Gary Johnson Scary Stance On Immigration

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sirlancelot

Funny how you start out talking about making legal immigration easier, then start talking about how bad illegal immigration is. If the borders were open there would be no such thing as illegal immigrants.

Where in my post did I mention making Illegal immigration easier? I illustrated that is Gary Johnson's position which I oppose! Perhaps you may want to re read.

a reply to: sirlancelot

Well, even if by some unforseen miracle Trump were to win, which I don't see happening, nothing will change; he'll talk a lot about closing the borders, but its all just talk. Closing the border with Mexico for example, is 1) impossible and 2) would stop only a small percentage of the illegal entries. The far bigger problem is the people who enter legally, like on an H-1B visa, a student visa, or even a tourist visa and then over stay the visa without leaving the country. Nothing can or will be done about that because Homeland (parent company of the Border Patrol) doesn't track the visa traffic.

originally posted by: sirlancelot

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: sirlancelot

Funny how you start out talking about making legal immigration easier, then start talking about how bad illegal immigration is. If the borders were open there would be no such thing as illegal immigrants.

Where in my post did I mention making Illegal immigration easier? I illustrated that is Gary Johnson's position which I oppose! Perhaps you may want to re read.

Sorry, let me be clearer: You start out talking about how Johnson would make legal immigration easier, then you switch to your opinion that illegal immigration is bad. Johnson would eliminate illegal immigration. Got it?

As we get closer to the election I expect there will be even more threads trying to dissuade people from voting 3rd party.


Poll: Gary Johnson At 26% In Utah, Three Points From Overtaking Trump

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: sirlancelot

Well, even if by some unforseen miracle Trump were to win, which I don't see happening, nothing will change; he'll talk a lot about closing the borders, but its all just talk. Closing the border with Mexico for example, is 1) impossible and 2) would stop only a small percentage of the illegal entries. The far bigger problem is the people who enter legally, like on an H-1B visa, a student visa, or even a tourist visa and then over stay the visa without leaving the country. Nothing can or will be done about that because Homeland (parent company of the Border Patrol) doesn't track the visa traffic.

Maybe your right but if there was ever going to be a change Trump is the only guy that could do it!

Yep I liked this guy and I am really hesitant on Trump. This is a deal breaker for me as well. I am not a huge Trump fan but would vote for a trained monkey over Hillary Clintona reply to: stosh64

originally posted by: conspiracy nut
Eventually the entire planet will be open borders, countries are just lines in the sand created because of our primitive tribal instincts. I would love open borders and would love a home on the Mexican or French Riviera

As far as I know, you can't own Oceanfront property in Mexico if you aren't a Mexican Citizen. SORRY. Those damn Mexican Nationalists, why can't they be Globalists? They would be so much better off having foreigners own all their beachfront. Silly Mexicans.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: sirlancelot
Considering the average illegal immigrant crossing the southern border has at best a 10 grade education so basically we are looking at people willing to work farm and service jobs at very little wage. Wages so low they probably wouldn't pay much in federal or state income tax. Wages so low they still would most likely need some sort of of government assistance! So if it cost more per worker then their tax earns we are paying for them to be here at the expense of many other important issue's those tax dollars could be used for.

Not every person that wishes to emigrate to the United States is uneducated or will be working a low paying job.

But most are and that is the reality of it. Most want to come over to solve their financial situations because of that fact. So being able to say that not all of them are and trying to use that as a argument for completely open borders is a cop out and completely ignoring the actual facts and their actual consequences.

originally posted by: everyone
But most are and that is the reality of it. Most want to come over to solve their financial situations because of that fact. So being able to say that not all of them are and trying to use that as a argument for completely open borders is a cop out and completely ignoring the actual facts and their actual consequences.

And everyone who has ever come here has a college degree? Do you think your ancestors were all well scholared individuals?

It starts somewhere and the ultimate goal is the betterment of your family.

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

If they were smart enough everyone would be libertarians right now. It is not some underground movement anymore.
The facts are easy to find, countries with the highest economic freedom especially in the private property rights index are the richest.

Like I said. Education and free flow of information is the key. Libertarians are not against private property.

People vote for their interest. Goverment workers are not going to buy losing their funding and jobs. People are intellectually lazy.

Which is why libertarianism is a good for all people. Government workers are going to agree to a pay raise by eliminating income taxes. Small businesses are going to be for removing the IRS(and the overhead costs)and corporate taxes so they can hire more people and make more money.
Listen I want libertarianism to work, my real world experience disagrees. I can get a lot more convincing done using irrational social dynamics than reason.
The United States was founded by classical liberals(right libertarian). That is a example.
The reason bearing ron paul has nothing on the social dynamics master donald trump.

