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Religious Leaders Off the Rails

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posted on May, 20 2016 @ 02:59 PM
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originally posted by: Seede
a reply to: Cheddarhead


But if that's true, how does Pope Francis read the same scripture and have a totally opposite interpretation? He has upset the Religious Right many times with his opinions. Pat Robertson and the Religious Right have a nasty, uncaring mindset and use scripture to justify it.

Are you implying there are religious right and religious left? Are you saying that you have the gift of sorting out right from left in religions? Never heard that expression before. What was Jesus? Right or left? Is left good or is right good? Maybe both? So the pope upsets the right so you are saying the pope is the left?


I didn't say there was a religious right or left. I was referring to the Conservative/Republican/Evangelical movement who are quoting scripture to support a decidedly uncompassionate viewpoint towards fellow humans.

In all honesty, I remember hearing quotes attributed to Jesus such as "love thy neighbor as yourself" and " a rich person has as much change to enter into heaven as a camel to pass through the eye of a needle" or even the stories of Him having supper with poor people and prostitutes, yet not passing judgement on them.

If you want a direction, I would consider Jesus to be "religious left" or liberal. I also imagine He would be very sad at how those words have been perverted into a version of Christianity that supports hatred and intolerance.

edit on 5/20/2016 by Cheddarhead because: typo




posted on May, 20 2016 @ 03:27 PM
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a reply to: Cheddarhead

Yes, and you only get half the story in your version.

Jesus ministered to sinners which is why he had dinner with prostitutes and tax collectors alike, and there is no sin in being poor.

He said himself

As Jesus went on from there, he saw a man named Matthew sitting at the tax collector’s booth. “Follow me,” he told him, and Matthew got up and followed him.

10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”

12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. 13 But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”
Matthew 9:9-13

So basically, it says there that He came to those who needed to hear His ministry to be recalled to righteousness which is why he went to the sinners. He was calling them back to righteousness and out of their sins. That is very much passing judgment on them. Had they been living the proper path, what I just quoted implied He would not have been there with them as they would not have needed Him to call them back. Why else refer to them as not healthy but sick?

Yes, you are to love your neighbor, but part of loving someone is to not enable them in their own destructive ways. If you see them doing something harmful, you stop them. You do not step back and let them destroy themselves. When we talk about families with addiction, one of the things we talk about is enabling. Parents tend to enable because they love, but they don't love enough to do what they should - which is to judge and stop helping their loved one destroy themselves with their own destructive behavior.

The whole thing about the rich is also often misunderstood. The great temptation of riches and wealth is that they supplant God in your heart. God should be uppermost, and if He is, then wealth is not problematic as you are not so wrapped up in it that you cannot put it in its perspective and give of it as needed to those in need. You do not have to be dirt poor and covered in sack-cloth and ashes in order to be righteous. It's just that those who are do not have the added distraction of wealth to get in the way; however, as the times prove, greed is just as alive for the poor as it ever was among the wealthy since many who don't have as much as their neighbors envy it above all else these days. Seems to me they will have as much trouble threading the eye of the needle as anyone else.



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 04:48 PM
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a reply to: Seede

Sorry pal, but there is a huge difference between Not Giving everything you have and letting someone starve in the street.

I give to the homeless and hungry quite a bit actually. I damn sure wouldn't let anyone just starve in the street if I saw it happening.

I sure as sh*t wouldn't get on TV and tell everyone watching that as a Someone who Speaks for Christians as Pat Roberson allegedly does that "let them starve in the streets" is my advice to them.

FYI, I'm not exactly a big believer in Jesus in the first place so when it comes down to "what would Jesus Do?" I think it's kind of a silly question. But then I'm not a Christian. But Pat is and if he or you think Jesus as told about in the bible would advise people to let others starve in the street, then you're both crazy.



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:08 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm


FYI, I'm not exactly a big believer in Jesus in the first place so when it comes down to "what would Jesus Do?" I think it's kind of a silly question. But then I'm not a Christian. But Pat is and if he or you think Jesus as told about in the bible would advise people to let others starve in the street, then you're both crazy.

