Whatever they are, they are not normal cloud formations

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: TerryDon79

Thankyou and i sincerely hope you're right.

No problem.

The whole conspiracy is lead by people being suspicious. Suspicion is (obviously) a good thing, but suspicion without proof can be damaging. Especially after 20+ years.

Think about how many people have lost family and friends (not through death, but through no longer associating with them) because of this conspiracy.

Think about how much the "top dogs" have made by selling books, subscription based websites and all the merchandise. They will NEVER admit it's a contrail. As soon as they do, they cash cow will dry up.

But like I've said many times. There's zero evidence that there are chemtrails.

a reply to: TerryDon79

Instead of accusing people of being mind controlled, elite, shills and whatever else, why don't you provide some actual evidence of chemtrails. I'm being serious. PROVE that they are chemtrails.

If you mean, by elite, you, I have made no such claim. For the rest, see the above reply.

If you can't, then you're doing nothing more than "I don't know science and I see white lines, therefore, chemtrails!"

Well, let`s leave at that then. I worry not as I have nothing to gain....On the other side though, there is much to lose.

Well, let`s leave at that then. I worry not as I have nothing to gain....On the other side though, there is much to lose.

A lot of chetrail believers have lost something already: their sanity

It's truly beyond me how people can fall en masse for what must be the most transparent scam ever. Apparently there's a fertile soil of paranoia regarding anything government on which any idea that puts it in a bad light will grow.

And apparently such ideas are enough to get you worried that it might actually be happening, despite every single claim having been pointed out as dumb, silly, and without basis. What does it take for true believers to finally realize that they've been had? Or will you always feel that there's still one more thing that hasn't been fully debunked to your satisfaction, so it may still be true?

originally posted by: awareness10
a reply to: mrthumpy

Hi there, thumpy.

No i'm not going to completely ignore you so don't worry.

I found a Video i thought it was interesting. I was hoping knowlege driven people like yourself would show me what these chemtrails are, people are seeing.

So, can you tell me then, what you think they are if they are not real?

I'm not here to have a sword fight with you, i only wish to understand what they are. Kapish?

Have you looked into contrails and cirrus clouds? Do you understand what conditions are needed for either one to exist? If you have ever in your life been concerned about "chemtrails" then learning this bit of info is critical to understanding reality. However, if you really enjoy the conspiracy, and have no desire at all to understand reality, then ignore all that, and bury yourself in the conspiracy sites, that only validate your deepest fears.

In this conspiracy, most fall into the latter category. I am not sure why, but learning facts is frowned upon. If you have genuine questions please ask or start a thread.

I`d like to leave a few more breadcrumbs for those with an open mind that are not in any way biased and just want to find out the truth, whether for or against the phenomena called CHEMTRAILS which are in fact CONTRAILS.

First you should get fully acquainted with Case Orange. Then take a look at Case orange metabunk and read ALL the comments below CAREFULLY. It may take a while...just remain skeptical of both parties involved in the argument. Double check everything...Also note that Case Orange isn`t exactly a scientific paper in its entirety as certain things lack evidence but is not entirely debunked either as the two go hand in hand.

Here is one more NASA doc that CONFIRMS THAT THEY ARE AWARE that contrails do have an influence on global climate. Just for informational purpose.

Now the second part of the proposed theory of mind control program, which I have never said that it is indeed happening but that it might, comes with a great deal of speculation but know that nanomaterials are being planted everywhere. You should read below:

Scientists develop new way to detect threatening nanoparticles in food

FDA sued over lack of Nanotech oversight

How Nanoparticles Get Into the Environment

There is no way of knowing for certain what the true purpose of these nanomaterials is. Remember that this tech has been in use for quite some time before it reached public attention and anyone telling you otherwise is either on board or claiming to know better for whatever purpose, perhaps one really believes so.

Of course some will try to point out that these two (contrails and nanotech) are not related but do a further enquiry, if you must, and you will see that nanotech is also being used in aviation as well as for fuel additives. The issue with nanotech is that it can easily have more than one function even after a certain chemical process has occured or specifically because of it.

