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Can America recover its reputation in the world?

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posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 03:58 PM
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Man, I didn't expect so many responses so quickly but then again this can be a heated topic. The sad thing is, I agree with most of the posts in this thread thus far so I guess that makes me a little confused to say the least. I'm not what you could consider a republican or a liberal which is why I decided to go with the libertarian candidate in the last election. My views are pretty simple. I'm proud to live in this country and always will be because administrations are dynamic but what America means to me is static, it will never change. With that said, I started this thread because of the changes I have seen with my family, with my friends and acquaintances, and with my country in general. I feel as if Im that guy that jumps up and tries to break up a bar fight. I feel as if this country has become so polarized that there is no longer any voice of reason. The arrogance is astounding, as good friends, and even family, of mine now take the attitude of screw them; they deserve to die if they get in our way. It is to the point that most dont even care what we do to other countries as long as it is in the name of security. My question is though; at what point did we begin to believe that by destroying another country would we eliminate our enemies? I mean, are we going to completely wipe clean the entire Muslim population of the earth? Its really just common sense, the more countries we invade, in the name of our security, the more enemies we create. Its a vicious cycle that will surely lead to an unfortunate end. Many say its just the law of jungle, that only the strong survive and at this point we are the strong. The problem is that this statement works for the animal kingdom but I for one am ready to finally rise above the animals. We need to realize that a lot of what is happening today stems back to our policies during the cold war. The two great super powers didnt care whose toes they stepped on, in the world, as long as it gained them a strategic advantage. We supported many countries to help destroy others all to keep up with communism. We now cant understand why these countries hate us so much. We helped Sadam attack Iran and kill thousands but today cant understand why Iran distrusts us so much. At what point did we come down with convenient amnesia? We need to realize our past mistakes, own up to them, and start a new policy to move ahead towards peace. I dont care if old wounds take long to heal for they will eventually heal. There will be those that dont want peace as they will never forget what has been done but they will eventually go away. There is no doubt that there is evil in this world, and always will be, but I for one want to do everything I can not to be part of it. I want my great country to wake up and realize that we are all stuck on this planet together so we might as well make the best out of it.




posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 04:05 PM
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Its to late to repair our reputation all we can do is admit our errors and try to build a new relationship from scratch if we spend time and money trying to fix the reputation that has been torn apart we will only end up hated a little less , frustrated more and broke beyond means of recovery.


START FROM SCRATCH AND HEADE THE WORDS OF THOSE WHO ARE TRYING TO HELP US GET BACK IN THE SADDLE.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 05:06 PM
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Man, the mored I read such stuff as what I'm seeing in this thread, the more I wish we hadn't been such bullies back in the '40's when it wasn't bullyism because the rest of the world benefited from the "bullyism"

We didn'g go into Iraq to "liberate" any darned body. That crap was just propaganda BS for the limp-wristed hand-wringing liberals who take coucil in fear and nothing else. The only way to pacify them even for a few days is try and put an humanitarian spin on it. Sure, Iraq was liberated from a murderous despot, but that wasn't the primary concern, anymore than WWII was to liberate the Germans from Hitler.
But again, as it was our country that got hit and not Paris or Bonn, who cares? We are supposed to take it on the chin, just as we've done for years, and do nothing. You don't like us because we are hitting back? Too bad. The more I read crap like what I've read in this thread, the less I care what the rest of the world thinks. We aren't the ones who should be ashamed.

When I read purely shallow minded crap like someone saying we are not liked because our leader is a Christian and reflects the majority of Americans in that regard, but doesn't bother saying anything about theocracies that will behead another human because he isn't a Muslim, or will slay the man's family in front of him because he won't renounce Christianity and go back to Islam, that makes me realize that my country need not try and get in step with the rest of the world. If the rest of the world doesn't like us because we haven't fallen into secularlism with them, tough. Funny, they might not like us because of our Christianity, but Europe is about to become an Islamic nation in itself from what many people have told me. Been several years since I've been, so I don't know first hand.

