Sex abuse victim in her 20s allowed by doctors to choose euthanasia due to 'incurable' PTSD

Sounds like there were some genetic mental health issues going on there along with the abuse-caused PTSD.

a reply to: TrueBrit

I read in the article that some anti choice campaigners are livid, saying that she was punished for being abused, that the punishment for being a victim is to be killed...this is clearly idiotic. Being executed is very different from being euthanised. One is a punishment, the other is a release from one or another manner of torture. It is no more moral or righteous to insist that a person live with intolerable pain, than it is to suggest killing the sick simply because they suffer.

I'd generally agree with that POV but suicide/euthanasia is surely the last resort, we are meant to fight for every breath of life and I deeply admire the people that do. People that have suffered/suffer horrible trauma yet find a way to deal with it. These are my heroes.

I'll admit I've had suicidal thoughts myself in the past so I can relate to the state of mind. But I considered loved ones and the pain it was cause them and soldiered on with my woes. I'm glad I have, I think there's truth in the sayings "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger" and "time heals everything"

I do think in there is a case for euthanasia in some situations, but not with mental health issues which is the cause of most suicides and something which can be cured or over come with enough time an effort.

I have known some soldiers who just felt like there was nowhere to go for them. It's the most tragic thing in the world especially as they are often very young, and their suffering is so injust let alone to be followed by suicide. I think some people just feel like no matter what events or miracles might occur, nothing is ever going to make waking up in the morning not be coming back to the same nightmare and they cannot imagine ever getting past it or adapting to it.

I have seen a lot of severe physiological base to this though, like nutrient-depletion (particularly of things like ascorbic and D3) which if given in hefty dose to someone truly in need (I speak from experience) can have a profound shift in "sense of personal well-being" at a really fundamental, survival-level that one doesn't even know exists or is threatened until something changes abruptly. I would hope that prior to agreeing to assisted suicide, people would have at least a month on a very intense full-spectrum nutrient intake, so whatever portion of their despair might be related to that can at least be dismissed.

Aside from that, what can you do. I come from a family of suicides historically and have had several in my generation as well. It's sure a horrible thing for everyone involved, including those remaining who loved them. But if someone wants to go, geez let's make it a gentle thing, not a pistol or drugs or whatever.

As a last note, some of the people I know who were at that point and stayed around, eventually observed something to the effect that what was most fundamentally wrong was their expectations. They assumed people were happy. They assumed they were supposed to be happy or at least content. And they were miserable and removing the abuse didn't make them un-miserable. But one day they realized there's no rule a person is supposed to be happy or even content. Maybe some people are going to be pretty miserable the rest of their lives or it seems like that, and maybe when you're tormented enough especially when young or really deeply like combat it's just never going to be otherwise. Maybe one is never going to be normal, or "free of it." There is no cosmic law saying one should be, so one has 'failed' life and will never meet that nebulous goal so why keep trying. Some people have said once they accepted that actually it was ok to be miserable and they just needed to learn to live with that in the best way possible, they actually gradually found little ways to improve things, until one day they were less miserable, and years later they ended up finding love with someone who made them even less miserable. And they were still "not over it." They were still "not free." They were still somewhat miserable. But there were other things too, in the spectrum of daily experience, and they'd learned to find the reasons for getting up in the morning.

So I guess it seems tragic that people who aren't in physical pain but might seem save-able due to that and youth, can't find that road, just to give them a chance. I think we all want them to have a chance. It's just so terribly tragic otherwise.

But I totally defend their right to make that decision. To me, the decision to live or die is the most fundamental human decision and one every human innately owns. It's time the laws of the world start recognizing this, as it sounds like they have over there moreso than here so far.

Poor girl. She is quite the survivor for making it this far.

RC

Adding: Well if she's dead now she's not a survivor any more. You're not really a victim until you're dead. Then it's pretty much set.

"It is both horrifying and worrying that mental health professionals could regard euthanasia in any form as an answer to the complex and deep wounds that result from sexual abuse."

I actually think I agree with that. I mostly- (not entirely) despise that entire profession and our culture's way of using it to begin with even outside extremes like this.

I agree with the earlier ATS member who said one can't be free of affecting-psyche-issues with severe PTSD and Anorexia.

