Former Engineer at Vandenburg A.F.B. comes clean about past ufo sightings

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: alldaylong

It really should be reiterated that the blue streak and the Thor missile systems were being developed in tandem, both in the US and the UK. The blue streak never went anywhere but the Thor did.

Wrong again.

The Blue Streak was used for launching satelites for The European Launcher Development Organisation (ELDO) project

a reply to: alldaylong

Dude semantics, really? I meant as an IRBM.

a reply to: BeefNoMeat

I wonder if he meant kilometers per hour? That would be more like it I think. 3,500 km/h

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: alldaylong

Dude semantics, really? I meant as an IRBM.

As an ICBM The Bluestraek Project was scrapped in 1960.

This chap is talking of Bluestreak launches at Vandenberg between 1965-1978.

Did Vandenberg ever launch European Satelites between those dates? I think not.

Bluestreak was completely scrapped in 1971.

Bottom Line: "I saw some UFOs chasing missiles when I was at Vandenberg."

That's it.

Like many a UFO sighting, the real question is: What can you do with this, i.e.: How does this enhance our understanding of UFOs? There are no pictures, no dates, no corroboration. Whether you accept his story at face value, or whether you have a pedantic point to pick upon, the question remains. It kind of generally falls in line with other stories we have of UFO interest in our military capabilities, but other than that, it's just a story that fits into "daylight disk" on the Hynek Scale, just a step above "Nocturnal light." OK, so we got "cigar shape" out of the deal, but we didn't even get to "CE-1"

Overall, it's not a very useful story. All you can do is file it away.

originally posted by: alldaylong

originally posted by: Jonjonj
a reply to: alldaylong

Dude semantics, really? I meant as an IRBM.

As an ICBM The Bluestraek Project was scrapped in 1960.

This chap is talking of Bluestreak launches at Vandenberg between 1965-1978.

Did Vandenberg ever launch European Satelites between those dates? I think not.

Bluestreak was completely scrapped in 1971.

Wrong again. Blue streak was never an ICBM, it was an intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM). See how semantics works?

Facts are simple. Did the guy work where he said he worked. Did he have contact with the programs he said he had. The rest is anecdotal but provocative, and can neither be dismissed nor proven by arguments about semantics.

a reply to: Jonjonj

it was an intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM)

I think you mean MRBM ( Mediate Range Ballistic Missile )

No such thing as an IRBM

originally posted by: schuyler
Overall, it's not a very useful story. All you can do is file it away.

That's generally my criteria for determining the value of a UFO report. What more did it add to what we already know (which honestly isn't much)? If it's just more of the same, then it gets filed, either in a cabinet or trash can.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: Jonjonj

it was an intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM)

I think you mean MRBM ( Mediate Range Ballistic Missile )

No such thing as an IRBM

We could go all day I suppose, appropriate for your nick.

IRBMs are currently operated by the People's Republic of China, India,[1][2] Israel, and possibly North Korea.[3] The United States, USSR, United Kingdom, and France were former operators.

The pgm-17 Thor was considered an IRBM.

IRBM not MRBM

a reply to: alldaylong

Uhhhhhhhhhh . . .

How old are you?

You seem rather demanding that others be perfect in their recall in order to be credible . . . to . . . drum roll . . .

you.

Guess what . . . humans are inherently imperfect without being useless.

Sheesh.

Perhaps you could THINK! a LOT better.

I really hate it when people just waltz in to a thread, say stuff and waltz out. As if they were the feckin be all and end all of stuff!

originally posted by: data5091
a reply to: intrptr

most likely I would guess they were seen by more than he. He said launch films were classified, and if now still existed would be in the SAC area.

Launches are visible over a hemisphere, nobody else looked at them through binocs or ever saw anything out of the ordinary track or accelerate away, ever? Joe public had cameras then, too.

a reply to: onequestion

Those aircraft whatever they are move VERY fast.

Standing still compared to what I saw one time, long ago.

Perhaps this is his Mandella Effect...in his time line, it was Bluestreak.....

Of course, people talk about the mysterious "Black Knight".

But the Black Knight was also a British missile tested from Woomera.

Just to add, I think Ive mentioned before, but i have to ask Mandella.....