I gathered that you were simply bashing another guy for what he believes. You haven't a clue as to what Robertson gives to the needy. Street people are a minority of people in need ( at least in my area of the U.S.) and most are on the streets because of choice. I also have worked with street people for a great number of years and not necessarily through any religious affiliations. No one said Jesus would advise letting the poor and needy be poor and needy. He did say that there will always be poor and needy and that is a fact mostly by the choice of those that are poor and needy.

I also have helped organize and establish soup kitchens in the Philippines for children and have found the same there also. Most all poverty is from lack of education, laziness, drugs and alcohol related as well as the crooks that run the countries stealing from their own people. Save your misinformation for the fat cats that blame religion for these street people. You blame a few preachers for all of this and you don't know what you are spewing. Christians are the largest groups of humans on this earth that give.



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:33 PM
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The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) states that the nation’s homeless veterans are predominantly male, with roughly 9% being female. The majority are single; live in urban areas; and suffer from mental illness, alcohol and/or substance abuse, or co-occurring disorders. About 11% of the adult homeless population are veterans.

Roughly 45% of all homeless veterans are African American or Hispanic, despite only accounting for 10.4% and 3.4% of the U.S. veteran population, respectively.

Homeless veterans are younger on average than the total veteran population. Approximately 9% are between the ages of 18 and 30, and 41% are between the ages of 31 and 50. Conversely, only 5% of all veterans are between the ages of 18 and 30, and less than 23% are between 31 and 50.

America’s homeless veterans have served in World War II, the Korean War, Cold War, Vietnam War, Grenada, Panama, Lebanon, Persian Gulf War, Afghanistan and Iraq (OEF/OIF), and the military’s anti-drug cultivation efforts in South America. Nearly half of homeless veterans served during the Vietnam era. Two-thirds served our country for at least three years, and one-third were stationed in a war zone.

About 1.4 million other veterans, meanwhile, are considered at risk of homelessness due to poverty, lack of support networks, and dismal living conditions in overcrowded or substandard housing.

nchv.org...


just reminding some of the one sad fact.... around 11% of the homeless are those we've sent to fight our stupid wars.




Why are veterans homeless?

In addition to the complex set of factors influencing all homelessness – extreme shortage of affordable housing, livable income and access to health care – a large number of displaced and at-risk veterans live with lingering effects of post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and substance abuse, which are compounded by a lack of family and social support networks. Additionally, military occupations and training are not always transferable to the civilian workforce, placing some veterans at a disadvantage when competing for employment.

A top priority for homeless veterans is secure, safe, clean housing that offers a supportive environment free of drugs and alcohol.

nchv.org...



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 10:59 PM
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a reply to: Seede

You seem to enjoy putting words in my mouth and making assumptions about me for some reason. I'm not sure why.

You can think whatever you want about Roberson for all I care. I think he's an ass personally. For as much as you say he's given to the needy over the years he's taken at least as much from those less fortunate than himself too. I won't bother getting into that though, if you really want to know what I mean it's easy to find for yourself.

I also never said he represented the majority of Christians either. Nor did I say Christians aren't helping the needy. Nothing I'm saying is misinformation either. I'm also not blaming a few preachers for all the problems. I don't know where you're getting that from. You seem to have an axe to grind with someone for some reason but I'm not the guy. So save your energy and your time.



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 11:12 PM
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a reply to: Seede

Lol so much talk so little facts. By choice ! Like anyone would really choose to live on the streets. Come on now.

Do you have any idea how much money churches are given actually goes to those who need it? Verses how much is spent on luxury cars and mansions for preachers or buying buildings worth a hundred million dollars for the circus known as church?



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 11:43 PM
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originally posted by: Joecanada11
Lol so much talk so little facts. By choice ! Like anyone would really choose to live on the streets. Come on now.


Well, to be fair that does on rare occasions happen. Although it is very rare when it does. Most people find themselves on the street against their wishes and would much rather not be in that position.

But I did actually know a homeless man here in my home town who did choose it. He was actually a professor or research scientist or something that one day just gave up everything and lived on the streets. He was homeless and didn't smell that great the few times I sat and talked to him but he didn't beg for money or anything either. He just decided to not belong to the rat race anymore and gave up everything. But he was well educated and at one time was doing well in society.