A perfect way of spreading nanoparticles accross the area is through combustion of an airplane so it can cover a vast amount of ground. Only difference to other fossil fuel motor vechiles is that the byproduct of an airplane are contrails which by itself is nothing more than basic physics (and they DO have an influence on the climate) but at the same time all these nanoparticles are being sprayed everywhere that it has not been made public about what purpose do they serve in reality. Surely someone knows the truth, it is not just a monkey trying out the new tech no matter the consequences...or is it? So what exactly do they serve for? Terraforming and transhumanism? Mind control? Or just an ignorant doing of humanity? You decide...

Also as someone said, that there is still one more thing that it has not been debunked yet to my satisfaction? lol, really? Let me rephrase the statement. There is always one more thing that has not been proven yet or made public and that obviously brings satisfaction to an ignorant and arrogant mind that clings on to whatever he/she is being told. Typical for the specific mindset.

Well, now I`m leaving this thread for good, so have fun and remain vigilant and never let anyone influence your thoughts, especially on the internet. Otherwise you are just complying...a mind control exercise right there...You may also include me for this matter.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

why would NASA study the effects of contrails if they are the one's secretly spraying chemtrails? It's pretty common knowledge among chemtrail believers that persistent contrails are actually chemtrails. Without that, there is no theory. I am not sure you put a lot of thought into this.

*cough, cough* "Dammit tower, can you tell Smythe ahead of us that he hit the chemtrail switch too early again!"

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

comes with a great deal of speculation but know that nanomaterials are being planted everywhere.

By planted you mean they occur naturally...

Naturally occurring nanomaterials can be found everywhere in nature (fullerenes and graphene even have been discovered in space) and only with recent advances in instrumentation and metrology equipment are researchers beginning to locate, isolate, characterize and classify the vast range of their structural and chemical varieties.

www.nanowerk.com...=23516.php

What I find funny is you think somehow if you post a link to a story about nano particles that means it is automatically related to some spray conspiracy nobody has been able to show evidence of being real.

Well, now I`m leaving this thread for good,

Imagine that...

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

Pretty standard and unimpressive fare. Drawing conclusions from documents that say nothing close to what you seem to think they say that are then being deployed to substantiate your own assumptions as if other people can't even see that you are talking rubbish.


Hard luck chap. Try harder in future.

originally posted by: Op3nM1nd3d
I`d like to leave a few more breadcrumbs for those with an open mind that are not in any way biased and just want to find out the truth, whether for or against the phenomena called CHEMTRAILS which are in fact CONTRAILS.

First you should get fully acquainted with Case Orange. Then take a look at Case orange metabunk and read ALL the comments below CAREFULLY. It may take a while...just remain skeptical of both parties involved in the argument. Double check everything...Also note that Case Orange isn`t exactly a scientific paper in its entirety as certain things lack evidence but is not entirely debunked either as the two go hand in hand.

The problem is that it lacks any kind of evidence for it's most important claim: chemtrails. I'm not sure why you have to rely on this kind of stuff. Isn't there any cut and clear evidence?

Here is one more NASA doc that CONFIRMS THAT THEY ARE AWARE that contrails do have an influence on global climate. Just for informational purpose.

I'd be surprised if they didn't have some kind of effect. Everything has an effect. If I poor a bucket of water in the ocean, it's going to have an effect, however small it may be.

Now the second part of the proposed theory of mind control program, which I have never said that it is indeed happening but that it might, comes with a great deal of speculation but know that nanomaterials are being planted everywhere. You should read below:

Scientists develop new way to detect threatening nanoparticles in food

FDA sued over lack of Nanotech oversight

How Nanoparticles Get Into the Environment

There is no way of knowing for certain what the true purpose of these nanomaterials is. Remember that this tech has been in use for quite some time before it reached public attention and anyone telling you otherwise is either on board or claiming to know better for whatever purpose, perhaps one really believes so.

Of course some will try to point out that these two (contrails and nanotech) are not related but do a further enquiry, if you must, and you will see that nanotech is also being used in aviation as well as for fuel additives. The issue with nanotech is that it can easily have more than one function even after a certain chemical process has occured or specifically because of it.

