High IQ members and the nature of intelligence

IQ is a fickle mistress... just because you are high in the order does not mean you are better than others.

Myself... I have an IQ of 167. But what does that say about me? I am artistic; I draw, paint, sculpt, carve... things along the lines of HR Gieger, but with a McFarlane style (twisted, with lots of detail).

I don't try to judge others, and I am open minded to new experiences or ideas.

I try to grow.

This may not answer your question... and I am sorry.

Funny... reading the posts, it seems we are all in agreement, that an IQ test is not a good standard to measure one's intelligence. We need to develope a common sense test!

Indigo_Child, I've had my "intelligence quotient" (I *really* hate that term) tested on many different occasions: in school, by employers, you name it. The tests were all in the 165 range.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
how does it affect your way of thinking,

I have a pathological need to understand the workings of an entire system in order to understand its individual steps. I'm lousy at explaining things to other people, because I "see" things in my head as a entirety; I can't explain to someone how to follow the steps from A to B to C, because I have a tendency to jump from A to E.

I also am intensely ADD, and have the attention span of a gnat. I tend to lose my car keys about every third day, and my cell phone is constantly in need of a charge.

your view of life,

Life is precious and sacred, a gift from God, and no human has the right to take another life.

morals, ethics, values, spirituality, tolerance, relationships,

These views were formed by my Christian faith; has nothing to do with IQ or the lack thereof.

emotions, communication and social skills,

I get easily frustrated with people who don't make the same mental leaps that I do. My social skills suck; I'm a true introvert.

creativity.

...is in the eye of the beholder. I have *no* artistic skills, but I make up stories in my head all day (and all night, in my dreams). I also am known to make "creative" shortcuts when solving problems (my math teachers all hated me).

What special mental abilities do you have?

Not sure what you're asking. If you're talking metaphysical/mystical...none.

I also would like your opinion on how you think a person with an IQ of 1000 would be

A genetic freak.

I've worked with people with IQs in the 180s, and they are so far beyond the rest of us, it's ridiculous.

and what you think the nature of intelligence is.

Good genetics, lots of mental stimulation at an early age, and hard work.

The autistic can have certain impressive abilities, but they used to be referred to as "idiot savants".
The intangibles are just as important as the measurable skills. Thomas Edison stressed the importance of willpower and perseverence. Einstein stressed the importance of creativity. Michio Kaku stresses the ability to draw parallels between the simple and the complex.
These are non-measurable abilities which separate genius from intelligence.

I'll not trouble you with anecdotes about my own intellect. I'll just say that I'm not as dumb as you think and not as smart as I think. Truth be told- most of the world may be accurately described that way.

No Indigo_Child, I do not believe that intelligence is pre-determined.
You asking such almost has me believing that you believe in pre-determination or theories of the kind.

But hey.
Don't mind me, my thoughts on the nature of intelligence fluctuates between 1-10 and that it is not something that is pre-determined, but something that is merely exercised.



seekerof

Sandge, will you elaborate on the 180 group for us. I know what you mean about the pathological need to understand everything independently. I normally do not explain concepts as articulately, coherently and clearing as I can think of them in my own solitude. Yeah, my social skills suck too.

However, while many seem to be claiming intelligence is relative. I don't think that is true. There are just some who are very intelligent, like Einstein, and Einstein basically worked out the nature of space-time, energy and gravity in his mind. Surely, he can be said to be a true genius.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

I think this is a really interesting post, with the potential to inform some people. Thanks to the poster for this.

Indigo
My IQ tests didn't change and I took them @ 12 and 22. Knowledge will help you on the SAT, but it doesn't help much on IQ tests. The brain can restructure itself, and increase its %used of total, but it can't get smarter than it started. For an example of the brain rerouting programs to restore functionality, read a book titled "The Man with the Shattered World" about a man named Luria if I remember right. It's about a man with a traumatic head wound, who couldn't remember more than a few seconds, who trains hiimself to write a book over a number of decades.

Worldwatcher
The example of a farmer is interesting, because I would say farmers are generally more evolutionarily viable than city folk(functionally 'smarter'). A lot of farmers know more than they let on, because a lot of farmers read books, and solve problems every day on the farm, to keep their mind sharp. In survival situations, and by classic average child calculations, farmers are way ahead of the curve. IQ fortunately is random to some extent, and genetic to some extent. This means sometimes it pops up and gets bred in where there was no high inteligence.

