Everyone is agnostic

a reply to: CapstonePendulum

Everyone is only agnostic from your point of view.

I say I've had experiences. I have. I absolutely believe, utterly, beyond doubt.

But I have no way to prove that to you, so in your point of view, I can't really know. Certainly you can't really know about my claims in any tangible way that matters to you, so it is simply much easier to claim that everyone is agnostic.

I started out in my life wanting to beleive in god, hoping he was real and that one day he would reveal himself to me. I spent many years praying with no confirmation or "evidence" for me to truly beleive.

The fact that i held onto hope and was persistent in my prayers made my desperation and wanting to know god to such a degree that i wanted it with all my passion, hope and physical energy.

This is a demonstration of faith and it pleases god. Long story short i got my answers that removed all room for doubt, i didnt see gods face personally but i was filled with his spirit and given the confirmation that i seeked. Its impossible for me to explain to anyone what the experience is like to be filled with gods spirit, only those that have tasted of it can truly understand.

If you go through life thinking god will be handed to you on a plate for scientists to examine as a lab rat then your maturity is very far from ever finding god. Everyone knows nothing is handed to you on a plate in life, and the same is with god.

So does what ive explained or experienced make my experience false because i cant prove it to the world?? The sooner a non beleiver realises that you need faith to find god and his grace, and not by his own works then the closer in the right direction one will be. This is wisdom i give to non beleivers. You can pick apart what i have said and mock me all you like, it still doesn't change the fact that ive had my answers and you have not.

I think half the problem in this world is everyone is so focused on what religion is right or wrong etc god doesn't care about all that stuff, you dont need religion to pray to god on your own in your own home. It doesnt take much from your life to privately pray to god that you want to know if he is real or not. Just take 5 minutes of your day to just pray to god and want to know him with all your being. Be persistent and he WILL answer!

Moderation..... it is a thing most suited to us.
When you finally find God. Your addiction will conquer your sanity and destroy it.
There Can be no taste of god without absolute adoration for him.
He will be your only desire. We all want... And sometimes too much.
We can say for sure... that... despite everything nothing is ever enough.

Now... go tell God he needs to tone it down. Because we are only human.

If the third eye sensor did not exist and some souls did not know how to use it then your view would be logical.

There are people that is going into seek mode and go to Gnostic level where they know about the hidden. They are not agnostic since they know thru experience and are aware. The question is how much objective knowledge do they have and how much is tainted by what they have been told about the unknown.

The divine is real. But many religions have no clue and are in fact a miss direction instead of a efficient map to follow.

Christian keep talking about mysterious ways showing ignorance not knowledge. How hard is it to understand how fate manifests thru probability fields, creating entanglement that causes information exchange (telepathy) that can rise to the surface of a conscious mind. It is all about probability and how to maximize it.

a reply to: ParanoidCovKid

Good for you. .

a reply to: ketsuko
So are your experiences god given, spiritual or just unexplainable to you?

a reply to: ParanoidCovKid
It is hard to understand, especially if you do not elaborate on your experience, the sensations and what was going on in your life to desperately find god. It's impossible to relate or believe when phrases like "was filled with God's spirit" when terminology like that was used everytime we attended church. It's an echo of what was instilled from a young age.

Based on your response I would go as far to say you were desperately looking to be filled with God's spirit.

And if your from Coventry I don't believe you.lol. whole different breed up there.

a reply to: GemmyMcGemJew

Need can sometime be a key to unlock a door.

Many souls have a very hard time breaking thru even when they desperately want to.

a reply to: LittleByLittle
Need can also unlock other doors. When a need is that great you will find it anywhere you want and just fill in the blanks.

I just find it strange than god would help someone who has a comfortable life and ignore those that pray every minute in much worse situations. Baffling.

originally posted by: polyath
I understand the reasons and benefits of having proof. However, when you say proof is required - that is something different. Not having proof that God exists does not mean He doesn't exist anymore than not having proof of a conversation does not mean the conversation never took place.

Nobody's saying "God doesn't Exist". The OP is saying "Nobody Knows of God Existing". Of course that also requires everyone agrees on what God's Existence would have to be as well although that part was skipped over.

No proof of God doesn't mean he doesn't exist. True.
No proof of God doesn't mean he does exist. True.
Belief in God doesn't mean he does exit. True.
Non Belief in God doesn't mean he doesn't exist. True.

So basically "We don't know".

a reply to: LittleByLittle

Knowing how to use your third eye is not meeting God or knowing he or she exists.

Just that something greater than this life is possible.

Gnosis is a form of spiritual insight, but nothing clearly defined as meeting God.

a reply to: CapstonePendulum

Which is the most honest approach one can take because none of us actually know if God exists, or if there are multiple gods. We know only what mythology tells us. History is silent. Science offers no proof either way of God. Everything is faith. And trust in humans to accurately report unbelievable events.