A perfect way of spreading nanoparticles accross the area is through combustion of an airplane so it can cover a vast amount of ground. Only difference to other fossil fuel motor vechiles is that the byproduct of an airplane are contrails which by itself is nothing more than basic physics (and they DO have an influence on the climate) but at the same time all these nanoparticles are being sprayed everywhere that it has not been made public about what purpose do they serve in reality. Surely someone knows the truth, it is not just a monkey trying out the new tech no matter the consequences...or is it? So what exactly do they serve for? Terraforming and transhumanism? Mind control? Or just an ignorant doing of humanity? You decide...

If there are nanoparticles being sprayed through combustion of fuel, then:

1: The biggest concentration of such particles would be around airports. People who work on or live nearby airports would be affected the most. Do we see anything that indicates that these people are in some way different, as a result of having been affected by these particles?

2: How hard would it be to test fuel for additives that shouldn't be in there? The particles being nanoparticles doesn't make themn immune for testing.

3: Most chemtrail believers claim that chemtrails are the result of chemicals being sprayed. That's the reason why they persist, according to them. But if chemtrails are the result of nanoparticles being added to fuel, then these trails would have to form during the entire flight, and not just in areas in the air where contrails form naturally. We don't see such an effect, so I think we can relegate this theory to the round file.

Anyway it seems you took off, so I'm not sure why I bother... lol. It seems it's incredibly hard to make a good case for chemtrails, and using material that has been looked at and debunked over and over isn't going to help you to make your case.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

Case orange metabunk

You do know that has been debunked for a while now...as it's a notorious go to tactic from those who believe in chemtrails.

Ok guys, one last time reply...just because you have put an effort into it

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You do know that has been debunked for a while now...as it's a notorious go to tactic from those who believe in chemtrails.

So you think if it`s in meta bunk that then it is definitely debunked? lol, it works on the same principle as the media, so if they tell you something, then it`s definitely true? That`s why I have said to read comments below and be skeptical about both parties involved. It certainly lacks some degree of transparency and credibility but it`s not all bunk.

By planted you mean they occur naturally...

There is a difference between natural and artificial nanomaterials. I thought you knew that.

After nearly 50 years of detailed study, we know quite a bit about the effect of traditional chemical contaminants (pesticides, plasticizers, pharmaceuticals, etc.) on human or environmental health. However, the possibility that synthetic nanoparticles could soon join them in the environment raises new concerns, because nanoparticles may impact the health and stability of local ecosystems in ways that are difficult to predict. Today, we are drawing a distinction between synthetic and naturally-occurring nanoparticles; when and where nanoparticles occur naturally, they may actually be an important part of the biological and geochemical processes that are essential for what we consider “normal” ecosystem function.

Just because some nanoparticles occur naturally doesn’t mean that many synthetic nanoparticles don’t pose a serious environmental concern. Ironically, it is nanomaterials’ unique size-dependent properties (which may allow us to unlock new and amazing innovations), that could also pose unforeseen problems if nanoparticles are unintentionally released into the environment. Like traditional chemical contaminants, some synthetic nanoparticles may be directly toxic to microbes, plants, and animals.

Problem is that they are released in the environment, not to mention that this has been happening for quite some time.

Abstract

Ultrafine particles and engineered nanoparticles have unique aerodynamic and biochemical properties that affect the immune system and human health in ways that are different from or exceed those seen with gases or larger particulates. These effects result from a unique set of physical characteristics and surface moieties, which generate an ability of UFPs to enter tissues and cells, interact with proteins and DNA at a molecular level and directly and indirectly modulate the immune system by novel mechanisms. In recent years, a new field known as nanotechnology has impacted multiple industries by taking advantage of the special qualities of these small "atomic-sized" particles. Nanomedicine has already opened up a new avenue of research in cancer therapy, drug delivery and immune regulation. While the benefits of this new science to human civilization are seemingly immeasurable, it is also important to appreciate that these particles can also lead to harmful effects on human health. In vitro and animal studies are showing that nanoparticles and UFPs are capable of activating proinflammatory cytokines, chemokines and adhesion molecules, with recruitment of inflammatory cells including basophils, macrophages, dendritic cells, T cells, neutrophils and eosinophils. These changes may have an impact on immune defense, but also on the Th1/Th2 balance, and even on non-immunologic function. Resulting immune system derangement can lead to increases in incidence of autoimmune, allergic and even neoplastic diseases. Cardiorespiratory effects have been observed to occur in humans. Much further research is needed to establish safe exposure levels for this important new class of particulates.source

Abstract

Ultrafine particles (UFPs; diameter less than 100 nm) are ubiquitous in urban air, and an acknowledged risk to human health. Globally, the major source for urban outdoor UFP concentrations is motor traffic. Ongoing trends towards urbanisation and expansion of road traffic are anticipated to further increase population exposure to UFPs. Numerous experimental studies have characterised UFPs in individual cities, but an integrated evaluation of emissions and population exposure is still lacking. source

And here comes the funny part.

