"I Refuse to Support U.S. Armed Drone Policy": Army Chaplain Reads Resignation Letter to Obama

a reply to: Aliensun

He could have gone quietly, but why not do it publicly?
Maybe it will make a difference to one person one time one day, and they'll decide not to shoot the little kid in the head.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Gosh, what a nice sweet thing you are, as nasty as those you accuse, glad you don't have a gun, I know where your cross hairs would be aimed

/shrug

See how you are? Speak for yourself. I do have a gun, locked in a cabinet. The one I use, though, is shaped like a keyboard.

And I am a very sweet person, but I'm not exactly a shrinking violet.

Your response is a reportable insult. I'm not being nasty - and I am addressing political and religious issues. Did I name you? No. I named ISIS, WBC, Ted Cruz, G W Bush, and Barack Obama.

You might try reading "Dirty Wars" by Jeremy Scahill.

Fundamental bully back at yah buzzy

Nope! Social Justice warrior, pacifist, idealistic, bleeding heart, eggheaded tree-hugger and I have every right to state my opinions.
Sorry you don't like it. But someone's got to say something.

No one is forcing you to be a defensive apologist Christian. Yet.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

We could have done without the drama of his quitting and the poster you put up.


We must wonder what thin line there is between just going quietly and going with violence as in Orlando. Difference causes and different extremes, granted, but both keyed to getting the public's attention for one's actions.

I couple such acts with more and more ATS posters announcing that they are back, "Did you miss me?" sort of posts. Or "It's my birthday!" posts. Too many people are seeking attention today solely because they see themselves as "ME!" and we should be taking notice of them solely as a person.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
This man has resigned his commission as an Army Chaplain in protest to the foreign policy of the current administration. He is a UNITARIAN UNIVERSALIST, a faith-based community that accepts ALL COMERS, does not believe in the silly "Trinity" thing, and does not believe that only some people will enjoy an afterlife. They do believe in A Supreme Divinity.

They are the ONLY Western religion that makes sense. In my opinion.

He is also the founder of the Veterans for Peace organization in Hudson Valley (NY).

I found this article on Democracy Now:
"I Refuse to Support U.S. Armed Drone Policy": Army Chaplain Reads Resignation Letter to Obama and want to share it.

This is truly Christ-like behavior, it is true to what your Jesus would have said.
Sadly, many many many "Christians" (especially some named Ted Cruz and George Bush and Barack Obama) can't seem to fathom the concept that murdering other people is wrong.

Here is what the chaplain said:

"I resign because I refuse to support U.S. armed drone policy," Antal wrote. "The Executive Branch continues to claim the right to kill anyone, anywhere on earth, at any time, for secret reasons, based on secret evidence, in a secret process, undertaken by unidentified officials. I refuse to support this policy of unaccountable killing."

Army Chaplain. Not a "Christian" - a real follower of the message of peace, love, and kindness.

Perhaps as time passes, more people will get on board. Or - not...they enjoy telling others which bathroom to use, who to date or love, what to eat and drink, and what they are not allowed to do. I suppose they would consider themselves "enablers" if they baked a stupid cake for a fleeting celebration of happiness between two human beings.

All you fundamentalist bullies, butt-in-skis, high and mighty decree deliverers, refuseniks to live and let live....who don't want to share, who don't want others to be happy.....whether ISIS or WBC - all of you....sick, sick people.

H L Mencken:

Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.

and especially pertinent to this election cycle:

Giving every man a vote has no more made men wise and free than Christianity has made them good.

So, here's to Chris Antal and H L Mencken. We need more men like them....

Here's the full letter of resignation from this good and right Reverend:

“Dear Mr. President:

“I hereby resign my commission as an Officer in the United States Army.

“I resign because I refuse to support U.S. armed drone policy. The Executive Branch continues to claim the right to kill anyone, anywhere on earth, at any time, for secret reasons, based on secret evidence, in a secret process, undertaken by unidentified officials. I refuse to support this policy of unaccountable killing.

“I resign because I refuse to support U.S. nuclear weapons policy. The Executive Branch continues to invest billions of dollars into nuclear weapons, which threaten the existence of humankind and the earth. I refuse to support this policy of terror and mutually assured destruction.

“I resign because I refuse to support U.S. policy of preventive war, permanent military supremacy and global power projection. The Executive Branch continues to claim extra-constitutional authority and impunity from international law. I refuse to support this policy of imperial overstretch.

“I resign because I refuse to serve as an empire chaplain.

I cannot reconcile these policies with either my sworn duty to protect and defend America and our constitutional democracy or my covenantal commitment to the core principles of my religion faith.

These principles include: justice, equity and compassion in human relations, a free and responsible search for truth, a commitment to the democratic process, and the inherent worth and dignity of every person.

“Respectfully submitted,

"Christopher John Antal"

And? He signed up, tried it out, and didn't like it so he quit. He felt it necessary to explain his reasoning to the world but likely the world doesn't care what he reason is. He does not make policy and is not responsible for such. As a sky pilot, he is not in the [mortal] chain of command; he is kind of a cheerleader/grief counselor/good listener/ombudsman for the troops. His departure will change nothing of substance.