Not that I'm siding with Sede on anything else or that I'm disagreeing with you, I'm not. You're correct for the most part. But I just wanted to ad that once in a while you do get someone who chooses to live on the streets like that.



posted on May, 20 2016 @ 11:49 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

It's true. I did make a blanket statement. I too know of a few people who choose street life as well however I know the majority do not and have been productive citizens before losing it all. Mental health issues are also a huge part of the homelessness problem.



posted on May, 21 2016 @ 03:44 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm


I sure as sh*t wouldn't get on TV and tell everyone watching that as a Someone who Speaks for Christians as Pat Roberson allegedly does that "let them starve in the streets" is my advice to them. FYI, I'm not exactly a big believer in Jesus in the first place so when it comes down to "what would Jesus Do?" I think it's kind of a silly question. But then I'm not a Christian. But Pat is and if he or you think Jesus as told about in the bible would advise people to let others starve in the street, then you're both crazy.

Flop houses don't keep records and most all depend upon donations from all people and not necessarily religious institutions. I believe this entire thread was primarily designed to knock religion as is the case most times in ATS religious formats.

The article I read was as follows and the term "Street People" is not used.
Quote -On "The 700 Club" today, Pat Robertson responded to a question from a viewer who wanted to know what the proper Christian response is to drug addicts in her town who are, she complained, using up government and hospital resources that she has to pay for with her tax dollars. Robertson responded that it was time for some tough love and that drug addicts who refuse to work or seek treatment should simply be allowed to starve to death.

A viewer from Massachusetts cited a Boston Herald article about the strain that addicted and mentally ill "super-utilizers" are putting on Boston's hospitals and Medicaid system and complained that she's finding it hard to be charitable toward drug addicts who are intentionally overdosing and wasting resources that she is paying for with her taxes.

Robertson responded by citing 2 Thessalonians 3:10, which says that "if anyone will not work, neither shall he eat," as justification for allowing addicts to starve to death.

"There are a bunch of people who are just bums and they're trying to ride in on the charity of others," Robertson said. "Tough love will say, 'I'm not going to give you something.' ... If these people are out drugging themselves, let 'em starve to death. I know that sounds hard, but that's the way it's got to be." Unquote

Now lets back up to Oct. 30, 1984 - It was not the religious right who threw close to a half million instituted people out into society. It was the policy of politicians who wanted to free up institutions and who closed up these institutions to relieve the cost to the Government both federal and states.

Who absorbed this cost? The people who cared enough to try and help and they are a far minority in the nation. What brings this to light now? Massive unemployment and family needs of the average guy who has not had a decent cost of living raise for well over a decade. Most people simply do not have the money to support themselves and the druggies with their drug habits. So what to do? You feed and cloth those who can be helped and the others will have to be supported by whatever is left. If a person has the money for drugs, alcohol, or tobacco then they have means to feed themselves. Who gives anyone the right to say how I should spend my money? I would rather help a little kid than a loser who won't even try.

If a church member lost his job and his family is in need then it is the responsibility of the congregation to help that family before using that money on a loser who could not care less. I read and reread Robertson's article and see nothing in it that is against the teachings of Jesus.
edit on 21-5-2016 by Seede because: left out quotation



posted on May, 21 2016 @ 04:06 PM
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a reply to: Seede

First of all that aren't the words of Jesus anyway. Paul wrote that.

Second of all, who says they don't work??? Just because you are shooting up doesn't mean you're a bum on the streets. Heroin and opiate addiction hits every class. But I don't need to tell you that.

But hey, if you agree with that message good for you. You and Robertson should get along great then as you pass judgement and lack pity for those who you feel should starve to death. That's your choice to make. I'm not stopping you.



posted on May, 22 2016 @ 02:42 AM
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originally posted by: Joecanada11
This one is classic. Old Robert Tilton in his glory days. This guy robbed people of over a hundred million with lies like this.



This guy is much more entertaining with the farts.



posted on May, 22 2016 @ 07:42 PM
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a reply to: mOjOm

If Pat Robertson thinks what he does can be called work that is laughable.



posted on May, 22 2016 @ 08:08 PM
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So when is Pat going to blame all the flooding in Texas on some sort of "unchristian" crap like eating pork?