Just out of curiosity, why is everyone shy about their inteligence? I think it's because we still live in a society that feels a certain prejudice against the feverishly inteligent. I tested two times and scored in the top 1/10th of one percent both times. I agree that mensa is a bore, and FYI a good portion of their members reside in prison. Inteligence seems to bring with it the mark of the leper in societies round the world. Common men regard sages with suspicion, it's always been the way, ever since such distinctions between men existed.

There are tangible benefits to inteligence. The top speed of concept comparison goes up, you have more calculations per second, like the processor of a high end computer versus a calculator. The number of available memory slots goes up. Some geniuses are capable of a memory trick, utilizing visualization and memorization to create an imaginary storage facility, in their mind's eye, where they keep all their information safe and organized. Complex problem solving, higher mathematics, theoretical anything is practically impossible, read: does not evidence itself, below the IQ marker of 100. Judgement is impaired by low IQ.

Social skills are somewhat related to IQ, but it appears more so to instinct. The subconcious probably maintains tabs if not complete control on facial gestures, and the subconcious doesn't seem to play a large part in IQ development. Indeed, I've met some feral humans in my time who were quite cunning, charming, sociable, miscreants none the less, but successful miscreants. I agree with all who said it, IQ has no relationship whatsoever to success in modern society.

In fact, IQ seems to be linked firmly to insanity, and that's definitely not good. It appears to me that society is suckling the mediocre and stupid while driving the inteligent mad. That's a recipe for species devolution if I ever heard one.

MK
You're absolutely right! We use tools good! Smart people are the descendants of that one chimpanzee who always managed to fashion the perfect termite extraction wand from nearby twigs. Makes me proud, damn proud.

I have a high IQ, Don't know exactly what it is. (In 2nd grade I took a placement test scored in the top 98th percentile of 6th graders, they also tested IQ but wouldn't tell me what I scored only that It was well above average) I did however score a 98 on the asvab. In my experience, that hyper intelligence is more of a curse than a gift.
I say this because while I was always "smart" I didn't have the common sense god gave a moth. My whole life I have known I was smart and done stupid things, while I've broken this cycle there is nothing more frustrating than knowing you are smart and screwing up constantly. It's also extremelly frustrating when your brain kicks into high gear and you are thinking so hard and so fast you can't articulate what is going on in your own head. I have a hard time sleeping and focusing on a task because I am easilly bored.

Conclusion: Being smart sucks.

When I was young they didn't have gifted classes in Arkansas so they did the next worse thing, they started making me skip grades. I got so sick of being the youngest, smallest and dorkiest kid in class I quit as soon as I could and took the GED test. Passed with flying colors on my first attempt.

I very much agree with whats being said here, Your IQ has very little to do with the quality of your life. Look at John Nash. The man was a mathmatical genius and about as looney as they come. Ron Howard made a movie about his life called, "A Beautiful Mind." and if you've seen it you'll understand what i'm saying.

I suppose a high IQ would be preferrable to being Forest Gump, But Forest seemed awful happy to me

Love and light my friends,

Wupy

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
That would be "burst your bubble" I know, I know, it's rather cheap to correct someones grammar. However, I am indicating this to you to illustrate one aspect of intelligence; verbal. Further, If I'm am not mistaken the correlation between IQ and choronlogical age becomes lesser, to the point of negligible, after adult age. It is considered that by the age of 20 or so, a person is fully mentally developed and will not develop any further.

However, this is actually incorrect, as recent studies have shown that the brain is like a muscle that can be trained later in life too. However, I am sure there is some biologically limiting factors too. For instance, after a certain crucial age, growth hormone decreases and it becomes more difficult to gain muscles.

OMG, I used break instead of burst, the world is going to end.

Well you are mistaken, I took that statement exactly from dictionary.com. No one ever said that after 20 your brain doesn't develop any further. Most writers produce their best work in the late forties.

By the way

However, I am sure there is some biologically limiting factors too

should be "there are some," hey I am just continuing what you started.

Here are some of the mental special abilities:

1. Photographic memory
2. Speed reading
3. complex mental Arithmetic
4. The ability to rotate objects, maps, landscapes in the minds eye, or even being able to visualize the structure of DNA.
5. Rapid thinking. E.g. Coping in a real-time debate or war
6. Ability to plan far ahead. E.g. Chess
7. Concentration power

If there are more, please feel free to mention them.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Writers produce their best work in their forties because they have experience with the language, they are comfortable in their voice, and they have been thoroughly trained by the critics whips.