He should now go back to his hometown and tend to his flock in peace. Maybe the resignation letter was a resume builder for his next position or maybe it was just another 'good idea' that many have at 2am that doesn't seem so good in the morning.

I personally wish him well.

a reply to: pteridine

And?

And....????? I think what he did was noble...that's all. I think if everyone around the world were able to think that far, we'd all be better off.

I'm not going to second guess his motives. I totally understand his motives, and I agree with him.

No "oath" is worth selling your soul.
I understand that. I have quit jobs on grounds of my own morals, and would do it again. Some things just aren't worth the trade off. I do support our troops - I am married to a veteran who was emotionally scarred by what he had to do....

I do not support war. Ever. At any time. Or corruption.

a reply to: Aliensun

Why? Did it hurt you to read this OP and see the poster?
Those things are real. If you don't want to know about them, then don't come looking....that solves everything.

?



or wait.
No - it doesn't.
I can't understand how this man's actions would offend you or anyone else. He made a decision based on his gut instincts. He was brave enough to do it. Would you be?

I think you would - so why do you not want to "hear about it"?

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

I'm glad people like you exist buzzy, and your desire for peace while very idealistic, at times completely impractical, it's quite beautiful. I hope in the same breath we have mutual respect, and that it's a good thing people like me exist. I'm not going to give a large run down of the reasons why.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It makes a HUGE difference, because it shows that Christianity is a religion of peace and does not justify taking someone else's life away, just because they are different.

It basically shows the CORE difference between Christianity and Bible on one side, and Islam and Kuran on the other.

If you seriously think, there's no difference in killing in the name of Allah and just killing to score political points/ earn more money, then you are not being logical, and you're just trying to push an agenda.

Which then proves that all this bashing on Christianity is totally biased and pretty much, just a bunch of BS.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Actually its not murder if you do it to defend someone. Its justifiable homicide then. its only murder if you are malicious and cruel And theres no doubt that the people who get droned will kill people eventually.

originally posted by: Nikola014
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

It makes a HUGE difference, because it shows that Christianity is a religion of peace and does not justify taking someone else's life away, just because they are different.

It basically shows the CORE difference between Christianity and Bible on one side, and Islam and Kuran on the other.

If you seriously think, there's no difference in killing in the name of Allah and just killing to score political points/ earn more money, then you are not being logical, and you're just trying to push an agenda.

Which then proves that all this bashing on Christianity is totally biased and pretty much, just a bunch of BS.

Murder is defined in the bible. Soldiers arent committing murder if they are following orders and are not cold blooded in the killing of the enemy. remember What the soldier asked Jesus and that should be pretty clear.

a reply to: yuppa

And theres no doubt that the people who get droned will kill people eventually.

Wait.

What?
"The people who get droned" will be dead. They won't "eventually kill people."

It is their survivors and sympathizers and children and families and friends who will be become killers bent on revenge.
The argument is this: How about if we stop killing and creating via those killings people who will get involved in terrorism.....
based on what has been done to them.
??

Please.

There really is no excuse for rampant killing. None. "Collateral damage" is what is bullsh!t. "Oh sorry" is what is bullsh!t.

Obama has done an excellent job de-escalating where he could.
The Obama Doctrine

Read this, yuppa, and then tell us what you might have done had you inherited this monstrosity.....

a reply to: Nikola014

If you seriously think, there's no difference in killing in the name of Allah and just killing to score political points/ earn more money, then you are not being logical, and you're just trying to push an agenda.

Which then proves that all this bashing on Christianity is totally biased and pretty much, just a bunch of BS.

Interesting take on it.

But....no.
As a matter of fact, I think Pope Francis is really really cool. I agree with what he says.
Do you?

a reply to: TechniXcality

I respect you, too - and I also respect service people. I thank them whenever I meet them. I think what this chaplain did was brave.


Thanks for chiming in, Tech. That means a lot to me. We've managed to establish a dialogue - and that is so very important!

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Wtf is with you people and Christianity

Get a grip on yourselves

a reply to: Nikola014

It makes a HUGE difference, because it shows that Christianity is a religion of peace and does not justify taking someone else's life away, just because they are different.

It basically shows the CORE difference between Christianity and Bible on one side, and Islam and Kuran on the other.

I disagree.

Respectfully.

Many "Christians" have harrased, killed, brutalized, insulted, demeaned, rejected, and 'condemned' people who piss them off. See: Abortion clinic bombings. Westboro Baptist Church. Teen killed by parents in church. etc. Refusal to acknowledge. etc etc and blah blah blah.........

"The Bible" is an antiquated aggregation of opinions, myths, and propaganda. It lacks continuity, consistent authorship, veracity, and sense.

Same as the Koran and the Torah and the Talmud.
The Abrahamic Religions have become toxic. Don't pretend they haven't. Since the dawn of time......


So - you've never heard of the Inquisition?


