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Did Paul Invent Christianity?

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posted on Nov, 20 2016 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Maybe you should go to the fundamental section for your fundamental belief is showing in your man made doctrine in denying God's words as true and pure every one of them

Psalms 119:140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.




posted on Nov, 20 2016 @ 11:05 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

The word of God is the basis upon which a man can stand. If the word of God is not true, pure, whole, inspired of God and without error then all you have to stand on is shifting sands of yours and men interpretations as to what God's words are and are not, thereby making yourself god in God's place to make his words what you want it to be, mean and say and not what he has preserved it to be, mean and say.



posted on Nov, 20 2016 @ 01:39 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






But you and those like you are not simple, but see yourself as the standard by which to judge God as incapable of preserving his words to every generation as promised in Ps 12:6, 7, and judge his inspired words to Paul as wickedness and foolishness. But as God by inspiration has preserved He says,
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


God didn't say the above from Corinthians...Paul did.
When did Jesus ever make His message all about the cross?? He said that sinful men (the priests) were going to kill Him.
That's about it.
The REASON they killed him was because He spoke the TRUTH and came to bear witness to the TRUTH.

John 18:37New King James Version (NKJV)

37 Pilate therefore said to Him, “Are You a king then?”

Jesus answered, “You say rightly that I am a king. For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears MY voice.” John 18:37

HIS VOICE...HIS VOICE....HIS VOICE.....HIS VOICE THAT TOLD THE TRUTH OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN THAT HAD COME.
HIS VOICE THAT SHOWED THE TRUE GOD, BECAUSE THE TRUE GOD WAS SPEAKING DIRECTLY THROUGH HIM.

The teachings of Jesus that you have set aside for the wolf that came in his OWN NAME and hijacked the message and made it his own. And because some ungodly men liked Paul's gospel over Jesus', they included those letters of a ranting, egotistical, puffed up, misogynistic, lying, madman into the Bible...and called it "Canon", "Holy", "inerrant", and basically decided just WHAT YOU were supposed to believe.

HOWEVER, there are many, MANY, people throughout history who have outed Paul.....and these are people who DO believe in Jesus and God.
So are all those people deceived as well, Chester? You can start with one of our founding fathers...Thomas Jefferson.

Here are just a few..............

Notable Quotes

The following are quotes from other sources on issues concerning Judaism, Christianity, and the false apostle Paul.


From the book, "The Dead Sea Scrolls Deception"

by Michael Bajgent and Richard Leigh (Corgi Books, London, 1991)

"... Paul is in effect the first Christian heretic, and his teachings, which become the foundation of later Christianity, are a flagrant deviation from the 'Original' or 'pure' form extolled by the leadership. Whether James, the 'Lord's brother,' was literally Jesus' blood kin or not (and everything suggests he was), it is clear that he knew Jesus...personally. So did most of the other members of the community or 'early Church,' in Jerusalem, including of course, Peter. When they spoke, they did so with first hand authority. Paul had never had such personal acquaintance with the figure he'd begun to regard as his 'Savior.' He had only his quasi-mystical experience in the desert and the sound of a disembodied voice. For him to arrogate authority to himself on this basis is, to say the least, presumptuous. It also leads him to distort Jesus' teachings beyond recognition, to formulate, in fact, his own highly individual and idiosyncratic theology, and then to legitimize it by spuriously ascribing it to Jesus."

"As things transpired, however, the mainstream of the new movement gradually coalesced, during the next three centuries, around Paul and his teachings. Thus, to the undoubted posthumous horror of James and his associates, an entirely new religion was indeed born, a religion that came to have less and less to do with its supposed founder."


Thomas Jefferson

"Paul was the great Coryphaeus, and first corrupter of the doctrines of Jesus."

From a letter to W. Short published in The Great Thoughts by George Sildes (Ballantine Books, New York, 1985, p.208).


Albert Schweitzer

"Where possible he (Paul) avoids quoting the teaching of Jesus, in fact even mentioning it. If we had to rely on Paul, we should not know that Jesus taught in parables, had delivered the sermon on the mount, and had taught His disciples the 'Our Father.' Even where they are specially relevant, Paul passes over the words of the Lord."

