ABUSE CRISIS: Graner Found Guilty, Sentenced to Ten Years

After a day and a half of testimony, and two hours of deliberation, Charles Graner has been sentenced to ten years in a military prison. Graner will have his rank reduced to private, and will be forced to forego all of his benefits and pay. After he has completed his sentence, he will be dishonorably discharged.



Obviously Graner felt no remorse. But I hope that given the chance to do it all over again, he would do it differently.

Graner's sentence will most likely begin immedately, as the military justice system does not mess around. I wonder if he will be allowed visits from Lyndie England and his child.

The supposed "ringleader" of the Abu Ghraib abuse scandal has been found guilty on all five counts by a military court. Graner may face up to 17 years in a military prison. The Abu Ghraib scandal has sorely tainted the reputation of some of the military and has been a sore thumb for the Bush Administration.


The trial lasted a total of five days, and the jury was comprised of four officers, and six high ranking enlisted men. The obviously didn't buy the "just following" orders defense that was offered by Graners lawyer.

After five hours of deliberation, the jury found Graner guilty. Three others are awaiting trial for similar charges.

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OP/ED: Cheerleaders at Abu Ghraib


[edit on 30-1-2005 by Banshee]

"The obviously didn't buy the "just following" orders defense that was offered by Grainers lawyer."

I'm glad that didn't wash. Did they say when the sentencing will take place? I have a feeling he is gonna get the max, for all the grief he has caused.

Graners sentencing phase will start almost immediately.

Apparently a military court doesn't mess around. They have reconvened, and plan to hear testimony late into the night.

[edit on 1/15/2005 by phreak_of_nature]

good, at least justice is still around. I for one am glad Graner was found guilty, at least the judges got the see the monster he really is.

Grainer is obviously just a fall-guy for those multiplicity of perverts and sexually-sick monsters who seek to govern, diminish and control us
No wonder he stacked naked prisoners in pyramids, with him or laughing Lynndie English symbolising the all-seeing eye
What better piss-take and mind-blast of us Joe Public
They were told to and in their mild-mannered torturing ways they did it
As ordered by the satanic scum based in Washington, New York, London all those centers of life-sucking power

Originally posted by dh

No wonder he stacked naked prisoners in pyramids, with him or laughing Lynndie English symbolising the all-seeing eye
What better piss-take and mind-blast of us Joe Public

Wow that has to be a first for that one. How did you come up with that? So some nobody military people Grainer and English just happen to part of the all powerful Illuminati. You know for a super secret socitey they love to advertise their symbol a whole lot.

What about cheerleaders they use pyramids I wonder if they are in on it to.

Originally posted by ShadowXIX

Originally posted by dh

No wonder he stacked naked prisoners in pyramids, with him or laughing Lynndie English symbolising the all-seeing eye
What better piss-take and mind-blast of us Joe Public

So some nobody military people Grainer and English just happen to part of the all powerful Illuminati. You know for a super secret socitey they love to advertise their symbol a whole lot.

.

Exactly - the exteriorisation of the agenda
So you first, subconsciously, get it
Next accept it as the norm
Sexual torture is becoming the norm, whether you like it or not
Whether you like it or not becomes irrelevant to the controlling forces as long as you don't do anything about it and their plans progress

[edit on 14-1-2005 by dh]

That excuse the lawyer gave comparing human pyramids at Abu Ghraib with football cheerleaders was terrible. The minute I heard that I had a feeling this guy was gonna be found guilty.

from dh
Grainer is obviously just a fall-guy for those multiplicity of perverts and sexually-sick monsters who seek to govern, diminish and control us

No, the guy is just a dumba$$. Did you read the article, the part about the emails he traded? That alone should earn him 10 years.

You know, I have done a 180 on this since the Abu Ghraib story first broke. I used to say that it wasn't really torture, just soldiers blowing off steam. But that was before the facts came out on how this guy actually participated. Now, he pisses me off.

The military doesn't mess around. Supper break, and then back to the sentencing phase.


[edit on 14-1-2005 by jsobecky]

That seems to have gone rather quickly from opening statements to guilty. I did not follow it. Was the trial public? Was the press there? Was he allowed to reveal who up the chain of command ordered or was complicit in his depraved behavior? It is not acceptable to whitewash the matter by convicting a few grunts and then get on with business as usual as though nothing happened. Those up the chain who are ultimately responsible must be punished and sanctioned at least as severely as their scapegoats. They are the real bastards in this whole affair. Wring 'em out and hang up up to dry. Oh well. So, much for dreaming. Where can I go to sign up as an Illuminati?

