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"I Refuse to Support U.S. Armed Drone Policy": Army Chaplain Reads Resignation Letter to Obama

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posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 05:24 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman


As an atheist, what right does a person have to say who is right or wrong


Your post wasn't too bad, until this part. ^

First of all, I'm not an atheist....
and second of all, you make this same mistake over and over again. Atheists have morals, and one does not need to believe in "God" to do so. The Golden Rule applies to everyone.....

Offering solutions: stop war. Stop sending young men and women to fight each other. Stop retaliating against retaliation that is born out of retaliating for retaliations.

Just plain stop. Behavior is the one thing that we humans can control in ourselves. It would be great if one day you would lose the 'tude and stop thinking (and saying) that atheists and agnostics and non-Christians are "lesser than" you. If the whole world suddenly turned Christian it wouldn't solve everything.

So - what's your solution to stopping the never-ending war and suffering? We have the resources to stop war and suffering. Why do we allow it to continue?





edit on 6/14/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 05:28 AM
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Sounds a good man.

Operation of drones is mostly outsourced to private contractors in the US Military. It's one of the most hated jobs in the entire Air Force. The problem starts is that perfectly good aircraft are retired, and their existing pilots retrained on the MQ-9, the pilots don't want to fly MQ-9s so they leave. Nobody wants the job in the first place because it commands zero respect (rightfully so) and is apparently incredibly boring, so they can't even recruit for those positions.

Only option is to outsource to the Mercen...I mean PMCs
edit on -050005am6kam by Ohanka because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 06:28 AM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Raggedyman


As an atheist, what right does a person have to say who is right or wrong


Your post wasn't too bad, until this part. ^

First of all, I'm not an atheist....
and second of all, you make this same mistake over and over again. Atheists have morals, and one does not need to believe in "God" to do so. The Golden Rule applies to everyone.....

Offering solutions: stop war. Stop sending young men and women to fight each other. Stop retaliating against retaliation that is born out of retaliating for retaliations.

Just plain stop. Behavior is the one thing that we humans can control in ourselves. It would be great if one day you would lose the 'tude and stop thinking (and saying) that atheists and agnostics and non-Christians are "lesser than" you. If the whole world suddenly turned Christian it wouldn't solve everything.

So - what's your solution to stopping the never-ending war and suffering? We have the resources to stop war and suffering. Why do we allow it to continue?






As you will note, I quoted Klassified, it was there opinion, argue that with Klass not me.
I actually think he is right in his own context

and let's not kid ourselves, the golden rule clearly does not apply to everyone, only those who choose it as their moral guide.
You can't speak for everyone and clearly you don't, the world doesn't agree
I do agree with that rule, doesn't mean everyone else does

Solution, stop war, seriously?
That's not an answer, that's a daydream

Now you stup with the attitude, I know atheists and agnostics who are better than me, never suggested I was better, never have. Sounds like you have the superiority complex

Saying stop the wars is not a solution, I don't have a solution, I am not naive enough to think I can have one
Remember the top 10% of the worlds population has 99% of the world wealth, start there I recon

The only way we can solve anything is to get along forgive and move forward, your op doesn't suggest that at all, it's laced with animosity

Go figure



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 06:56 AM
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Frankly they should get rid of all Chaplains. They are a waste of money and resources and have zero worth on the battle field. If your not willing to fight then get out. And if you think armed drones are somehow worse than carpet bombing with a B52 then you need not go anywhere near the military.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 07:10 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad

Why stop there, just feed them up on crystal meth and send them in like the Germans did in WWII
Hell they are not even human onece they put a uniform on

Staggers me the inability of some to think



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 07:18 AM
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a reply to: MrSpad

Chaplains are vital for maintaining morale of the military.

Even secular states with low religious participant rates maintain a Chaplain Corps.

A great many military positions are of no value on the battlefield, but without them the military cannot function on the battlefield.

Do you think it would be wise sending the thousands upon thousands of truck drivers in the Military into the field armed with rifles?

What about non-combat mechanical and engineering personnel?

What about the administrative and rear-area medical personnel?

What about higher-level (Corps and up) command staff?

All these people have received their firearms training, and know how to fight. But if they find themselves in the middle of combat, something has gone horribly wrong, and to send them into the fight unless something has cocked up badly is quite mystifying to say the least.