(The Mysticism of Paul the Apostle, p. 171)


Jeremy Bentham
The renowned English philosopher , in his Not Paul But Jesus, declared:



"It rests with every professor of the religion of Jesus to settle within himself to which of the two religions, that of Jesus or that of Paul, he will adhere."




Ferdinand Christian Baur
The eminent theologian, in his Church History of the First Three Centuries, wrote:



"What kind of authority can there be for an 'apostle' who, unlike the other apostles, had never been prepared for the apostolic office in Jesus' own school but had only later dared to claim the apostolic office on the basis on his own authority? The only question comes to be how the apostle Paul appears in his Epistles to be so indifferent to the historical facts of the life of Jesus....He bears himself but little like a disciple who has received the doctrines and the principles which he preaches from the Master whose name he bears."



posted on Nov, 20 2016 @ 01:55 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

The word of God is the basis upon which a man can stand. If the word of God is not true, pure, whole, inspired of God and without error then all you have to stand on is shifting sands of yours and men interpretations as to what God's words are and are not, thereby making yourself god in God's place to make his words what you want it to be, mean and say and not what he has preserved it to be, mean and say.



Uh....It was JESUS who said,
“Everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.”

NOT PAUL'S WORDS.....JESUS' WORDS.



posted on Nov, 20 2016 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






Maybe you should go to the fundamental section for your fundamental belief is showing in your man made doctrine in denying God's words as true and pure every one of them


Paul was the instigator of his OWN "MAN MADE" doctrine. Even you admit that "Paul's gospel" is different from Jesus' teachings and the TRUE Good News ( Kingdom gospel).

edit on 20-11-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2016 @ 02:37 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

All the word of God, the Holy Bible are Jesus Words.

But then you don't believe John or Paul when it comes to that fact.

Again you become god to say what is true and what is not in the bible not believing God is able to keep his word to preserve his words to all generations FOREVER.
edit on 20-11-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 20 2016 @ 02:48 PM
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originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

All the word of God, the Holy Bible are Jesus Words.

But then you don't believe John or Paul when it comes to that fact.

Again you become god to say what is true and what is not in the bible not believing God is able to keep his word to preserve his words to all generations FOREVER.


So, did Thomas Jefferson "become God"? Is EVERY PERSON who see's Paul as the liar he was, "becoming God"?
That's a WHOLE lot of folks who love Jesus, "becoming God".



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 03:44 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn




Again you become god to say what is true and what is not in the bible not believing God is able to keep his word to preserve his words to all generations FOREVER


well that's not quite truthful - this only took me 2 minutes to find

www.chick.com...



Quick Comparison of Bible Versions It is often said that all Bible versions are basically the same, that their differences are just minor wording changes. Read the following comparison between the King James Version and the best-selling modern Bible translation, the New International Version, and then decide for yourself whether or not this is true. We have added bold text to assist the reader in recognizing changes.



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 07:50 AM
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I find it interesting that so called Church Father Justin Martyr never quotes from Paul, as the first apologist you would expect him to at least mention the existence of the epistles, not once does he quote from the Canonical New Testament but a "Memoirs of the apostles" which may or may not have been the so called Gospel of the Hebrews, it was certainly not the Gospels as we have them.

He writes against Marcion though, and brands him a heretic yet never mentions Paul. Christ yes, Paul never.

He doesn't mention any apostles by name and relies on the Septuagint for proofs of Christ in his apologies. But his pupil Tatian wrote the Diatessaron, which is said to be a unification of the 4 Gospels plus the ''Memoirs" of Justin. I believe the Diatessaron has been found and is available online.

I don't think Justin was a follower of Paul's.



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 08:03 AM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn

I am sorry if this offends you, but you sound like you are unable to stop repeating what you have been told by fundamentalism. Your words are the exact words pastors tell their flock to make them bend to their will, so that when they need to tell you what to do you have been programmed to obey their interpretation of the book and will do just about anything.

