should be punished as murder is always wrong.

Sometimes the laws that protect good people protect the bad as well.

a reply to: crazyewok

What your saying make sense however from a legal point of view its a lot more complicated.

In the UK he violated UK law for just hacking.
In the US he violated hacking laws an possibly national security laws.

Like in the US, A Crown Prosecutor who is prosecuting an offense against the government derives its standing from representing that government. Since, as far as I know, there is no agreement between the US and UK on shared sovereignty claims, a Crown Prosecutor could no more prosecute a person for treason against the US government than a US prosecutor could prosecute a person for Treason against the Crown.

A British prosecutor could not prosecute him for violating US espionage laws.

originally posted by: jonsoup
Do posters on ATS even hear themselves anymore?

This is a very serious breach in trust in "the cloud" and the governments (in)ability to keep up with the ever increasing standard of technology. It simply isn't funded to do so.

These hacks of the of our government and our political parties have far more sinister implications than you all seem to realize. There are any number of ways this could fly wildly out of control and go beyond the point of fixing.

Not funded (not allotting the funds in that department) doesn't mean they don't have the funds. It is after all the most funded government in the world and in world history.

originally posted by: Alien Abduct
Not funded (not allotting the funds in that department) doesn't mean they don't have the funds. It is after all the most funded government in the world and in world history.

As Seth Meyers put it the most powerful / poorest country in the world.

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: intrptr

He is not subject to US law as he is not a US citizen.

I assume he has not visited the US therefore, they have no jurisdiction.

If they are going to do this stuff, then why not send women over to say, Saudi Arabia because the women are driving in cars which is illegal in that part of the world.

This is just over-reach as usual.

P

The argument is that, because the computers accessed were physically located in the US, that is where the crime actually occurred.

a reply to: EvillerBob

Not to mention the US and UK, in addition to their own laws, are signatories to international agreements with regards to hacking.

So yes, the US has jurisdiction.

a reply to: alldaylong

Apparently the US say he is using his mental health issues as an excuse to escape justice???

If the guy has Aspergers then its an obvious concern regarding sending him abroad to face an alien justice system.

Lets face it if "The U.S. Missile Defense Agency" don't want to be hacked then they should build a more secure system of networks. These are the same people who until recently still used 5 and 1/4 inch disks to upload codes and coordinates to the systems in there ICBM silos prior to launch!

This is not the U.S this is Great Britain, im sure this deportation issue will be blocked or vetoed by a higher power soon enough.

a reply to: andy06shake

and if a person does not want to e shot and killed they shouldn't take a walk outside at night...

OR...........

A person can comply with the law instead of breaking it by shooting and killing a person who is out for a walk.

by all means lets reward the people breaking the law.

As for blocking the extradition thats entirely the purview of the UK government.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Im not suggesting rewarding him but extradition to another nation where he may be sentenced to 25 years in a federal penitentiary seems a bit harsh.

Can we not just give him 240 hours community service, and ban him from using a PC for a few years?

Its not like he screwed a house, raped or murdered anyone. If anything the guy has shown the short comings of any security "The U.S. Missile Defense Agency" had in place at the time, also keeping in mind the guy has mental health issues where prison might not be the best option, for him anyway.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Xcathdra

Im not suggesting rewarding him but extradition to another nation where he may be sentenced to 25 years in a federal penitentiary seems a bit harsh.

Can we not just give him 240 hours community service, and ban him from using a PC for a few years?

Why didnt he check the laws and the punishment attached before he broke them?

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Why didnt he check the laws and the punishment attached before he broke them?"

Possibly because he has Asperger's and did not consider or relies the full implications of his actions?

Look at it this way should this extradition process be blocked which i fully expect it will be we will save you a hell of a lot in monies by having to warehouse the poor fellow for the next few decades. Might even prevent the poor wee soul from being bummed on a daily basis.

a reply to: andy06shake

or by blocking extradition the UK government is creating the mindset its ok to hack the US government / other governments because the UK government wont hand you over.

So your saying he cant / didnt understand the consequences but understood the system he was hacking was a US government entity that has highly classified information. If he accidentally stumbled into the system it might be believable. The fact it was specifically targeted though... im not buying it.

a reply to: EvillerBob

The argument is that, because the computers accessed were physically located in the US, that is where the crime actually occurred.

But it is not a crime for him because he is not subject to US law.

A woman posts a pic of herself in a bikini. Oh dear, the server is in Saudi Arabia. Do we allow extradition.

And while you are at it, they (the US) hack anyone and everyone, in fact, the whole world but the world can not do it back to them because they have a good cry.

P

a reply to: Xcathdra

Lets just say i think the punishment should fit the crime, and in this instance if extradited the fellow in question may receive a rather harsher sentence than he deserves.

Im not saying he "cant / didnt understand the consequences" im just suggesting its a possibility or factor of concern regarding extradition.

If you cannot extradite Snowden from the Russians why expect the UK to allow you to have this poor wee fellow?

a reply to: crazyewok

Even so if we do ditch the human right's charter which our nation actually helped establish in the first place then we leave our own people exposed with no protection, even a uk bill of right's would not solve that issue as any bill held by our nation can and would be circumvented far more freely than the human right's act is.

I do believe that this young man does have some radical view point's and I actually disagree with him as I still have a very tender spot in my heart for the US though it is jaded and I do not in any way like the modern CORPORATE US foreign policy but then hey neither do most American's so they can not be held to blame for the action's of a few elite S3$% bag's can they and just like here they are starting too suspect that there election's smell a little funny and that there may be some measure of rigging going on so what could they do.

I still stand by the point though that this young man should not be Extradited though I am open to the idea of the UK prosecuting him on behalf of the US and even banning him from Internet access for a time (though for an autistic person whom probably has severe socialization problems and poor interpersonal skill's that could be far more severe than it would be for one of us).

My reservation's factor mainly around the US very poor human right's record, there severely bad treatment of inmate's and there ridiculously long sentences compared to a similar crime here in the UK, as I also point out very correctly I might add they are chasing a kid from an allied nation while they are doing little or nothing about the real threat's to there security and those being Paid and Professional state hackers from nation's or hired by nation's opposed to there very existance such as NK, Iran, China (not so much opposed they just want to topple the US and it's allies so that they become number one honcho) and several other state's including Russia.
They can of course not get there hand's on those guy's but they can make an example of a defenceless member of the public.

I will pull you up on another point, how many Autistic children have you met or worked with, do you know anything about the range of there behavioral problem's, there social integration problem's or how they see the world differently, there need to often compartmentalize matter's and order them according to there very disabled and different view of the world.
I suspect you have not met as many as me so believe me what is right and wrong for you and me can be completely different for them and more severe cases can not be left without a carer, some would simply walk into a crowded road and ignore the oncoming traffic simply because they have an autism related compulsive behavior.

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: EvillerBob

The argument is that, because the computers accessed were physically located in the US, that is where the crime actually occurred.

But it is not a crime for him because he is not subject to US law.

Repeating a fallacy doesn't make it true.

He is subject to US law the same as a Us citizen would be subject to UK law if he hacked the MoD from his home in Tippecanoe Indiana.

UK law says so.
US law says so.
UN agreements the US / UK are signatories to say so.

As I pointed out in another post an extradition requirement is do both countries have laws on the books (punishment not relevant). While it might be illegal in Saudi Arabia its not in the UK so the extradition would not be granted.