What you are saying is that anyone who is not on the battlefield is of no value. This is only true in times of total war, the British, Soviets, Germans and anyone else with manpower shortages took anyone they could get, pilots, ship crews, wounded, sick, air force ground staff, administration personnel, gave them a rifle and sent them into battle.

Is the United States in the same position as Germany was in 1944? No, I didn't think so either.
edit on -050007am6kam by Ohanka because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 07:26 AM
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It makes sense that a true Christian would never go to war or support anything remotely related to war.

But it also makes sense that deeply thinking and feeling people would also not, no matter what their religion or lack thereof.

Aside from all this, it is my opinion that the world needs more of these types of people, who consciously object, who stand by their convictions and core beliefs, and have a faith strong enough to withstand the burning flames that might come from doing so.

I don't understand how so many people get swept up in the dogma that war is ever good or that anyone can ever truly win one.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 11:22 AM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity

I think you would find a good argument about christians going to war in some churches, not that I would support it
It's a good argument relating to a persons responsibility to the community and caring about people and encroaching evil

Just saying



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: ~Lucidity
It makes sense that a true Christian would never go to war or support anything remotely related to war.

But it also makes sense that deeply thinking and feeling people would also not, no matter what their religion or lack thereof.

Aside from all this, it is my opinion that the world needs more of these types of people, who consciously object, who stand by their convictions and core beliefs, and have a faith strong enough to withstand the burning flames that might come from doing so.

I don't understand how so many people get swept up in the dogma that war is ever good or that anyone can ever truly win one.


Wow. You would be mistaken. Christians are allowed to go to war to defend their fellow man and the innocent. "turn the other cheek " was not for LIFE THREATENING SITUATIONS. it was for insults and slights. Its a sin to not defend th e innocent and the helpless from harm.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 12:44 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman


The only way we can solve anything is to get along forgive and move forward, your op doesn't suggest that at all, it's laced with animosity


What the hell, man. That's what I said - get along, forgive, move forward. Stop fighting. That is precisely what I suggested!. You're just looking to further insult me now - you called me 'nasty' and a 'fundamental bully.'

Remember that? Yeah...that was awesome.
Hypocrisy much?

Christians who condone war, who want to carpet-bomb other countries and build walls to keep other (even more devout) Christians (who happen to be from Mexico or further points southern) away from their backyards.....are not, according to my understanding of Jesus's message, following what he said.

Anything else?

edit on 6/14/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: yuppa

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
It makes sense that a true Christian would never go to war or support anything remotely related to war.

But it also makes sense that deeply thinking and feeling people would also not, no matter what their religion or lack thereof.

Aside from all this, it is my opinion that the world needs more of these types of people, who consciously object, who stand by their convictions and core beliefs, and have a faith strong enough to withstand the burning flames that might come from doing so.

I don't understand how so many people get swept up in the dogma that war is ever good or that anyone can ever truly win one.


Wow. You would be mistaken. Christians are allowed to go to war to defend their fellow man and the innocent. "turn the other cheek " was not for LIFE THREATENING SITUATIONS. it was for insults and slights. Its a sin to not defend th e innocent and the helpless from harm.


Oh, everyone's "allowed" to.

And you would be mistaken in that some sects are...and some aren't.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: ~Lucidity

well jesus meant all christians not just a few sects.



posted on Jun, 14 2016 @ 08:52 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Raggedyman


The only way we can solve anything is to get along forgive and move forward, your op doesn't suggest that at all, it's laced with animosity


What the hell, man. That's what I said - get along, forgive, move forward. Stop fighting. That is precisely what I suggested!. You're just looking to further insult me now - you called me 'nasty' and a 'fundamental bully.'

Remember that? Yeah...that was awesome.
Hypocrisy much?

Christians who condone war, who want to carpet-bomb other countries and build walls to keep other (even more devout) Christians (who happen to be from Mexico or further points southern) away from their backyards.....are not, according to my understanding of Jesus's message, following what he said.

Anything else?


