Homeschooled children have higher graduation rates, more social prowess

In the UK the rates of children home schooled are doubling each year, once what was thought of as a hippie approach is actually becoming very normal. I am actually surprised that the state allows it.

I have had this discussion with my wife about our 2 yo, and the final straw was when we leaned that 7 yo are expected to do homework for Christ sake rather than err be a child maybe??.. If and when the time comes we are still in London there is no bloody way he will be going to the excuse of a education system they offer here.

I will simply home school him plus it means we can go on educational trips be it foreign countries on holiday or local museums without the threat of heavy fines and a criminal record for us stupid immoral parents as per what is the current situation if you want to take your child out of school for a period of time.


RA

The ability to flesh out what they're naturally drawn to when they're ready to learn it is a massive plus. My going-on-3rd grader has a strong talent for art. This has lead to being ahead of her PS peers in geometry, learning drafting from dad, and toying around with various digital art programs. It's laying a strong foundation for multiple career paths doing what she enjoys as a main learning focus (creativity, at it's basic nuts & bolts) Learning has a lasting impact when learning is fun. She's not the biggest fan of math or science, but the art route is a great way to get both subjects covered on the sly. Drafting is math, no way around it. Art projects? The materials came from somewhere, with the help of science. Melding these things together makes it fun for her to learn them. Even back in my public school years, they completely missed the point with making learning a fun & desired activity.

Her going-on-2nd-grade little sister loves math & science. I can't begin tell you the fun she can have doing experiments with dry ice (or just talking about it, lol. want to know about sublimation? She'll talk your ear off) Or exploring something under a microscope. Or just doing math. She's very adept at math, multiplication, division, fractions, none of it phases her. Dad writes out simple algebra for her to keep her busy some evenings (doesn't last long..."There! Math puzzle solved! I got the answer!") Thank god dad's the math fanatic in this house, he'll have great ideas for keeping her challenged & satisfied over the years.

Considering their interests and how they learn, my kids would be beyond bored in a traditional schooling setting.

HOW SPLENDIDLY WONDERFUL!

CONGRATS!

You sound like the poster Dad for the thread! LOL.

I agree with your points entirely. And public schools cannot begin to match such quality factors. They are too stressed out with large class sizes and a bunch of PC crap taking too much time from more essential learning.

And fun . . . that has to be scheduled . . . supposedly . . . in PE. Sigh.

Thanks.

originally posted by: Nyiah
The ability to flesh out what they're naturally drawn to when they're ready to learn it is a massive plus. My going-on-3rd grader has a strong talent for art. This has lead to being ahead of her PS peers in geometry, learning drafting from dad, and toying around with various digital art programs. It's laying a strong foundation for multiple career paths doing what she enjoys as a main learning focus (creativity, at it's basic nuts & bolts) Learning has a lasting impact when learning is fun. She's not the biggest fan of math or science, but the art route is a great way to get both subjects covered on the sly. Drafting is math, no way around it. Art projects? The materials came from somewhere, with the help of science. Melding these things together makes it fun for her to learn them. Even back in my public school years, they completely missed the point with making learning a fun & desired activity.

Her going-on-2nd-grade little sister loves math & science. I can't begin tell you the fun she can have doing experiments with dry ice (or just talking about it, lol. want to know about sublimation? She'll talk your ear off) Or exploring something under a microscope. Or just doing math. She's very adept at math, multiplication, division, fractions, none of it phases her. Dad writes out simple algebra for her to keep her busy some evenings (doesn't last long..."There! Math puzzle solved! I got the answer!") Thank god dad's the math fanatic in this house, he'll have great ideas for keeping her challenged & satisfied over the years.

Considering their interests and how they learn, my kids would be beyond bored in a traditional schooling setting.

Last I had heard they did not do PE anymore, something about council selling playing fields for more housing. That is why I love the Finnish system, outdoor education is a massive part of what they are taught. They get to play Ice Hockey for Christ sake!!!..