When I read about silly nonsense such as "he looked at me funny, shoot him", I sonder why I even bother to read the thread expecting a rational discussion to bloom, although one might think you'd find beautiful blooms as a result from so much fertilizer. And when one cannot distinguish between a handful of idiots doing stupid things and smiling for the camera while doing it and the official government, or the people for that matter, it becomes glaringly obvious that neither I or my fellow countrymen are the ones who need to do some self-reflection. To get right down to it, Joe, you had no "points" as making rash statements really isn't the same thing as making points. Especially when at the end you suggest the future need of containing China, along with Europe. This is the same Europe that is selling weapons and technology to China? Oh, I get it; if Europe is the one in need of safety, we are no longer bullies. I forgot about that stipulation in the Bully Clause.

Again, when I read a laundry list of vagueries, I don't wonder about my country, but I do worry about some citizens of others.
Are there some out there who think the U.S. is the only country that has to put self-interest first, or should do so? Apparently, because when we do, it's called "unilaterism" (Or, "unilaterialism"). We are called Imperialists and are said we are "liberating the world"; about as screwed up a soup-sandwich statement as I've heard since, well, I don't know how long. Those two thoughts put together equates to, "Whenever the U.S. doesn't do specifically what the rest of the world wants it to do" mentality. Guess what? We can't only be here for the rest of the world's beck and call.

By the way, Indigo, thank God we have had nukes and were the first to make them. Imagine the world had a truly imperialistic country created them first. You do realize, don't you, had that happened, we would not be on the internet discussing this, right? No, of course you don't, but now that I pointed out the obvious, think about it. Now, you understand that once such a genie is out of the bottle, you cannot shove it back in, right? Inj some respects it'd be nice if we could, but on the other hand, we'd be on our 4th world war by now, had it not been for the nuke. One of the few things, also, that might prohibit a despot like "L'ill Kim" from getting stupid in North Korea is the knowledge that we'll retaliate. You do understand that there is a huge difference between the U.S., a country of laws, and North Korea, a country ran by a man, and a mad man at that? Or are you one of those who think that all nations are the same?

By the way, Idigo, I've noticed that no protestor of the WoT has been shot as a treasonist, so what you are talking about in that regard I have no clue. And, by the way, there have been people like you during every step of the hard times this country has had. History seems to repeat itself, and so far, the weak liberal has been on the wrong side of it and always tries that side again. Had the liberal mentality won the day During the Cold War, I'd still be in the military and in Germany keeping them and the French from having to take crash courses in Russian. Fortunately, strong leaders were willing to do the right thing. Even during WWII, there were people who were against the war againt Hitler, the war that you can blame on Chamberlain, who thought appeasement would go far, too. But remember, while you are protesting and hating this country, if you are in this country protesting and hating it, you can do it a lot safer now than you could have before 9/11. We didn't bother doing the hard job in the nineties after we'd bled due to Islamic terrorists, and we paid for it dearly in 2001. So far, I see no rationality in your list, just denial of all the times your mindset has been wrong.

The One area where we might agree is the idea of China having Normal Trade Relations (MFN hasn't been used since about 1998). When you know that someone sees you as their stumbling block in their quest of global hegemony and their military trains as if you are the enemy, why play nicey? But then again, as we are not at war with them, are we to tell Wal Mart not to do billions of dollars of business with them? Being a free market country comes with some iritating problems, one of which is the fact that my cheap sneakers are helping to build a rocket, coupled with nuclear and delivery system info sold by the Clinton bunch, just might hit my country one day. Interesting situation, indeed. Please, though, why don't you write out the game plan that would fix it? No matter which way our government would go would be picked apart by you unless you drive the train!

Indigo, your point number ten is a wee bit convoluted, too, as you say we must give up our rights because "our heros are out there."
Are you meaning to say that because we are at war, we have to endure things such as the Patriot Act, which was written under the Clinton administration? This is a point (if this is what you were trying to say) on which I can empathize, all I can suggest at this time is to maintain your firearms and ammunition; if the government decided to get froggy, there's no need in making it easy. I wouldn't worry about that, however, as it won't be our boys who clamp the lid down on us, but troops from other countries. That having been said...................
has it occured to you that the things you hate about America is out of America's control? Notice our troops are spread out over the world? When the proper event occurs allowing the takeover of the civil government for the purpose of peacekeeping, our guys will not be here so other nations will graciously come to our aide. You see, our guys wouldn't blow your brain out for protesting, or not going indoors after curfew, but an East German would. So, why hate America? Why not turn your hatred toward those who control us, as well as the rest of the industrialized world?