Fundamental Pastors, for the most part, are hucksters peddling heaven by threats of hell to mostly nice but not too sharp people, and they believe, because they are afraid of death, in hell.

Now telling someone to accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior is one thing, but saying if you don't you will go to hell is dark age barbarian propaganda.

Even believing in Jesus but not Paul, that he is not God and was a prophet or the Messiah is not good enough for fundies.

You have to admit that without believing that Jesus was an atoning human sacrifice of the Son of God who is also God, God in the flesh and man's only chance for salvation aka not burning in hell.

I understand why you are programmed, they have been at it since Nicea. It doesn't even make you a pleasant person, you're just rude and obnoxious and obviously not a real disciple.



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 09:52 AM
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a reply to: SethTsaddik

I am not a fundamentalist as you are. Your fundamental beleif I am a fundamental is flawed.

I am a Preserved Bible believer.

Do you, or Matrix, or Malocchi or anyone that fundamentally believes as you do, would truly know that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God?

Do you not realize that the faith of the woman who was healed of her infirmity was not acting in faith of hearing the word of God, but by what she heard about Jesus being able to heal, the same of the blind men, the lepers et al. Many heard Jesus speak not as a scribe but as of one with authority.

You all think you have something special but Jesus never once told you faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And if at this point you want to point out that Jesus is the Word (John 1:2, 3, 1John 5:7, Rev 19:13 ) because then it goes against all you and the others have already said, Jesus is not God.

So why do you all think you can use the word of God to support your blasphemies, your false accusations against Paul and still be saved. Faith cometh by hearing the word of God not by your twisting and blaspheming the word of God.

Get rid of Paul and you get rid of faith by the hearing of the word of God. Jesus never taught that faith cometh by hearing the word of God, he taught them to obey the law part of the word of God, but not in the way the Pharisees, Sadducees, the scribes or the religious elite did, but by the heart to follow the law as laid down to Moses.

When asked how to inherit eternal life he said to follow the commandments, then asked which one, then he replied all I have kept. Jesus told him to sell all and take up his cross. Not take up the word of God. Jesus whole ministry is around Israel and the law not one of false appearance in obedience but one of heart obedience.

I am not programmed I was a rebel in my seminarian education, frowned on by my religious elite instructors and only got my doctorate because they could not deny it because of my grades But if they could they would not have even given me it.

No my friend you will not find many like me because few that be that find it and narrow is the way. You and your fundamentalist friends as well as men of the religious elite are the ones who are brain washed and kept from faith and hearing of the word of God.

May God give you grace, not by the law but by faith if you will hear ALL the word of God and that includes the writings of Paul. For without him and his writings you have no faith cometh by hearing the word of God. You have only keep the commandments, repent and be baptized in the name of the Father the Son and the holy Ghost and no Holy Ghost will be given you without the laying on of hands. God changed course in Act (you don't believe that book either except that which you want because Luke was a conspirator with Paul). But even Peter said who can deny water that these who were given the Holy Ghost should be baptized in the name of the Lord (no Father Son and Holy Ghost) only the name of the Lord.

Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Not by making yourself god to say what is and is not the word of God, and surely not by blaspheming the word of God as you all have.
edit on 21-11-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 07:29 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn



I am not a fundamentalist as you are. Your fundamental beleif I am a fundamental is flawed.


fun·da·men·tal·ist.
NOUN
1.a person who believes in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture in a religion:

"religious fundamentalists"

ADJECTIVE
1.relating to or advocating the strict, literal interpretation of scripture:

"a fundamentalist Protestant preacher"




I am a Preserved Bible believer.


Which....would be the exact same thing as "fundamentalist".
How in the world you can label any one challenging the validity of Paul as a "fundamentalist" baffles me.




Do you, or Matrix, or Malocchi or anyone that fundamentally believes as you do, would truly know that faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God?


I will speak only for myself. The only thing I fundamentally believe these days, is that Paul is full of baloney and changed the message Jesus came to give and spent 3 1/2 years training and teaching the true disciples to be able to go out and carry His message.