Yet you rail only against christians

The only way we can solve anything is to get along forgive and move forward, your op doesn't suggest that at all, it's laced with animosity, every post is anti christian

You are a contradiction

Am I, well I dont think so.
I am wise enough to understand that this world is broken and evil takes place, that there are many people who are not christian and some who are, and they will stand up against evil, fight, kill and die for what they believe is right against what is wrong.
Ever see the machine gun preacher, was he wrong to protect children with violence, should he just allow kids to be turned into child soldiers
Blood Diamond, should the West just accept that children are slaves and killers, De Beers the diamond dealers dont care, do they?
So what, should I condemn people who want to help others, defend others, kill others.
Imagine if someone broke into your home, harm you or your children, you have a gun, you hunt?

It seems to me reality is clouded by your idealism
Pull out of the ME and watch women, children, non muslims be slaughtered by ISIS, better a drone than a soldier.
Is it wrong, of course, whats the alternative, I dont know.

Your understanding of Jesus message, I dont think you understand Christs message, just pick and choose what confirms your bias.

Do me a little favour, watch Machine Gun preacher and tell me what that fella done was wrong, I cant truthfully say what he did was wrong.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 07:40 AM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

So what, should I condemn people who want to help others, defend others, kill others.


You have apparently run out of cogent things to say.
No, I don't rail only against Christians. I rail against all of the Abrahamic religions. You just don't notice it.

How about you watch Samanthee Bee:



edit on 6/15/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 09:47 AM
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a reply to: BuzzyWigs
What a contradiction
I ask a few questions, you ignore them all then demand I watch your random YouTube clip, no thanks

How about you answer my questions about your gun, how about you answer my question about machine gun preacher, how about you...
Nah, you won't, you will just make your demands and condemn those who disagree

No different to those you condemn


edit on 15-6-2016 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Did I demand you do anything?

No. I don't make demands on the internet. That's just stupid.

What is it you want to know, about home invaders? Yes, we have some handguns - those are accessories that came with my husband when he was delivered. He is a veteran of the National Guard - a Military Police Sergeant.

Those guns are locked in a cabinet.

Sam Bee is talking about "praying" as the suggested answer to mass killings. Praying doesn't do anything.
I also never condemned you - and wouldn't. That is a thing which is foreign to me, because I don't believe in hell. I'm anti-death penalty.

Now - kindly retract your projections.....I did not demand anything.
I do not "rail against Christians only".
I have not condemned anyone.
I think war is ridiculous and barbaric.
I care very much about the women and children who are victimized by the insanity of ISIS - which is all "based on religion". There are violent Christians, and that is a fact. Some of them murder doctors in churches "in the name of Jesus." Others beat their own kids to death "in the name of Jesus." Still others want to carpet bomb entire populations ("in the name of fighting Muslims who do it in the name of Allah - which is your same "God").

My animosity is against religion. It is against indoctrination.
It is against hatred. And yep - I've told you before, I'm conflicted. The difference is that you see religion and "Jesus" as something good...and I see it (with every bit as valid reason) as a huge problem in our society.

BUT --- you know what the biggest problem of all is?

MENTAL ILLNESS.
ISIS are insane. The people who beat their kid to death are insane. Omar Mateen was insane. Unfortunately, religion is a welcoming harbor and offers a "port in the storm" to those who are insane. Religion also.....

wait for it.....

can cause Mental Illness. I have animosity toward anything that humans do to each other (from indoctrination with fairy tales to blowing up mosques to teaching five-year-olds they must hate Israelis, or "gays", or "Muslims" to flying planes into other peoples' buildings).

The World Trade Centers were blown up and some 7000 people died. The drone program has killed somewhere around 12,000. Can we call that "even steven"? Nope.

It just causes more and more violence. And Evangelical types like John Hagee who wants to bomb Iran and Ted Cruz who wanted to carpet bomb the ME into a "sea of glass" are no better than ISIS..

Not cool. Not okay. Not sane.


edit on 6/15/2016 by BuzzyWigs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 02:21 PM
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a reply to: Raggedyman

Let's see...what else did you ask -
Blood Diamonds. Yep, I don't have a diamond. My husband and I refuse to buy diamonds because of the child slave labor.

And you didn't give me a link to watch your Machine Gun preacher, so I didn't waste my time looking for it.

Soooooo........

my solutions (which you asked earlier and I described) are to stop war. Stop abuse of children, both mental and physical. Stop killing each other. Stop buying sh!t that causes death - like crap clothes from Bangladesh where factories collapse in the name of money....and diamonds that little kids have to dig out....and soccer balls that little kids sew together....