But in the end it's just a matter of not having a choice right. I mean if someone wants to die they will. And it seems silly that we can send someone off to war to be maimed or killed horribly at barely 18 years old, but insist they can't choose to die peacefully at legal age.

I do however think that there is a massive number of people who are alive solely because they did not have the courage to kill themselves in all the horrible ways or inflict that on people who cared about them (put me in that group, more than once in my life). Making suicide almost into a "social victims' experience" and easy and seemingly pleasant seems a very dangerous precedent, and certainly radically changes a situation that has probably been the staying-hand on this issue throughout time.

a reply to: FamCore

People who are considering suicide do have mental issues. They need assistance all right. Just not into the grave.

Oh but it's becoming more popular... like we're talking about neon colored shoelaces or something.

Maybe it gets sucked into the larger "victim mentality" that modern social-media/college culture seem so fond of. A little bit of whining and suddenly hordes of people want to be your comforter and friend and hunt down the evil who offended you. It's like an accidental but pervasive cult of sorts.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: FamCore

People who are considering suicide do have mental issues. They need assistance all right. Just not into the grave.

Oh but it's becoming more popular... like we're talking about neon colored shoelaces or something.

Our culture really is about that flippant.

Again, it's a net win for TPTB . No need for wars, capitol punishment, genocide, or costly mental health clinics...just generate popular demand for assisted suicide and abortion. No more oppressors killing the oppressed! Now the oppressed can feel empowered and fight for the right to kill themselves. And even better yet, they get to pay for the honor of a tidy death.

a reply to: SisterDelirium

That'll never work. Who would be left for the oppressors to kill? This energy plays on both sides.

Actually feeling 'empowered' to pursue the right to kill yourself is so... that's a sharp insight and horrible.

a reply to: RedCairo

That'll never work. Who would be left for the oppressors to kill? This energy plays on both sides.

That's easy, anyone who doesn't hip on the bandwagon. Anyone left that views life as sacred or simply registers the whole business as absurd.

Actually feeling 'empowered' to pursue the right to kill yourself is so... that's a sharp insight and horrible.

It's true, though. People pursue their own deaths and their own destruction all the time. Usually without even realizing it. This would be a more direct and obvious approach, but I can see people doing it. I can also see people advocating for it out of the deadly combination of misguided compassion and/or peer pressure to adopt the position (as the cool new open minded thing to do).

When a young girl fears life more than she fears death, that is when you know humanity has failed.

What I find disturbing about this story is the fact that any doctors would give their okay to this. If I was a doctor, I'd opt out of those decisions for my patients.

as a dad I have to say I am not going to click on that link, no way no how

just going to say what a sad story

a reply to: pl3bscheese

If the incurable kind of PTSD doesn't affect her decision making and if it's not a major depressive disorder and if it's not serious, then why is it then being used as leverage to "let" her die? Something is off here. It's very odd...

On another note, if people want to die, what's stopping them from committing suicide themselves? Like others have pointed out, no one needs anyone else's permission to end their own life. This whole case is very odd.

originally posted by: geezlouise
a reply to: pl3bscheese

If the incurable kind of PTSD doesn't affect her decision making and if it's not a major depressive disorder and if it's not serious, then why is it then being used as leverage to "let" her die? Something is off here. It's very odd...

I wouldn't call that "leverage" I'd call that covering all bases. It's something people with common-sense would think of to initially assess. People are retrospectively analyzing this and seem to be confusing the flow. Imagine if a judge would NOT state that when making his decision. You see how off that would be?

On another note, if people want to die, what's stopping them from committing suicide themselves? Like others have pointed out, no one needs anyone else's permission to end their own life. This whole case is very odd.

Fear. It's not odd, this is a common-issue, and the reason legalized euthanasia exists in some areas in the first place.

a reply to: pl3bscheese

Actions speak louder than words. We all know fear is a great motivator, one of the best. It shouldn't be ignored, I say.

But yea, the world is getting kind of crowded and crazy. Why not prune the big pubic bush that humanity is, so that only those who will accept, tolerate, and endure all manners of abuse become worthy of life and are given permission to pass on their genes.