As I was growing up my mum and dad took me on lots of day trips to museums, my teachers back then brilliant when I think about it. They would sit down with me a few days before and ask if I wanted to do a presentation about a subject when I got back after the visit.. Bomber command and the RAF when I went to Hendon and I remember doing one about dead sea scrolls from memory..

I cannot imagine this happening now?.. Way to, PC, liberal leftist twats..

RA

I am someone that believes that getting outdoors and just destressing (is that a word) is so important to ones well being.

INDEED. EXCELLENT. SPLENDID.

CONGRATS.

Loved your narrative.

Outdoors and other 'real world' experiences are unbeatable for preparing kids for adulthood, imho.

Thanks.

originally posted by: slider1982
Last I had heard they did not do PE anymore, something about council selling playing fields for more housing. That is why I love the Finnish system, outdoor education is a massive part of what they are taught. They get to play Ice Hockey for Christ sake!!!..

As I was growing up my mum and dad took me on lots of day trips to museums, my teachers back then brilliant when I think about it. They would sit down with me a few days before and ask if I wanted to do a presentation about a subject when I got back after the visit.. Bomber command and the RAF when I went to Hendon and I remember doing one about dead sea scrolls from memory..

I cannot imagine this happening now?.. Way to, PC, liberal leftist twats..

RA

I am someone that believes that getting outdoors and just destressing (is that a word) is so important to ones well being.

originally posted by: andy1972
It's a fantastic idea..if you're rich and don't have to work 8 - 10 hours a day and can spend all that time teaching your kids...

Andy,


Come on man, how many hours a day do people waste?. When you home school the quality is so much better hence less time needed.. TV, Videos games nights drinking in crap bars with people that do not give a damn about you.. Not saying that is your situation but that child is everything to every parent, you owe it to him her to do the best you can. What have you learned about the "system" on here?? why let them suffer.

I was always a glass half empty type of guy and although successful it was a bloody gimmick, As [parents we cut everything out we did not need (surprising amount of junk we thought we needed) my wife now does a few hours work a day and will have plenty of time for schooling..

In Life when you are fighting a Gorilla you don't stop when you are tired you stop when the Gorilla is, its a f#cking hurt locker out there..

Peace


RA

a reply to: slider1982

And how are the 415,000 foster care children and 16 million poor children suppose to fight that gorilla?

The gorilla is the dismantling of our education system.

As someone who has taught in a large, urban public school (high school mathematics,) the easiest answer to improving public schools is obvious. More teachers = smaller class sizes = more individualized lessons = better student results. This is a direct parallel to why home-schooled students can usually learn material faster and better. They get individualized attention/lessons. This is impossible to do when you have 35 students in a classroom and 50 minutes to teach them all today's lesson.

VERY WELL PUT.

I wish more parents had these insights.

And, doing big projects in bite sized chunks is an important principle . . . when that's the wisest way to go. Some folks are so daunted by big tasks, they never begin them.

And anything one does a LOT of, frequently . . . can be used to reinforce something one wants to do more of. So many times or minutes of activity "A" per so many minutes of the activity one wants to increase.

Thanks.

originally posted by: slider1982

originally posted by: andy1972
It's a fantastic idea..if you're rich and don't have to work 8 - 10 hours a day and can spend all that time teaching your kids...

Andy,


Come on man, how many hours a day do people waste?. When you home school the quality is so much better hence less time needed.. TV, Videos games nights drinking in crap bars with people that do not give a damn about you.. Not saying that is your situation but that child is everything to every parent, you owe it to him her to do the best you can. What have you learned about the "system" on here?? why let them suffer.

I was always a glass half empty type of guy and although successful it was a bloody gimmick, As [parents we cut everything out we did not need (surprising amount of junk we thought we needed) my wife now does a few hours work a day and will have plenty of time for schooling..

In Life when you are fighting a Gorilla you don't stop when you are tired you stop when the Gorilla is, its a f#cking hurt locker out there..

Peace


RA

Home schooling does provide a better environment for academic learning and excellence, sure. But I beg to differ on the "more mature and socially adept" conclusions because the environment the kid is exposed to is controlled by the parents and their personal preferences.