Ultrafine particles (UFPs) are particulate matter of nanoscale size (less than 100 nanometres in diameter). Regulations do not exist for this size class of ambient air pollution particles, which are far smaller than the regulated PM10 and PM2.5 particle classes and are believed to have several more aggressive health implications than those classes of larger particulates. UFPs are both manufactured and naturally occurring source

So who knows what exactly these manufactured particles are for. Terraforming and transhumanism? I`d say very likely, not necessarily bad but different and unnatural. Mind control? Perhaps, could be both. Someone must know something, I don`t believe in shoot first, ask questions later scenario that applies to human stupidity. At least not in this case.

a reply to: payt69

The problem is that it lacks any kind of evidence for it's most important claim: chemtrails. I'm not sure why you have to rely on this kind of stuff. Isn't there any cut and clear evidence?

Which part of my Chemtrais are Contrails claim have you missed? You are looking at the wrong end of the stick.

1: The biggest concentration of such particles would be around airports. People who work on or live nearby airports would be affected the most. Do we see anything that indicates that these people are in some way different, as a result of having been affected by these particles?

Exposed, yes, changed, depends if you can tell the difference.

2: How hard would it be to test fuel for additives that shouldn't be in there? The particles being nanoparticles doesn't make themn immune for testing.

That`s why they are trying to gain some sort of oversight. Read above...

3: Most chemtrail believers claim that chemtrails are the result of chemicals being sprayed. That's the reason why they persist, according to them. But if chemtrails are the result of nanoparticles being added to fuel, then these trails would have to form during the entire flight, and not just in areas in the air where contrails form naturally. We don't see such an effect, so I think we can relegate this theory to the round file.

You are missing the point. Every motor that runs on fossil fuel sprays nanoparticles in the area but how do you reach nature and people in remote areas where there is no traffic? Answer is through flight. Contrails are just a byproduct of combustion in specific high altitude conditions. Chemtrails is a term that is often misunderstood.

a reply to: waynos

Pretty standard and unimpressive fare. Drawing conclusions from documents that say nothing close to what you seem to think they say that are then being deployed to substantiate your own assumptions as if other people can't even see that you are talking rubbish.

Would expect nothing less from a man of your reputation who is only good at twisting others words and doesn`t even bother reading the links I provided or what I`m trying to say because such a man knows better, or at least he thinks he does. Pretty standard and unimpressive way of proving me wrong...or should I rather say...earning a living?

originally posted by: Op3nM1nd3d

You are missing the point. Every motor that runs on fossil fuel sprays nanoparticles in the area but how do you reach nature and people in remote areas where there is no traffic? Answer is through flight. Contrails are just a byproduct of combustion in specific high altitude conditions. Chemtrails is a term that is often misunderstood.

then what is your point? You think you get to reclassify particulates as nanoparticles to make it sound juicy?

Would expect nothing less from a man of your reputation who is only good at twisting others words and doesn`t even bother reading the links I provided or what I`m trying to say because such a man knows better, or at least he thinks he does. Pretty standard and unimpressive way of proving me wrong...or should I rather say...earning a living?

Yea, because you are just that damn important. Get over yourself.

Exposed, yes, changed, depends if you can tell the difference.

How do you know they've been exposed to anything irregular? You make this claim, but there's zero evidence to substantiate it. I'm afraid it's just more paranoia in an attept to keep the 'chemtrail' story (whatever version) going. Why is it so hard to see that there's nothing to it? There was nothing to it when William Thomas got the ball rolling back in the 90's and there's still nothing today to substantiate it.

Doesn't it ever worry you that in all those years there's nothing to show for all the insistent paranoia of the believers? Look how many times the story has been adjusted in the face of untenable lack of evidence. I suppose that's why most believers jumped shipt to the geoengineering crowd, who still maintain the old chemtrail bullet points (contrails can't persist and that kind of nonsense) but they see a different purpose for the bad chemicals, equally without credible evidence though.