Personally, I think we should start saying that God did it to punish them for global warming. That's just as likely as places getting hit by tornadoes for not teaching creationism.



posted on May, 22 2016 @ 10:14 PM
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a reply to: CB328

No no it's the allowing of same sax marriages that are responsible for the flood.



posted on May, 22 2016 @ 10:29 PM
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The worst religious "leaders" are the ones who tell a grieving widow that her husband died of cancer because he was not following God's word. She is then instructed to give 20% of personal net-worth to the Lord to atone for the deceased husband's indiscretions.

That was just one example. I've seen a lot of people give unreal amounts of money/assets to the church, after any number of guilt trips were laid on them. The creativity of some of these church leaders is amazing. Sad, sick, and deceitfully amazing.
edit on 5/22/2016 by carewemust because: ?



posted on May, 22 2016 @ 10:44 PM
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a reply to: carewemust

Yep. Guilt about not tithing. I have no problem with churches doing charity work as long as they are doing real charity work.

I also think there needs to be more oversight on where church money goes. Because buying mansions and luxury planes and giving massive salaries to family and friends is criminal.
edit on 22-5-2016 by Joecanada11 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 22 2016 @ 10:47 PM
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a reply to: AntisocialAnxiety

No l think listening to his babbling and wild claims of seeding midgets grow is more entertaining than the farts.



posted on May, 23 2016 @ 10:51 AM
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a reply to: mOjOm


First of all that aren't the words of Jesus anyway. Paul wrote that. Second of all, who says they don't work??? Just because you are shooting up doesn't mean you're a bum on the streets. Heroin and opiate addiction hits every class. But I don't need to tell you that. But hey, if you agree with that message good for you. You and Robertson should get along great then as you pass judgement and lack pity for those who you feel should starve to death. That's your choice to make. I'm not stopping you.

The words that Paul wrote are what is taught to Paul by the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the God of Jesus. That is according to one who believes the bible.

You are right and then you are wrong. Yes many people who are druggies and or alcoholics do work and some will get by for a time doing their drugs and alcohol but the end game is that the majority will not be able to function due to related abuse and society does pick up the tab. Only those who are wealthy enough to sustain their habits will be self sufficient in end of life and those are very few and far between in reality.

I have personally dried out alcoholics along with medical assistance and have seen very little success till end of life when it becomes impossible for the victim to continue the abuse. By then it is too late and sad to see that another life was wasted. Do you realize the cost and untold effort of drying out just one alcoholic, getting that one into a half way house, finding that one a job and hoping that he/she can end a long and happy life? Meanwhile a little child is starving to death because that mom/dad is out shooting it up?

I don't believe you really understand that the money has dried up. There simply is not enough money to do the job as almost half of America is either on street and prescription drugs or alcohol. And you are concerned more in feeding a druggie than a little child? Do you understand that most malnourished children become a medical problem as an adult?
Every time you feed a bum all you are doing is encouraging that bum to come back for more and maybe even take that food away from a child. Nah. you do your thing and I will do mine.



posted on May, 24 2016 @ 12:18 PM
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originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
a reply to: mOjOm

I keep wondering why on Earth Robertson is still on the air. He's increasingly addled frankly. He spouts absolute nonsense and cloaks it in faux-religious rubbish. Are they that desperate for ratings and cash?


It facilitates your stance against the God mentioned in the bible. The main purpose of Christendom (all religions incorrectly claiming to be Christian). Christendom is not Christianity. It's described in the bible as being part of "Babylon the Great", a tool that Satan uses to manipulate the way you view the one he hates. And you're demonstrating it's working great. Hook, line and sink her.
At the end of this video you can see a similar trick being used by G.B. Shaw (allbeit less subtle):

Checkout some of G.B. Shaw's other ideas/philosophies and ways of thinking and arguing (to see if what I was alluding to above is healthy for your mind, no doubt you have used or heard similar arguments about the God mentioned in the bible):

edit on 24-5-2016 by whereislogic because: addition




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