I've seen it too many times when someone who was home schooled has trouble in normal day to day social interactions because they were never exposed to them and in effect, never learned how to identify or work with them. A clear example of this is peer pressure, where the social maturity to identify and respond accordingly is compromised making them more vulnerable to said pressure. Social interactions are something that we have to study and understand through experience and being home schooled goes against that, raising the risk of a socially awkward people.

Also, as an opinion I do believe that there is a correlation between self-esteem and self-worth problems when they make the transition to the real world where they stop being the “center of the universe” as in their homes and struggle with that fact. Now, if you add trouble with social understanding to that equation, we get a frustrated kid that does not want to be part of society and is prone to depression. The fact that your parents valued every contribution you made and valued your existence does not mean the rest of the world will follow suit. Actually, there is no reason for society to go out of their way to make you feel valued. Overcoming this change in environment will be almost impossible and most kids will just distance themselves from society as a whole. Of course, some kids have exceptional adjustment abilities, but that is just a very small percent of the pool of all home schooled kids and wishful thinking will not make a difference.

An example of the above is love relationships, imagine you like an above average girl (or boy) but get rejected in favor of another socially fluent person with actual dating experience. Let’s look at this from an economics point of view. In economics jargon, let’s say girl (or boy) is a “product”, your qualities and experiences is your “purchasing power”, the “demand” is the purchasing power of other people interested in said product and the “free market” is the real world.
In the free market the demand is what establishes the price of the product. In other words, the price to obtain the girl (or boy) in question is as high as the lowest qualities and experiences of the interested people. Given that everything else is equal between you and the other person except the social experience, there is no logical reason for the girl (or boy) to choose you over the person with higher purchasing power.

This type of real world situation can be projected to a number of cases such as work promotions and leadership positions; and they will be unprecedented to someone who has only been home schooled putting them at a very big disadvantage with very little time to learn when compared to kids that went through the harsh realities in school.

I guess everything has a cost-opportunity implication, better academics but less social prowess.
My 2 cents.

originally posted by: andy1972
It's a fantastic idea..if you're rich and don't have to work 8 - 10 hours a day and can spend all that time teaching your kids...

It doesn't take 8 to 10 hours.

Most homeschooled kids only do actual classwork for maybe half the day tops. Because they are getting undivided attention from the instructor(s) and can more or less be schooled year round, they don't have to sit in class that long and can actually work the standard curriculum at a faster pace than their classroom schooled peers.

Additionally, you can always work through your community to find a co-op group where a group of parents work together to homeschool their kids in a bunch. It provides some socialization and allows parents more freedom to work around work scheduling since different parents will do the schooling on different days in different homes.

a reply to: Annee

You hear about them all the time.

The kids who are found dead in a freezer because mommy killed them and stuffed them there fell off the grid because they were "homeschooled" for example.

Or there were some kids who were found living in a box in a cave here in town with a local mechanic keeping an eye on them. Mommy said they were "homeschooled."

You hear plenty about the failures and they get brought up all the time.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Salute! Great thread.

On the one point about social prowess.......thats because public schools foster dysfunction through force of conformity. I just said a mouthful there for the wise and don't have to elaborate at this point. Homeschooled kids lack the baggage and don't associate school, learning ect with so much of the extra bullcrap that lives and breaths in a public school setting.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

You hear about them all the time.

The kids who are found dead in a freezer because mommy killed them and stuffed them there fell off the grid because they were "homeschooled" for example.

Or there were some kids who were found living in a box in a cave here in town with a local mechanic keeping an eye on them. Mommy said they were "homeschooled."

You hear plenty about the failures and they get brought up all the time.

Every group has their extremists and nut cases. Its not really about home schooling.

Failures in homeschooling are rarely brought up.

Home school anonymous' goal.

HA’s goal is to bring awareness to personal experiences of homeschooling subcultures and work to educate both homeschooling communities and the general public how experiences of abuse, isolation, and neglect arise within those subcultures. homeschoolersanonymous.org...

originally posted by: Logarock
a reply to: BO XIAN

Salute! Great thread.