I met a chap 20 years ago...he was restoring a Jensen Interceptor, got talking and he said he was in the RAAF in the 60s and worked at Woomera.
Of course, off the cuff, I said, oh did you see any UFOs?
He answer was.....Well I was a camera tracking operator for missile tests, and yes we have several films of strange objects pacing the missiles.......He never saw the films, they were quickly developed then sent to HQ for analysis, and all involved were told to keep quite.....

So yes, film exists, not only in the USA.
What or who they are, remains the mystery.....they were certainly interested from the period of WW2 to at least the late 70s.
Things seem quiet now...could correspond with our lack a multiple continuous Nuclear testing, like those stupid old days.
Blowing up deserts, remote islands, the underground, in the atmosphere......Humans are crazy!!!

They dont seem to have as much interest in us as they once did. We have calmed a little. Maybe they observe differently now.

I tend to think they live here on Earth with us, or close to us, or some overlapping dimension they can travel thru...
But I have no clue.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: data5091
a reply to: intrptr

most likely I would guess they were seen by more than he. He said launch films were classified, and if now still existed would be in the SAC area.

Launches are visible over a hemisphere, nobody else looked at them through binocs or ever saw anything out of the ordinary track or accelerate away, ever? Joe public had cameras then, too.

Launches are visible for only a few seconds and Joe Public would have to be looking through binocs at precisely the right time. These guys were assigned to watch and evaluate the launch with the right equipment so they were much more likely to be in a position to see something.

You bring up a good point, though. Now I would guess a goodly percentage of the public has a smart phone capable of taking video. That begs the question of whether they CAN, I realize, as I'm one who has no clue how, but still, percentage wise a lot more people have cameras on tap than used to. Yet we're not getting very good pictures these days.

I believe we (all of us interested) are in a very bad space right now. On the one hand we get indistinct blobs of light that do us no good. On the other, we get very good pics where the instant claim is: Photoshop! So basically we can't trust pictures any more. It's just too easy to manipulate them.

a reply to: schuyler

On the west coast, Vandenberg missile tests are visible for more than a few seconds. They cause quite a stir.

The tracking camera he may have had access to footage from is radar guided and very tightly focused on the missile itself. Not sure if it would see anything 'nearby' or 'accelerating away' from it. Of course, we don't have a glimpse of that.

The guy 'sounds' as though he worked there when the tests were being preformed. Not sure about the claims of often seen unknowns associated with launches.

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: data5091

The report sounds like a load of cobblers.

The Bluesteak Missile was a British built missile and from what i gather it was never used by The U.S.

I suggest that he may have been confusing the BLUESTREAK (which was, as you point out, a British ballistic missile) with the BLUE SCOUT, which was a USAF version of NASA's Scout sounding rocket and which was, in fact, launched from VAFB in the 1960's. The 73 year old witness seems to have had a "senior moment".

Actually didn't this guy just spout enough to warrant a FOIA request?
I'd say that was "something".

Calling IsaacKoi!!
Cleanup on aisle #3!!!

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: schuyler

On the west coast, Vandenberg missile tests are visible for more than a few seconds. They cause quite a stir.

I guess we can argue what "a few seconds" means, but, just as an example, I watched the last launch of SpaceX. You could actually see the rocket with the naked eye for well less than a minute. After that it got so high up that it was barely a point of light in the sky. The advanced telephoto lenses of the tracking cameras caught it for about three minutes, but those aren't the kind of cameras Joe Public would have. And at that point, the first stage was done and the rocket was over 50 miles up.

Point being: Joe Public, even if he has a monster 300mm telephoto on his film-based SLR, is not going to be able to keep the rocket in sight for more than a few seconds, and is going to have a harder and harder time keeping it within his field of vision as it gets smaller. In other words, the likelihood of him getting a good shot of a UFO trailing the thing is slim. And indeed, no one has come up with such a picture. There's no need to be theoretical about it. The fact is we have no pictures. All we have are stories. And the best story, told by a military officer in "Out of the Blue" about a UFO "firing lasers" at the rocket to destroy its nuke, was just debunked by the engineer referenced in the OP.

So, as with many of these stories, when you examine them, there's not much there.

P.S. From launch to return and landing of the main stage of Space X total elapsed time: 8 minutes.

a reply to: schuyler

So, as with many of these stories, when you examine them, there's not much there.

I agree.

My point about the tight focus radar guided tracking cameras have on launch vehicles still stands, too.
The focus is so tight, just the rocket is visible in frame.

But even here we see that only one track is visible from the ground...

time lapse of launch at night