I have to stop now, I've built an appetite from typing this much. I'm sorry I could respond to no more of the great posts, but I'm sure it would have gone equally unliked. I'm such a horrid American!

[edit on 18-1-2005 by Thomas Crowne]



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 06:34 PM
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Two points:

1- Part of our image problem with the rest of the world is that Kerry was making campaign promises (that he could never keep) that we would bring our foreign policy issues to Europe for a thumbs up or down before we acted. As senator Biden said to Europe (and the rest of the world), "Get over the election".

Kerry didn't win, so no one is going to ask you pretty please if it's OK to defend ourselves.


2 - Also, here's a key metric that I didn't see mentioned.

The world is still voting with it's feet that the U.S. is the best place to be.

Until that fact changes, I'll continue to believe that this image nonsense is only that - nonsense.



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 08:18 PM
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Of course we can. Nobody's mad at the Germans anymore...



posted on Jan, 18 2005 @ 08:19 PM
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>>>>>The rest of the world is no different. I have no desire to be the big guy on the block, I have no desire to be the cop on the world beat, but I love the way the same people who benefit and are allowed to allocate governmental recourses in dorections other than defense can't wait for our downfall. This same sentiment may be what caused the Texas tornado comment.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 02:52 AM
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Originally posted by chiS2000
Of course we can. Nobody's mad at the Germans anymore...




AAAHHH but there is mistrust there and in the other two axis powers of the world war erras while they are not persicuted they are denied faith and trust by alot of the world and they have suffered. Germany fell from two strong powers to one complacent power trying to appease people with reform , Russia has backed of the Im stronger and more right policy for the worlds praise and trust but they did so with out reward and now suffer wars in their own lands because weakness has become a major part of their public opinion towards their goverment, and Japan man we dont even hear much from them in the respect we did before the world war erra and cold war erra ended Russia either for that matter. They are all suffering a back seat position and falling from superpower promise just because they are trying to fix something broken beyond repair so I again say dont fix it build anew.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 03:18 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
2 - Also, here's a key metric that I didn't see mentioned.

The world is still voting with it's feet that the U.S. is the best place to be.

Until that fact changes, I'll continue to believe that this image nonsense is only that - nonsense.



Guess what?
That fact has changed.
The world is voting with it's feet.

Look at the decline in immigration to the US in the last couple of years:



2003 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics

The decline in the year 2002 wasn't that great but 2003 was really down a lot.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 03:53 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by centurion1211
2 - Also, here's a key metric that I didn't see mentioned.

The world is still voting with it's feet that the U.S. is the best place to be.

Until that fact changes, I'll continue to believe that this image nonsense is only that - nonsense.





Now wait while your facts are true they are not conclusive in nature you have the right path just not all the information. This info only concludes the decline in incoming persons, but what about the in excess of 5000 us born or previous naturalized citizens who have migrated out of the USA in to Israel in the last year alone we are seeing a decline in presence from with in as well, most of those leaving are not muslims or other ethnic parties we are in a greater majority at war with either, they are Christians, Jews, Catholic just migrating in search and preperation of the fullfillment of faith related prophacies, and some are just leaving in search of change, change from corruption environmental destruction abounding and ecological and natural disasters more are leaving to escape conditions, and or are leaving in hopes of spreading out and experiencing new cultures, those should be counted in this decision as well in the last 1 and in this year we are going to see Christian and Jews and Hebrews migrating on an increased scale to the amount of tens of thousands and this was on the news back in september and or october when the news took and interest in these mass migrations for religous purposes, I even found myself wondering if my faith would be hightened if I were in the holy lands that my savior dwelt and God has chosen for his people , but I realized it doesnt matter its personal preference where you live faith doesnt have borders, some just feel compelled to leave because they believe the furture is better on these holy lands.