Do you not realize that the faith of the woman who was healed of her infirmity was not acting in faith of hearing the word of God, but by what she heard about Jesus being able to heal, the same of the blind men, the lepers et al. Many heard Jesus speak not as a scribe but as of one with authority.


Exactly, so why the heck do you listen to Paul over Jesus?




You all think you have something special but Jesus never once told you faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And if at this point you want to point out that Jesus is the Word (John 1:2, 3, 1John 5:7, Rev 19:13 ) because then it goes against all you and the others have already said, Jesus is not God.


Jesus is NOT God. Jesus Himself worshipped HIS God. Jesus was FILLED with the WORD of God...that is why He is called the "Logos" (or Word). Being filled with the Word, doesn't MAKE Him God. It just means He was filled with the TRUE Spirit (the Ruach Qodesh)...and the FATHER spoke THROUGH Him.




So why do you all think you can use the word of God to support your blasphemies, your false accusations against Paul and still be saved. Faith cometh by hearing the word of God not by your twisting and blaspheming the word of God.


Do you even REALIZE that the WORD OF GOD was what came out of JESUS' MOUTH????
To out Paul is not blasphemous.....it's choosing loyalty to Jesus over a false apostle. Do you even realize that there WAS NO NEW TESTAMENT or letters from Paul, or even a canonized BIBLE when Jesus was talking and teaching and healing people???




Get rid of Paul and you get rid of faith by the hearing of the word of God. Jesus never taught that faith cometh by hearing the word of God, he taught them to obey the law part of the word of God, but not in the way the Pharisees, Sadducees, the scribes or the religious elite did, but by the heart to follow the law as laid down to Moses.


LOL.....and you are literally CHOOSING to reject the WORDS of your supposed SAVIOR, over Paul's rubbish?




When asked how to inherit eternal life he said to follow the commandments, then asked which one, then he replied all I have kept. Jesus told him to sell all and take up his cross. Not take up the word of God. Jesus whole ministry is around Israel and the law not one of false appearance in obedience but one of heart obedience.


Say's who? Your "seminary" (cemetery) teachers? Or, your pastor?
Then answer the question (which you have repeatedly failed to do)....WHY DID JESUS SAY TO TAKE HIS MESSAGE TO THE WHOLE WORLD? (oh, and this was waaaay before Mr. Saulus showed up).




I am not programmed I was a rebel in my seminarian education, frowned on by my religious elite instructors and only got my doctorate because they could not deny it because of my grades But if they could they would not have even given me it.


You were a rebel? Really? What exactly did you "rebel" about? Cause from what I can tell....you don't sound any different than most mainstream fundamental Christians.




No my friend you will not find many like me because few that be that find it and narrow is the way.


Well...you got that right...the way is narrow (which would be those pesky commandments that Jesus said you are supposed to follow....that your hero Paul did away with).




You and your fundamentalist friends




See above definition of fundamentalist. We definitely don't fit it.





May God give you grace, not by the law but by faith if you will hear ALL the word of God and that includes the writings of Paul. For without him and his writings you have no faith cometh by hearing the word of God. You have only keep the commandments, repent and be baptized in the name of the Father the Son and the holy Ghost and no Holy Ghost will be given you without the laying on of hands.


Sigh......you mean the COMMANDMENTS that JESUS told you and everyone else to KEEP? So, once again, you have shown your true loyalty is to Saul of Tarsus....not Jesus.
Oh, and I was filled with the HS at home, alone, and didn't need someone to "lay hands on me". I just asked to know Jesus.




Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.


Yup....and the WORD OF GOD, came directly out Jesus' mouth. NOT a murderous Pharisee.




Not by making yourself god to say what is and is not the word of God, and surely not by blaspheming the word of God as you all have.


How, in God's name, is it blasphemy, to ONLY LISTEN TO JESUS? HOW is it blasphemy to listen only to the SON?
I'm sorry....but, you are so far out in left field, it's sad.



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 09:56 PM
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originally posted by: Matrixsurvivor
a reply to: ChesterJohn

Well...you got that right...the way is narrow (which would be those pesky commandments that Jesus said you are supposed to follow....that your hero Paul did away with).