If you need me to, I can point you to ATS threads that address these happenings.....

a reply to: onequestion

Wtf is with you people and Christianity

Get a grip on yourselves

Excuse me? Perhaps you have neglected the fact that many "self-styled" and "self-described" Christians are ugly and violent and judgmental and nasty and selfish and rude.........?????

I have a perfectly good grip. It is what it is.

What burr is under your saddle now?

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: yuppa

And theres no doubt that the people who get droned will kill people eventually.

Wait.

What?
"The people who get droned" will be dead. They won't "eventually kill people."

It is their survivors and sympathizers and children and families and friends who will be become killers bent on revenge.
The argument is this: How about if we stop killing and creating via those killings people who will get involved in terrorism.....
based on what has been done to them.
??

Please.

There really is no excuse for rampant killing. None. "Collateral damage" is what is bullsh!t. "Oh sorry" is what is bullsh!t.

Obama has done an excellent job de-escalating where he could.
The Obama Doctrine

Read this, yuppa, and then tell us what you might have done had you inherited this monstrosity.....

OH i see i MISTYPED i meant WOULD had Killed people. Sorry. They just dont drone you for funsies.

And If I was president. Yeah. ID make a proclamation to the entire world and UN. If you are a terrorist and you have a family who supports you in that I WILL take it out on your family and imprison you(if you live and are captured) instead for life so you suffer knowing it was your fault your family was killed.

Se a Terrorist likkes to leave behind a son to carry on after he is killed in jihad. So how better to stop that then to eliminate their Sons?

Im not above going BELOW their level to get them back.

a reply to: yuppa

Okay, typo excused.

Still - if you are thinking that little kids will grow up to be terrorists and killers, you are probably correct, because that is what they are learning they must do! I hope you will see that for what it is.

Angry people raise angry kids....angry killers of angry people create even angrier kids....

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: yuppa

Okay, typo excused.

Still - if you are thinking that little kids will grow up to be terrorists and killers, you are probably correct, because that is what they are learning they must do! I hope you will see that for what it is.

Angry people raise angry kids....angry killers of angry people create even angrier kids....

You do have a point there. I coudnt handle the presidency as you can see for good reason though. I was raised to finish the fight with any means at my disposal. And the kids learn to kill because their parents teach them what their Imams taight them before and when daddy gets whacked he falls back on the stuff his father taught him.

Im not angry..i just believe in using tactics so nasty they woudnt even consider doing the action out of fear.

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Raggedyman

Gosh, what a nice sweet thing you are, as nasty as those you accuse, glad you don't have a gun, I know where your cross hairs would be aimed

/shrug

See how you are? Speak for yourself. I do have a gun, locked in a cabinet. The one I use, though, is shaped like a keyboard.

And I am a very sweet person, but I'm not exactly a shrinking violet.

Your response is a reportable insult. I'm not being nasty - and I am addressing political and religious issues. Did I name you? No. I named ISIS, WBC, Ted Cruz, G W Bush, and Barack Obama.

You might try reading "Dirty Wars" by Jeremy Scahill.

Fundamental bully back at yah buzzy

Nope! Social Justice warrior, pacifist, idealistic, bleeding heart, eggheaded tree-hugger and I have every right to state my opinions.
Sorry you don't like it. But someone's got to say something.

No one is forcing you to be a defensive apologist Christian. Yet.

Buzzy
Its a sad and terrible situation
I asked if you had a policy to end this problem?

I totally understand why this man quit his job, your angst at the situation.
Its depressing the world we live in.

Its easy to rant and rail at the lack of justice we all face on a daily basis, the issue, what can we do about it.
Post a thread condemning everyone without providing a solution.

You know what I dislike, people who preach that something is wrong without providing a solution, its easy to soapbox, its harder to provide a solution to the issue.

The christian ideal of peace is a christian ideal, Jesus said be prepared to die for peace, Jesus was talking expressly to those who would follow Him, not the world, not the non christian, you cant have it both ways
The US is not a theocracy, US citizens vote these warmongers in constantly, the US live of these peoples misfortunes, guns and oil float the US economy

You rail at christians like Cruz, Bush and Obama, Jesus taught you would know His followers by their actions, their action being the fruit of the Spirit
Galatians:
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love,
joy,
peace,
forbearance,
kindness,
goodness,
faithfulness,
gentleness and
self-control."

Bare in mind that many wolves wear sheeps clothing Mathew 7.15


Idealism is great, unfortunately idealism doesnt stop atrocities, sadly drones dont stop the atrocities either
The US is not a christian country

originally posted by: Klassified

Good and evil are human constructs whose definitions are relative to cultural norms. Even those things we agree as a species are "evil" are based upon survival of the species and adaptation of international norms over time. There is no ultimate arbiter who decides good and evil except us. Therefore, good is what we as a species agree is good, and what we as a species agree is evil. After that, the rest is cultural and societal standard.

In my opinion, if you believe all humans are innately "evil", then you are chief among the "evil", and a detriment to our well being as a species, because that is what you will always strive to find confirmation of, and what will always emanate from you.

I love klassifieds statement here
There is no good or evil, there is just us

As an atheist, what right does a person have to say who is right or wrong