Refugees 2016

65million, that's the number I got bombarded with today.
And it is terrible, I know I'm very lucky to be born in a wealthy, save country.
I feel ashamed and helpless, when I see these cruel commercials about starving children.
At least I used to, but after today there is a certain overkill effect kicking in.
Sure I still am for helping, building new wells, or doing whatever can be done, so they can have access to water.
Hand out anti-baby pills, so they don't get born to nothing, but a few years of meaningless suffering.

But I catch myself more and more often wondering: why the # do you not work for a brighter future yourself?
Have we created this mess ourself? Does help make helpless? Shouldn't they protest their corrupt governments instead of standing in line waiting for the free food delivery?

I know it sounds very cynical and I am. I don't want them to bring their problems and their mentality here.
But I also have no idea how this mess could be fixed.
It just seems some governments like kenia, use the poverty of their citizens to extract money from the "western world".
That's just like paying for hostages, you can't do that.

But what can be done? And what's your opinion?

"But what can be done? And what's your opinion? "

In reality, nothing,

In fantasy IF everyone "woke up" and decided to not be selfish and greedy.
Or indifferent, then the world would be a better place.


The way things are set up, most people are just broke enough, to be unable to help others.

Back in the late 1700s, the american colonies were at a boiling point and civil war kicked off.

So, what happened was most innocent people in america gave up, and ran to china becau...wait..no, thats not how it went..

oh, thats right. they people stood together and overthrew the oppressive regime, banded together, and created a constituional republic after victory. it was bloody, and lots was sacrificed, but the end result was a people free.


So now a different part of the world is going through their growing pains.

...why the hell is the west taking all the capable fighting men away from their place. set up a safe zone at the edge of the country at best so they can regroup...but if you want a country by and for the people..that ain't free..go fight for it.

I am fine with taking women and children away from the battlefields until things cool down. perhaps a *nearby* friendly country.

a reply to: Black_Fox

But if you donate, that's mostly immediate medical help, or food.

I truly believe the focus needs to be shifted, if I help then it should go to local inventors, those who really know the circumstances and have an idea how their community can change, get self sufficient and in a long run capable of taking part in a national and later global market.
Otherwise they stay dependant forever.

a reply to: SaturnFX

So you suggest no more economical asylum? Period?

I kind of agree, why don't they stay and fight? It's their home, why do they expect others, strangers to fix it for them?

People who suffer do so because they have no power. The less power they have, the more suffering they are prone to.

Look at countries where people on average more than the average person in a country like the U.S. How much power does the individual have over their own life compared to how much power the government and ruling groups has? Not much.

Because no one would choose to suffer, and most people would chose not to let their neighbor suffer. Most people ARE good. We can't eliminate suffering from the world entirely, but we can minimize it by giving people individual power, freedom and opportunity.

So, what can we do? We have shown we have the power and capability to topple unjust governments in other countries. But we failed to transfer that power to the people. So now there is severe refugee crisis in Europe because of this. No power to the people = continued suffering.

a reply to: Peeple

Any mod on duty for this thread?

I sent a post to it five minutes ago and it has yet to appear in the thread, in New or Recent.

a reply to: SaturnFX

So now a different part of the world is going through their growing pains.

To asseverate what's happening in Syria & parts of Iraq as "growing pains" is so patently a bunch of nonsense I'm lost for words, really.


You're comparing 1700s civil war with Muskets & cannons to a full blown genocide with bombs, acid, tanks, and fully automatic assault rifles.


If the difference alludes you, you're nothing more than a buffoon.

Americans are generous. But, money gets tied up in Foreign Govt Red Tape, pilfered by corrupt handlers, and high employee salaries of the so called charity organizations.

Maybe if people banded together for a common cause, and side stepped the Greedy Charities and Foundations, then maybe something would get done. But, Im not impressed with the Starvation Army and greedy Goodwill places. Churches offer more help to a neighborhood. I owned a restaurant next to a Salvation Army, I could tell you stories.

a reply to: Peeple

What can be done? What's my opinion?