Obedience to God('s commandments) was as important in Paul's teachings as it was to Jesus, which relates to something Jesus said shortly after talking about the narrow gate and cramped road, while still on the same subject, Matthew 7:21-27:

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!

24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house, and it caved in, and its collapse was great.”


Our faith in the ransom sacrifice of Christ makes it possible for us not to be slaves of sin, that is, not to be completely controlled by it. This means that even though we are still imperfect, we choose to obey Jehovah and Jesus as our Masters. Paul explained this clearly in one of his letters. He said: “Reckon yourselves to be dead indeed with reference to sin but living with reference to God by Christ Jesus.” Then he warned: “Do you not know that if you keep presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves to obey him, you are slaves of him because you obey him, either of sin with death in view or of obedience with righteousness in view? But thanks to God that you were the slaves of sin but you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were handed over. Yes, since you were set free from sin, you became slaves to righteousness.” (Romans 6:11, 16-18) Notice that Paul says that we should be “obedient from the heart.” So when we dedicate ourselves to God, we become “slaves to righteousness.”

5. What must we all fight against, and why?

5 As dedicated slaves of God, we have two battles we must fight. The first one is our own imperfection. Paul too had this fight. He said: “I really delight in the law of God according to the man I am within, but I behold in my members another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s law that is in my members.” (Romans 7:22, 23) Because we are imperfect, we must keep fighting against our fleshly desires, that is, human desires to do things that God does not like. The apostle Peter urged us: “Be as free people, and yet holding your freedom, not as a blind for badness, but as slaves of God.”—1 Peter 2:16.

A willing slave that wants to please his master is obedient to his master which implies doing what the master tells him to do which in turn implies works of obedience.
Source: “Slave for Jehovah”

The bible including Paul's and Jesus' teachings blow the doctrine of "sola fide", faith alone, a.k.a. "The Gospel of Grace Through Faith" (alone? I presume) out of the water (and then I'm only talking about the doctrines attached to that terminology that aren't true, as taught in the bible; twisted half-truths are tricky like that, not everyone is teaching exactly the same things about that subject either and there's a lot of confusing, vague and contradictory use of language as usual to obscure the subject some more). It's telling when someone is trying to discredit Paul by using the doctrines of certain Trinitarians and attributing them to Paul.

Is anything more than faith needed in order to gain salvation?

Eph. 2:8, 9, RS: “By grace [“undeserved kindness,” NW] you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God—not because of works, lest any man should boast.” (The entire provision for salvation is an expression of God’s undeserved kindness. There is no way that a descendant of Adam can gain salvation on his own, no matter how noble his works are. Salvation is a gift from God given to those who put faith in the sin-atoning value of the sacrifice of his Son.)

Heb. 5:9, RS: “He [Jesus] became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.” (Italics added.) (Does this conflict with the statement that Christians are “saved through faith”? Not at all. Obedience simply demonstrates that their faith is genuine.)

Jas. 2:14, 26, RS: “What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so faith apart from works is dead.” (A person does not earn salvation by his works. But anyone who has genuine faith will have works to go with it—works of obedience to the commands of God and Christ, works that demonstrate his faith and love. Without such works, his faith is dead.)

Acts 16:30, 31, RS: “‘Men, what must I do to be saved?’ And they [Paul and Silas] said, ‘Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.’” (If that man and his household truly believed, would they not act in harmony with their belief? Certainly.)

Source: Salvation: Reasoning

James 2:24-26 (NW):

24 You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone. 25 In the same manner, was not Raʹhab the prostitute also declared righteous by works after she received the messengers hospitably and sent them out by another way? 26 Indeed, just as the body without spirit* is dead, so also faith without works is dead.
*: Or “breath.”

edit on 21-11-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 10:50 PM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

It is so clear you do not even know what you are talking about when it comes to scriptures.

Like I said you don't believe them to be true, preserved by God, without corruption and you expect me to see your point of view?

You fail to see the truth and you will always fail to see the truth.

eliminate Paul and you eliminate any chance of salvation by faith in Christ. You have picked and choose attitude and make yourself god to say what is true and at the same tie place yourself in a place that will not save and you want to lead others into that same trap.