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Writers produce their best work in their forties because they have experience with the language, they are comfortable in their voice, and they have been thoroughly trained by the critics whips.

Yep, also because they have large base of knowledge to draw their writings from.

Finally someone who understands what I am talking about.

Surf

There are three attributes for people, genius, talent, and luck. Genius does what it must. Talent does what it can. Exceptional talent can easily outpace genius, and visa versa. In general, a high IQ, as many members point out, signifies the potential for genius. In both cases of high IQ/Genius and exceptional talent, the brain tends to focus on that area of genius or talent, often leaving the mundane aspects of life forgotten. Luck, on the other hand, does nothing. Which is why I'd much rather be lucky than smart or talented... genius and talent take effort, luck doesn't.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Luck, on the other hand, does nothing. Which is why I'd much rather be lucky than smart or talented... genius and talent take effort, luck doesn't.

Then again, luck can run out, especially when you really need it.

Surf

Skeptic
Luck isn't genetic as far as I know. At least if you're smart there's a chance you could pass it on to your kids, and give them a slight edge. Hooray for evolution, right?

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Writers produce their best work in their forties because they have experience with the language, they are comfortable in their voice, and they have been thoroughly trained by the critics whips.

Yes, and therefore we should make the distinction between knowledge and intelligence? It appears the normal measuring conventions of intelligence, academic profiency, social profiency and indeed the profiency on an intelligence test are skills that one can learn.

However, if it was so easy to learn intelligence, then we would all be Einstein. So, obviously there is something like "real" intelligence and we do not have a systematic and empirical way of measuring it.


[edit on 17-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by astral_ice
In my experience, that hyper intelligence is more of a curse than a gift.
I say this because while I was always "smart" I didn't have the common sense god gave a moth. My whole life I have known I was smart and done stupid things, while I've broken this cycle there is nothing more frustrating than knowing you are smart and screwing up constantly.

Well, if its any consolation i know exactly what you're talking about. Really though, woe is us? I can't even begin to imagine how some people get around. Every problem I've ever made for myself by overthinking has been worth it because thats one of the things i've been given that sets me apart. It's a part of who you are- you can't afford to hate it.

I think I've identified the problem though. In my case at least, I've always been accustomed to knowing every little detail of how something was going to work. If I didn't have this luxury, I'd be completely lost in the activity in question.
The answer is basically to take the process forgranted. No matter how complex it may be, think of it as something so incredibly simple that it involves no technique or form.

Perfect example: you're a few dozen feet above the ground straddling the top log of an obstacle. Your drill instructor says to put your left arm over the right side while kicking your legs in the opposite direction. You reasonably know that there is a high probability of falling, and you can't visualize the movement to make sure you get it right. What do you do?
It's not even hard- it's so simple that doesn't even occur to you as an option- you just obey on faith and put your left arm to the right while sifting your legs the opposite way. And wait a minute.. shouldn't I be falling? I'll be dmned, it worked!

Originally posted by WyrdeOne
Skeptic
Luck isn't genetic as far as I know. At least if you're smart there's a chance you could pass it on to your kids, and give them a slight edge. Hooray for evolution, right?

Not neccesarily. I read about a Indian guy in my pysch book who memorized all of Shakespeare's works and sonnets and his father did something to do with a lot of memorizing too. I wouldn't be so sure that intelligence isn't genetic.

Surf

Not neccesarily. I read about a Indian guy in my pysch book who memorized all of Shakespeare's works and sonnets and his father did something to do with a lot of memorizing too. I wouldn't be so sure that intelligence isn't genetic.

That comes under special mental abilities. All of the skills can be learned. For example, I could read at 2000 words per minute, a skill I learnt from a speed reading course. It looks like a gift of immense intelligence to others. However, I know it is nothing more than applying a learned skill.

[edit on 17-1-2005 by Indigo_Child]

I don't think that a high I.Q. and real intelligence can relate to each other.

As a teenager, I took some I.Q. tests (teacher pressures) and scored a 159 and I've done some really stupid things since then!

The test administrators told me that I had the potential to become anything that I wanted.

"Smart" me, I quit school and got a job, ran into some trouble with the law and never finished college (I got a GED and entered a community college).

Now that I gotten older and my I.Q. is less than my teenage years, I'm enrolled back into college, 25 years later!, for crying out loud!

So, I.Q. and intelligence are two, totally different things!