That`s why they are trying to gain some sort of oversight. Read above...

You mean that in all those years of claiming that there's something in the fuel nobody has bothered to actually get a sample and take a look? Even William Thomas claimed there was something in the fuel back in the day, but do you think somebody went and analyzed a sample to see if there's something actually in there? Nope.. of course not. That's because reality has the nasty habit of exposing paranoia for what it is.

You are missing the point. Every motor that runs on fossil fuel sprays nanoparticles in the area but how do you reach nature and people in remote areas where there is no traffic? Answer is through flight. Contrails are just a byproduct of combustion in specific high altitude conditions. Chemtrails is a term that is often misunderstood.

You mean you have your own definition of what a chemtrail is, but you still have zero evidence. Unless I missed the part where you posted said evidence. All I;ve seen is conjecture and jumping to unjustified conclusions though, like how you seem to take it for a fact that spraying is going on.

Spraying anything from 30.000 feet and up is just about the most inefficient way of spraying imaginable. There's no control of where the spray goes, and by the time any particles reach the surface (if they ever do, because since they're incredibly light they might as well keep going around in the air indefinitely) everything has been so diluted that an effect can't be measured.

There are currently more than 20,000 known air quality monitoring stations in the world, yet not a single one has been able to detect anything along the lines of what you seem to be concerned about. Are they all in the loop too? As if the whole chemtrail conspiracy isn't inflationary enough yet... literally millions of people have to be involved, yet we haven't heard a peep, except from conspiracy theorists who never offer credible evidence. Doesn't that concern you?

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: INEVERQUIT


Commercial air traffic (nor most military traffic, for that matter) fly willy-nilly wherever they want. The fly in these set "highways" in the sky.

Not any more, we don't.The highways of which you speak still exist but they are rarely used. The Victor airways, which are defined by Very High Frequency Omnidirectional Radio Ranges (VORs), and for high altitude aircraft the Jet Airways are anachronisms. If I am going to go from JFK in New York to Seattle, I can just plug the coordinates into the Inertial Nav System and go direct, ignoring the airways with their bends and longer tracks. And, BTW, WILLY and NILLY are both navigation fixes near Norfolk, Va. Since the ultimate goal of the FAA is to eliminate VORs and use ADS-B, the airways will disappear at some point for IFR traffic.

a reply to: Op3nM1nd3d

Again,you simply assume that manufactured particles are deliberately used. There are lots of examples of studies of contrails and the effects they may have, you've failed to demonstrate how studying incidental side effects equates to deliberate spraying. Your position relies entirely on the massive assumption that someone is spraying deliberately.

You also fail to address why manufactured particles are even required. Do you suppose they would create contrails in conditions where normal jet exhaust would not? Do you suppose they would make a trail persist that otherwise would not? How do you amend physics and chemistry in order to explain this, given that it is well understood that persistence is a function of atmospheric conditions, not the plane flying through them?

One basic truism I've noticed, and which no chemmie has ever been able to explain, is that however much you try to promote your own individual take on what chemtrails are, you wouldn't even know the word chemtrail if the paranoia mafia hadn't first started promoting nonsense about contrails not persisting, government spraying ops etc and posting their fake pics and lies, all the while asking for money, back in the 90's. Yet, even when the lies end fakes that started the entire meme ARE fully recognised for what they are, instead of concluding that it's all a scam to make money and peddle unnecessary fear, you (plural, not individual) start looking around for what chemtrails might otherwise be. That is a very odd mindset. That's not being open minded , it's being closed to the fact that you were lied to and it's all made up rubbish.

As for your attempt to slur me. Knock yourself out, it's strangely satisfying when you see another shyster run out of arguments and start to make it personal. How about answering some questions instead of deflecting?

Perhaps its me... but i remember as a child the clouds not looking quite so fluffy and animated as they are now.

Just an observation.

a reply to: network dude

Thankyou Sargent Begruntled, i'll try to THINK better next time.

a reply to: awareness10

Ah.
Wrong thread then. That would be the Mandela effect.

a reply to: Phage

Wow you believe in the mandela effect Phage, seriously?