Faith cometh by Hearing the words of God. You have destroyed he words of God, selfishly pick and choose what YOU want to be God's words, and thereby effectively ruin any chance of ever coming to faith because you don't have the entirety of Gods words which must be heard in order to have faith.

You either have more faith than any other before or you are a fool.
edit on 21-11-2016 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 11:15 PM
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a reply to: whereislogic

I'm just going to point out one thing to you.
How can you reconcile that JESUS HIMSELF said there were those who were righteous, yet Paul said that NO ONE was?
By the way, how the heck did Elijah get "taken up" to Heaven (without dying first, by the way). So, just what happened to him?? Was he righteous enough?

On top of that, can you explain how Paul can abrogate the whole law of God, when Jesus said till heaven and earth shall pass, not "one jot or tittle" would pass of the law, till ALL SHALL BE FULFILLED"? Last I checked, heaven and earth were still here. Oh, and Jesus is already dead, resurrected and back up to the Father. So, apparently, the LAW IS STILL IN EFFECT.

And James (on another note)....totally blew Paul's whole doctrine out of the water with his letter. It still amazes me at the apologetic poodle hoops Christians will go through to try and reconcile James and Paul.

Jesus never taught about original sin or a sin nature....He just said STOP DOING IT. Do you think He would tell folks that if they COULD'NT? We all have a choice. Paul was an egomaniac who excused his atrocious behavior by blaming it on some "fleshly" thing we were all stuck with.
However, JESUS Himself called many righteous. And they weren't perfect either. Maybe they were righteous because they actually followed those "built into our DNA" laws that tell us all how we are supposed to live and act? Maybe those who actually BELIEVED in a Higher Creator than YHWH were still acceptable.

Christianity has got to be the most idiotic religion I've ever seen. It's so contradictory, yet believers check their brains at the door and just blindly believe the Bible is complete truth. You can't see it's contradictions or how you treat others, because you are so blinded by the "inerrant book factor".
Gandhi had it right...he said "I like your Christ, but I don't like your Christians". All of you should take a good hard look in the mirror.
Oh wait! You can't see clearly, because it's dark...yea, you'll see clearly one day (according to Paul).
Peace out.



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 11:28 PM
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a reply to: ChesterJohn






It is so clear you do not even know what you are talking about when it comes to scriptures.


Huh...I kinda think the same of you. Touche, bro.




Like I said you don't believe them to be true, preserved by God, without corruption and you expect me to see your point of view?


Nope...we've gone round and around for 60 some odd pages. I never expected you to change your mind, so why do you think you will change mine? Kinda pointless, eh? Guess you just like to debate, lol.




You fail to see the truth and you will always fail to see the truth.


Hmmm.....according to who? YOU? Cause I don't think the real GOD has any problems with my digging for better answers. If you are content to just "go by the book", then why do you care what I think?




eliminate Paul and you eliminate any chance of salvation by faith in Christ


Not according to Jesus. Remember...the One who actually has "THE WORDS OF LIFE".





Faith cometh by Hearing the words of God. You have destroyed he words of God, selfishly pick and choose what YOU want to be God's words, and thereby effectively ruin any chance of ever coming to faith because you don't have the entirety of Gods words which must be heard in order to have faith.


Wow....I'm "selfishly picking and choosing to listen to Jesus alone". So, by doing that, I've completely ruined any chance I have of EVER coming to faith, because I don't (have the entirety of Gods words, which must be heard in order to have faith)....translation...(you don't believe in the false apostle Paul, so you don't have "faith", because you don't believe in the false apostle Paul"). Right?
Mighty presumptuous of you there, Chester. How in the heck would you know about my faith?
Do you even see how condemning Pauline Christianity makes you?
If I say I love Jesus and believe that HIS WORDS were TRUTH...and take Him at His WORD (not ANYONE else's), and I DON'T listen to Paul......then I am doomed to hellfire?
Good grief.



posted on Nov, 21 2016 @ 11:28 PM
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edit on 21-11-2016 by Matrixsurvivor because: double post



posted on Nov, 22 2016 @ 12:06 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor
Perhaps if you refer me to the bible verses you wish to discuss in a way that doesn't require me to have to find the right comments with references to bible verses related to the subjects you are asking questions about I'd be more inclined to put in more of an effort than this comment. But I'm not making any promises cause I'm having some issues with RSI.