I read an article today on USA Today's website and they spun out that same number. They listed Syria, Burundi, Sudan, Burma, Nigeria and Central American countries, 3, I can't recall which ones.
It breaks out like this:
Syria............Failed State/Civil War
Burundi........Failed State/Civil Unrest over election results
Sudan..........Failed State/Civilians fleeing unrest
Burma..........Failed State/Ethnic cleansing, (slaughter of Muslim minority population)
Central America.......Failed States/Narco Gangs, government corruption.

What's the common denominator?
Failed States.

Solution..........UN needs to declare these as failed states and take these "regions" over by force if necessary, find, and prosecute the evil doers and administer these regions as UN Protectorate Colonies for the period of time necessary to create, develop and install functioning civil governments.

BTW: Libya and Somalia need to be added to the list.

How damned hard is that?

a reply to: SaturnFX

Staying and fighting sounds like a great option unless planes are dropping bombs on your head. I don't think any amount of hand guns or AR-15's are going to be too effective at standing your ground in that situation.

a reply to: Peeple

What to do?

Vote for lawmakers that speak against interventionist foreign policy.

a reply to: TonyS

I honestly don't believe there are enough soldiers to take them and hold them.

But thanks for the list

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Peeple

Any mod on duty for this thread?

I sent a post to it five minutes ago and it has yet to appear in the thread, in New or Recent.

I think you posted it in the Trump Wall thread, Alien.

originally posted by: Hazardous1408

originally posted by: Aliensun
a reply to: Peeple

Any mod on duty for this thread?

I sent a post to it five minutes ago and it has yet to appear in the thread, in New or Recent.

I think you posted it in the Trump Wall thread, Alien.

I believe that you are right! Thanks

a reply to: Peeple

If we do not give them purpose in the West then they will have to take responsibility and fix things themselves.

I made a thread a few days ago on Sustainable Migration/refugee solution for EU that was trying discuss this.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

You should have right to shelter, food, basic healthcare and basic education. Purpose is not a right it is something you create with others.

The countries should be able to protect their social systems from people who cannot be hired or integrated in their host country.

You're not "lucky" to be born in a safe country.

1. The house we built is ours, and it was built with blood sweat and tears.

2. We earn what houses we're born in, there is a spiritual side to things.

3. What we have is our children's inheritances, and we don't give them away.

a reply to: VivreLibre

So, what can we do? We have shown we have the power and capability to topple unjust governments in other countries. But we failed to transfer that power to the people. So now there is severe refugee crisis in Europe because of this. No power to the people = continued suffering.

When the society is built up on tribal power pyramid you can topple people for all eternity and it will still be the same failed power pyramid since you are only replacing one dictator for another.

The people need to learn new ideas on how to build healthy societies. A lesson the west also needs with democracy moving away from the people to corporate board rooms.

a reply to: Kali74

Depends on Terrain. The Taliban in Afghanistan have been withstanding multinational invaders for nearly a decade and a half. Sympathizers from other countries have sent them a little bit of weapons, and a few volunteers-- kind of like The Empire of France did for the USA.

I think the Taliban has made do with asault weapons and mines. After they depleted their mine inventory it has been IEDs.

But yeah, assault weapons are the backbone of their force presence

a reply to: Kali74

Staying and fighting sounds like a great option unless planes are dropping bombs on your head. I don't think any amount of hand guns or AR-15's are going to be too effective at standing your ground in that situation.

Depends on Terrain. The Taliban in Afghanistan have been withstanding multinational invaders for nearly a decade and a half. Sympathizers from other countries have sent them a little bit of weapons, and a few volunteers-- kind of like The Empire of France did for the USA.

I think the Taliban has made do with asault weapons and mines. After they depleted their mine inventory it has been IEDs.

But yeah, assault weapons are the backbone of their force presence