Stop turning youths with promise and futures into killing machines who come back from basic training and/or combat broken, traumatized, and estranged from civilian society. Stop building bigger tanks and better bombs.

START FEEDING PEOPLE, and tending to their needs, and educating them. Listen to their concerns, and find a NON-VIOLENT WAY to meet their needs.

All you had to offer was "yeah it sucks and it's bad but what else can we do?" which is a cop-out. So you do what - pray? Yeah, that works NOT. Tell other people they will go to hell? Yeah, that's true NOT. Think gunning people down is cool? It's not. None of that is mature or sane.

Make what you will of it.
I'm telling it how I see it. Insanity.



posted on Jun, 15 2016 @ 08:22 PM
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originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
a reply to: Raggedyman

Let's see...what else did you ask -
Blood Diamonds. Yep, I don't have a diamond. My husband and I refuse to buy diamonds because of the child slave labor.

And you didn't give me a link to watch your Machine Gun preacher, so I didn't waste my time looking for it.

Soooooo........

my solutions (which you asked earlier and I described) are to stop war. Stop abuse of children, both mental and physical. Stop killing each other. Stop buying sh!t that causes death - like crap clothes from Bangladesh where factories collapse in the name of money....and diamonds that little kids have to dig out....and soccer balls that little kids sew together....

Stop turning youths with promise and futures into killing machines who come back from basic training and/or combat broken, traumatized, and estranged from civilian society. Stop building bigger tanks and better bombs.

START FEEDING PEOPLE, and tending to their needs, and educating them. Listen to their concerns, and find a NON-VIOLENT WAY to meet their needs.

All you had to offer was "yeah it sucks and it's bad but what else can we do?" which is a cop-out. So you do what - pray? Yeah, that works NOT. Tell other people they will go to hell? Yeah, that's true NOT. Think gunning people down is cool? It's not. None of that is mature or sane.

Make what you will of it.
I'm telling it how I see it. Insanity.


Thats idealism, thats not a solution, how do you intend to make people do what is clearly the right thing to do

I bet you have a gun in your home for defense, thats probably fairly wise, at the very least it can be a visual deterrent

Its wonderful you dont have diamonds, thats great, still what would you suggest done to stop the blood diamond trade, child labour, outside of killing people who orchestrate the problem. How do we stop wars?

How do we stop people with an opposing agenda from turning youths with promise and futures into killing machines stop building bigger tanks and better bombs, how do we stop them from invading and killing

How do we start feeding people when the top 99% of the worlds wealth is owned by about 1% of the worlds community. I agree with all your idealistic views, just think we will always need soldiers, guns and drones to defend ourselves.

All I have to offer is "yeah it sucks and it's bad but what else can we do?, cos I cant pretend there is another realistic option thats not a day dream, gunning people down is not cool, its not sane, its what happens

I am not suggesting you pray, I will, but here is a thought, what if those who are counter to our views are told, stop being evil because one day you will be accountable for your abuses, you will face judgement, judgement will be swift and harsh, should that not make a difference.

Buzz, I think a cop out is pretending, wishing people were nice to each other, making that your solution to the worlds problems, it doesnt work.

Sometimes, sadly, to stop children being forced into soldiering, people have to die. It is what it is

A drone if in the right hands has the capacity to destroy the enemy without forcing people into combat, negating the issue of soldiers returning broken, traumatised and isolated from community

We disagree, clearly

As for the insanity of religion, yeah I agree, it is insane, people have manipulated it for an agenda, no question.
Jesus taught peace, not unlike what you have called for, yet the governments and others have manipulated it

Lets talk Pol Pot Mao, Stalin, et al.
Dont just blame religion, its a human problem.

Look at the US, the whole country survives by feeding of other countrys oil and resources, got fat off other peoples food, fueled wars with arms manufacturing, sold overpriced pharmaceuticals to the poor. Enslaved children for Iphones at a cheap price
The reserve currency was all about controlling global economics, blame all Americans or just the greedy few

Come on, you are not that silly to blame the many for the few, surely?


edit on 15-6-2016 by Raggedyman because: (no reason given)



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