Donald Trump has really poor policies. How much will that wall cost? Why punish one of our main trading partners(Mexico) with a US-Mexico Berlin wall? Why arm Japan and South Korea with nuclear weapons? Discriminating based on religion. Deporting 11 million people(while legally valid. It would be immoral,extremely difficult and slow, and very expensive.).

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

I discriminate based on culture. Cultures can be studied and their outcomes measured. I am not going to push any existing cultures out of the US but I can prevent other cultures from coming in. Not to mention the negative effects of multiculturalism/balkanization. Watching civic culture fall apart is quite the sight.

S. Korea and Japan are rational actors, nukes would provide counterbalance to china.

How many times will we commit amnesty? been there done this many times. Nothing solved. pathetic. I don't blame immigrants, but the government has an obligation to its citizens not to its aliens.
Is it moral to depress wages? is it moral to mass import h1b's fire the native workforce but have them train their replacements first? Is is moral to bring in millions of workers when millions of native workers sit idle. Companies used to train people. Now they only hire experienced older workers and non-natives and in the same breath blame young people for having no skills. And no this is not my story, but I see the company I work for not want to put in the time to train anyone even at the low skill jobs.

a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

nothing wrong with his income tax plan imo

originally posted by: jellyrev
a reply to: John_Rodger_Cornman

I discriminate based on culture. Cultures can be studied and their outcomes measured. I am not going to push any existing cultures out of the US but I can prevent other cultures from coming in. Not to mention the negative effects of multiculturalism/balkanization. Watching civic culture fall apart is quite the sight.

Discriminating based on religion is unconstitutional. Background checks(for a travel visa) and monitoring of people from a country or countries based on facts(harboring terrorists,rogue state,country we are at war with) are ok.

S. Korea and Japan are rational actors, nukes would provide counterbalance to china.
Think about what your saying. This will cause a nuclear war.
How many times will we commit amnesty? been there done this many times. Nothing solved. pathetic. I don't blame immigrants, but the government has an obligation to its citizens not to its aliens.
Is it moral to depress wages?We are competing against third world sweat shop labor and automation. We have two choices. Provide a better service/set of skills or be left behind is it moral to mass import h1b's fire the native workforce but have them train their replacements first? Is is moral to bring in millions of workers when millions of native workers sit idle. Companies used to train people. Now they only hire experienced older workers and non-natives and in the same breath blame young people for having no skills. And no this is not my story, but I see the company I work for not want to put in the time to train anyone even at the low skill jobs.
Because its cheaper for them to do so.The extremely high corporate taxes doesn't help either. Economics is immoral,predatory and exploitative. Always has been.

It's not illegal immigrants its...

-Third world sweat shop labor.
-some of the highest corporate taxes in the world.
-income taxes.
-automation.
-over-regulation on small business.
-affordable care act.(hire more than 49 full time workers and see what happens)
-outsourcing industry because of the highest corporate taxes in the world.

a reply to: jellyrev

Except for the fact that we would still have an income tax. His structure might last as long as he were in office, assuming he could get it passed. Might even last longer. Of course as soon as the next tinkerer comes along...

I like Johnson's income tax plan (or should I say plans for the income tax muhahaha) much better.

Anyhow, general reply I guess.

I've been a Libertarian for years. It's refreshing to see us getting a little more attention this cycle. That being said, the open borders position scares me a little too.

When I've heard Johnson speak to these issues though, it doesn't sound as bad as some open border purists might like to make it seem. He does want to allow and increase immigration, but he's not really arguing for a complete dissolution of a border. I don't think it's as bad as some of you guys think it is.

Many libertarians are open border purists in this sense that they think border security should not be enforced at all. That, to secure a nation's border in any fashion, government force must be applied and therefore the whole concept is flawed and must be intellectually discarded because oh no government force had to get involved. To apply force as little as possible should be the goal, restricting the least rights possible. No force at all is anarchy, but I digress. Forcibly deporting 11 million people is unlikely to happen during a Johnson presidency at any rate.

I also think that Mr. Johnson is unlikely to ignore national security concerns. Worst case scenario he'll be lax on border security. Just because he wants there to be no border doesn't mean he's going to do away with it.

I do share the concerns about the domestic workforce being displaced by an immigrant workforce. I have been one of those low skill workers in an immigrant heavy community with a poor job market. It was no fun. No fun at all. Of course in a good job market those concerns are lessened considerably.

In an economic environment with no income or corporate tax the landscape would probably start to look a little different pretty quickly. You'd probably have a lot of companies bringing their factories back here to the states. A lot of jobs would be created with no government dollars spent. It might not be so bad having some extra immigration if we were living in that sort of economic environment. We are a nation comprised mostly of immigrants, after all.