Guess what?
That fact has changed.
The world is voting with it's feet.

Look at the decline in immigration to the US in the last couple of years:



2003 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics

The decline in the year 2002 wasn't that great but 2003 was really down a lot.




[edit on 19/1/2005 by drbryankkruta]



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by Trent
I think the belief that the rest of the world hates America comes largely from what you had been told by your own press and gov rather than the actual existance of this hatred.
[edit on 18-1-2005 by Trent]


Trust me it exists. Even here in Canada, America's closest (geographically speaking) ally, there is an enormous amount of resentment towards America.

I personally dont hate America or Americans for that matter. From my standpoint, most of the resentment is directed towards Bush and the resulting American policy.

The biggest mistake America/Bush made in his presidency was the decision to turn his/America's back on the United Nations. By doing so he/America basically said "Screw the rest of the world". You are more alone in the world today as a result of that decision.

Time heals all wounds - but not during the current administration I think.

Peace

--Evil--



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 09:39 AM
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Pres. Bush's visit to Canada was a step in the right direction at least in helping restore some Canada-US relations. I think with time the US will regain its good image.

I think with time anything is possible.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 09:40 AM
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Originally posted by EvolutionEvil

Originally posted by Trent
I think the belief that the rest of the world hates America comes largely from what you had been told by your own press and gov rather than the actual existance of this hatred.
[edit on 18-1-2005 by Trent]


Trust me it exists. Even here in Canada, America's closest (geographically speaking) ally, there is an enormous amount of resentment towards America.

I personally dont hate America or Americans for that matter. From my standpoint, most of the resentment is directed towards Bush and the resulting American policy.

The biggest mistake America/Bush made in his presidency was the decision to turn his/America's back on the United Nations. By doing so he/America basically said "Screw the rest of the world". You are more alone in the world today as a result of that decision.

Time heals all wounds - but not during the current administration I think.

Peace

--Evil--



As an american I totally agree even from the inside looking out I see this being exactly the case, and this is one of the countries that are less agressive in their views they could feel worse like the rest of the world does, opinion of americans has reached such a low that in some countries you nationality will get you killed quicker than your religious beliefs and thats a sad state of affairs when so many would like to be friends but cant because the current situation places them on the wrong side of the fence, and endangers them by association, look at the UK they are getting tore up in the EU over the fact they are so tight and so inline with our policies, and that is only what is it now 28 other countries mad at them right off the bat what about those the UK does not associate with unless they have to how many of those countries hate them and us for the same reasons, we dont even have a full knowledge of how far this reaches in respect to us.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by mwm1331

To the rest of the world I say "America has finally remembered its strength, and once again found the will to use it. Agree or disagree with us we dont really care, but threaten us, our interests, or our true allies, and we will come down on you like a texas tornado."


Its attitudes like yours that justify to BushCo the need for missile defence...and as much as they deny it the eventual weaponization of space. America knows it is pissing off the world likely beyond the point of no return. America carries a big stick, but does not walk softly anywhere.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase
America's image was tarnished by the war in Vietnam and it was able to recover from that.

It should also recover from the war in Iraq but I doubt it will happen under the administration responsible for the war that led to the negative image of the US.

There may be another four years of negative attitudes directed towards the US government.


BushCo's re-election signalled to the world that the American people either don't know what the world thinks or doesn't care....either scenario is scary.



posted on Jan, 19 2005 @ 10:32 AM
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Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by centurion1211
2 - Also, here's a key metric that I didn't see mentioned.

The world is still voting with it's feet that the U.S. is the best place to be.

Until that fact changes, I'll continue to believe that this image nonsense is only that - nonsense.



Guess what?
That fact has changed.
The world is voting with it's feet.

Look at the decline in immigration to the US in the last couple of years:



2003 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics

The decline in the year 2002 wasn't that great but 2003 was really down a lot.


One important fact which seems to be left out of those numbers is the Illegal immigration which is far higher then even the census numbers. The Illegal immigration numbers are far from declining.

Legal or Illegal its still immigration



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