For example:

Jesus Christ’s Example. Jesus Christ is the finest example of modesty. He told his disciples that he could not do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beheld the Father doing, and that his Father is greater than he is. (Joh 5:19, 30; 14:28) Jesus refused to accept titles not due him. When a ruler called him “Good Teacher,” Jesus replied: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.” (Lu 18:18, 19) And he told his disciples that as slaves to Jehovah they should not feel puffed up, either over things accomplished in God’s service or because of their worth to God. Rather, they should have the attitude, when they had done all the things assigned to them, that “we are good-for-nothing slaves. What we have done is what we ought to have done.”—Lu 17:10.

Additionally, the Lord Jesus Christ, as a perfect man on earth, was superior to his imperfect disciples and also possessed great authority from his Father. Yet, in dealing with his disciples, he was considerate of their limitations. He employed delicacy in training them and propriety of speech toward them. He did not put upon them more than they could bear at the time.—Joh 16:12; compare Mt 11:28-30; 26:40, 41.

Source: Modesty: Insight, Volume 2

Matthew 26:40, 41:

40 He returned to the disciples and found them sleeping, and he said to Peter: “Could you not so much as keep on the watch for one hour with me? 41 Keep on the watch and pray continually, so that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit, of course, is eager,* but the flesh is weak.

Just as Paul taught. On both subjects you mentioned something about.
Btw, Righteous Synonyms, from Thesaurus.com:

Synonyms for righteous
adj good, honest

Could Paul have been talking about a similar concept as what I bolded from Jesus earlier regarding the word "good"? Perhaps quoting Paul on the subject within its context may be of service in answering this question with more certainty than just acknowledging the possibility that that might be the case. I'll leave that up to you since it's your argument or rhetorical question.

Why did Jesus refuse to be called “Good Teacher,” and what profound truth did he thereby affirm?

5 Jehovah is also unique in his goodness. Not long before Jesus died, a man approached him to ask a question, addressing him with the words “Good Teacher.” Jesus replied: “Why do you call me good? Nobody is good, except one, God.” (Mark 10:17, 18) Now, that response may strike you as puzzling. Why would Jesus correct the man? Was not Jesus, in fact, a “Good Teacher”?

6 Evidently, the man was using the words “Good Teacher” as a flattering title. Jesus modestly directed such glory to his heavenly Father, who is good in the supreme sense. (Proverbs 11:2) But Jesus was also affirming a profound truth. Jehovah alone is the standard for what is good. Only he has the sovereign right to determine what is good and what is bad. Adam and Eve, by rebelliously partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and bad, sought to assume that right themselves. Unlike them, Jesus humbly leaves the setting of standards to his Father.

7 Moreover, Jesus knew that Jehovah is the source of all that is truly good. He is the Giver of “every good gift and every perfect present.” (James 1:17)

Source: “O How Great His Goodness Is!”: Close to Jehovah
edit on 22-11-2016 by whereislogic because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2016 @ 12:32 AM
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a reply to: whereislogic






And he told his disciples that as slaves to Jehovah they should not feel puffed up, either over things accomplished in God’s service or because of their worth to God.


Can you tell me ONE time that Jesus ever called His Father Jehovah? (though, there is no "J" in the Hebrew language..so it would be "YHWH".) Either way, Jesus never referred to His Father by that name. Not only that, but when He was on the cross (or stake)...He cried out "Eli..Eli". There was no YHWH mentioned...ever. If the name of YHWH was SO important....don't ya think Jesus might have just mentioned it once?
Plus, you never addressed my questions or points. Go back and read my post.



posted on Nov, 22 2016 @ 12:35 AM
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a reply to: Matrixsurvivor

Their bible has him using Jehovah...




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