I'm torn on all this.
I have a hard time believing that his actions were based on orders handed down. I think that him and his buddies were just some seriously twisted people who got off on that kind of thing. But I would also hold his superiors responsible for his actions. How long was that stuff going on over there? No one up the chain of command had any inkling of what was going on? Kind of hard to believe.

I have a hard time believing that it goes all the way back to Washington though.

I wouldn't doubt if some CIA spook did mention to him that he wanted the prisoners softened up, but the CIA is not within his chain of command. He went overboard with what they "suggested" to him, and him and his buddies need to pay the price.

Originally posted by phreak_of_nature
I'm torn on all this.
I have a hard time believing that his actions were based on orders handed down. I think that him and his buddies were just some seriously twisted people who got off on that kind of thing.

When I found out that most of the people involved in this were from West Virginia and SW Pennsylvania I wasn't suprised about what happened in the least. No offense to any people from that region that might be reading this but that area of the country is full of some of the most dumb to the world ignorant people I've ever encountered. I remember reading some quotes from people from Lynndie England's hometown condoning what she did because the were the "enemy". Essentially this person was saying that they're lesser human beings.

That's how a lot of backwoods hicks think around there. So it's not at all out of the rhealm of possibilities that they did it just because they could (or thought they should). I don't know about Grainer, but that Lynndie England is one of the most disgusting human beings that I've ever seen.

I feel bad for their kid.

The military trains its recruits to follow orders and not deviate from prescribed procedures and protocols unless someone up the chain of command orders otherwise. Are you saying that THE training no longer works and everyone over there in Iraq is doing whatever the hell they want regardless of their training. That would indeed be a brave new world.

This guy is an idiot and so is the rest of the bunch involved. They even took pictures of this stuff. How stupid can they be. But my question still is, How can an E4 be the ringleader? There is more to the leadership train that this. Where is the rest of the unit? This whole thing stinks. What they did was wrong, but someone else of higher rank is also involved.

Personally I belief there were some orders given to "soften up" the prisoners for interrogation a bit, but Grainer used the granted space for free interpretation and took it beyond measure.

I personally trust the military courts far more than the civilian ones. The military courts and prisons are better functioning.

Pretty soon someone will start taking them down too I guess.

as posted by KrazyJethro
I personally trust the military courts far more than the civilian ones. The military courts and prisons are better functioning.

My feelings exactly, KrazyJethro, and I would add that they are extremely efficient, also.
And as such, despite the mention of some within this thread, findings indicated that Mr. Grainer acted voluntarily and independently. There were no "higher-up" superior orders for him to do what he and others did at Abu Ghraib. As such, even "if" he was following orders, doing so does not mean that he is exempt from responsibility for his subsequent actions that pertained to those alledged "orders". The Nuremburg Trails give prime example of those that tried to use the excuse that they were following "orders". Doesn't cut it, and certainly doesn't make for a credible excuse, whether it was torture or abuse.





seekerof

I for one thought, even if the so called big shots told me to do this, I would of been court marshalled for not following orders. Guilty or not of war crimes of POW, prisoners are not treat, never treated like that. They violated the code of conduct in my book. Now the rest of the ring will be bitting the bullet.

Originally posted by dubiousone
The military trains its recruits to follow orders and not deviate from prescribed procedures and protocols unless someone up the chain of command orders otherwise. Are you saying that THE training no longer works

Great points dubiousone.

...Looks to me like the higher ups just know how to pick the right people.

The guy is obviously guilty but can anyone spell "scapegoat"?


.

Originally posted by dh

Exactly - the exteriorisation of the agenda
So you first, subconsciously, get it
Next accept it as the norm
Sexual torture is becoming the norm, whether you like it or not
Whether you like it or not becomes irrelevant to the controlling forces as long as you don't do anything about it and their plans progress

[edit on 14-1-2005 by dh]

They were told not to touch the prisoners dh...orders which they actually disobeyed, there are a lot of sickos out there, even in the military. Everything you said, has no one inch of truth.

Freemasons are not evil people, well some might, but on the core of it they are not. I am not a freemason, but my grandfather was, and my uncles and aunt are. I don't know how she became a free mason since back in her days only men were allowed, but she is one. None of them are evil people even though they have high ranks, neither are they rich or powerful.

Anyways, sexual torture is not the norm in the military...

This is one of the reason why many real conspiracies are not taken seriously by many. There is so much crap out there that pass as "conspiracies" that it is absurb to even say the word to many.