On the one point about social prowess.......thats because public schools foster dysfunction through force of conformity. I just said a mouthful there for the wise and don't have to elaborate at this point. Homeschooled kids lack the baggage and don't associate school, learning ect with so much of the extra bullcrap that lives and breaths in a public school setting.

Thanks for your kind words.

I greatly agree.

Certainly not all home schooling situations are equal.

However, the research in the OP is reasonably solid and accurate.

The kids get more and better feedback on their SOCIAL interactions as much as they do on their academic stuff. Of course, they'd tend to be better at it--IN MOST CASES.

OF COURSE jerky home schooling parents are likely to produce flawed kids. Guess what the deliberately dumbing down and horrifically ruthlessly PC mangling public schools do--TURN OUT GENERATIONS OF CLUELESS IDIOTS mostly fit for becoming compliant Eloi shuffling off to the caverns of the Morlachs.

Sigh.

Thanks much for your routine perceptiveness and thoughtful posts on ATS.

Cheers.

a reply to: Annee

Yet that site also has many examples of the wonderful results of homeschooling.

a reply to: ketsuko

You say it's going take them half the day for them to do their work. That could either be 12 or 6 hours depending on your view point. Public school children are learning usually 5 hours a day, 4 If you count PE.

Someone needs a little schooling themselves it seems.

originally posted by: TheLotLizard
a reply to: ketsuko

You say it's going take them half the day for them to do their work. That could either be 12 or 6 hours depending on your view point. Public school children are learning usually 5 hours a day, 4 If you count PE.

Someone needs a little schooling themselves it seems.

*yawn*

You go so far to undermine my point that you become ridiculous.

The person I replied to said 8 to 10 hours as thought homeschooling takes a full work day or 8 to 10 hours. Homeschooling takes at most half that. Doing the math, that's 4 to 5 hours tops of concentrated school work. If they are only working on school work for the same amount of time in their public school, then why do they go there for 8 hours on an average day (which is likely what the original poster I was replying to was talking about)?

I'll answer, It's because the large group setting allows inefficiencies to creep in. The group works less efficiently than a small group or one-on-one setting can.

That means you can cover more material more quickly in a homeschool environment even if you are working at a slower than average pace.

imho,

Your routinely, chronically VERY perceptive, accurate, wise, functional, practical, insightful, redemptive perspectives and posts are wonderful and encouraging to me persistently.

THANKS enormously.

May you live long and prosper . . . and your posting, as well.

Your kids must be very wonderfully rare kids out of a 100 average in the neighborhood. Am I wrong?

No, I'm not assuming they are perfect. That would be a little frightful! LOL.

Cheers and please keep up the great work.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: TheLotLizard
a reply to: ketsuko

You say it's going take them half the day for them to do their work. That could either be 12 or 6 hours depending on your view point. Public school children are learning usually 5 hours a day, 4 If you count PE.

Someone needs a little schooling themselves it seems.

*yawn*

You go so far to undermine my point that you become ridiculous.

The person I replied to said 8 to 10 hours as thought homeschooling takes a full work day or 8 to 10 hours. Homeschooling takes at most half that. Doing the math, that's 4 to 5 hours tops of concentrated school work. If they are only working on school work for the same amount of time in their public school, then why do they go there for 8 hours on an average day (which is likely what the original poster I was replying to was talking about)?

I'll answer, It's because the large group setting allows inefficiencies to creep in. The group works less efficiently than a small group or one-on-one setting can.

That means you can cover more material more quickly in a homeschool environment even if you are working at a slower than average pace.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Oh, goodness no!

He's not perfect. We're fighting him at the moment. We put him in a Montessori program for the summer. It's been a good experience in some ways, but there are some kids in that place who are rubbing off in not so good ways. When we send him back to straight-laced Classical school in the fall, we really don't need to explain why he's suddenly spouting "Damn!' all the time for example.