First Science is not quite nor is Philosophy.

List of Arguments leading to some God:

1. Kalam Cosmological Argument based on a theory of time. Uses Science to prove premise 2 of the argument is sound.
2. Fine Tuning Argument. Uses Science to show the state of the universe is to fragile to be product of chance.
3. Ontological Argument based of S5 modal logic system developed by Alvin Plantinga, proves via deduction that maximal greatness is exemplified.
4. Moral Argument - shows the need for a God to explain the moral realm we observe in reality.



The idea that no one knows anything about God is an argument from Omniscience fallacy. You would have to know every persons situation and thoughts to make this claim. History is not silent. Pretty strong case can be made for the resurrection . Take 1 Corinthians 15 "3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. 8 Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. "

Scholars, including skeptical ones, date this portion of the text to 3-8 years after Christs death. The majority of scholars accept that he lived, was crucified under Pontius Pilate, buried in the tomb of Joseph Arimethea in Jerusalem, that this tomb was found empty 3 days later by a group of his women followers, and many of his followers believed they saw him after his death and died for this claim. These facts along with the fact that Christianity spread from Jerusalem, imo, give a good reason to accept that Jesus actually rose from the Dead. So we have plenty of reason to believe there is a creator then we get to the idea of the Resurrection with good historical reasons to believe that Jesus was who he said he was and really rose from the dead.

a reply to: mOjOm

It isn't necessary for everyone to have to agree on what God would be. If there is a God or gods. Unless you define God as this existence and we are parts of God, but again, unprovable.

But thank you for getting the point I am trying to make. God myths originally were modes of teaching hidden truths and by believing them as history the truth became lost.


Although Hindu teachings seem to be extensive and I would love to have the collection of scripture from Hinduism. I know I can read it online but it isn't the same.

originally posted by: GemmyMcGemJew
a reply to: LittleByLittle
Need can also unlock other doors. When a need is that great you will find it anywhere you want and just fill in the blanks.

I just find it strange than god would help someone who has a comfortable life and ignore those that pray every minute in much worse situations. Baffling.

If you would look into the experiences you might find patterns that would give you increased insight to what is going on.

Also the brain have been designed to not allow full awareness limiting the energy perception. Some soul take the short road thru Amagydala fear overload that will send out a distress call that will be heard. Other spend years in meditation building up the energy awareness becoming skilled in conscious control and testing what tools work best.

I have never astral projected so that ability still is a mystery to me. Just because I have not figured out the trick do not mean it is not possible.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: CapstonePendulum

Everyone is only agnostic from your point of view.

I say I've had experiences. I have. I absolutely believe, utterly, beyond doubt.

But I have no way to prove that to you, so in your point of view, I can't really know. Certainly you can't really know about my claims in any tangible way that matters to you, so it is simply much easier to claim that everyone is agnostic.

Everyone is agnostic by the definition of the word.

Whatever you have experienced only enforces your BELIEF that God exists.

You have no proof that he exists. If you can only prove it to yourself it isn't proof.

Unless I am wrong and you have been on an Enochian journey through the heavens. Then I apologize.

I believe in God myself. But I don't know him.

I am a fan of mysticism. I just don't believe mysteries are proof of God.

I live the contemplative life.

a reply to: CapstonePendulum

Well it matters in the sense that unless we are talking about the Same God or at least the same version of God or Type of God then it can't be said that neither of us know God.

If your God is the Hebrew God and my version of God is some Volcano God or something then we aren't even talking about the same thing.

If my God is something like Quantum Energy then maybe I actually do know my God exists. Although that would have nothing to do with Your God existing.

All I'm saying is that before anyone can use a Blanket statement as "Nobody can Know God" it's important to first define what God is and verify that it's the same for Everyone. Otherwise you can't be sure if that statement is true or not.

a reply to: mOjOm

My issue with the OP is using the term "agnostic" literally. Generally speaking, people use the term "agnostic" to refer to someone who is undecided on the issue. I know the entire "agnostic vs atheist" debate and yada yada...but my point is that while the OP is correct technically, it ignores how the word is actually used in everyday common speech.

a reply to: mOjOm

You know fine well no one experiences the same god. It's the safest standpoint to have and helps facilitate your own belief. If you believe that other people experience a different god than you you acknowledge you didn't have an experience with god. You simply had an experience and found comfort in it. You being everyone.

And even people who genuinely believe they spoke to god, to have the audacity to say you know god is so egocentric it's untrue. You (everyone concerned) feel u understand and know a being that created the universe and you understand him IS delusional.

a reply to: polyath

I agree. He's absolutely correct in what he's saying. Agnostic means not knowing. It's the opposite of Gnostic meaning to know.

a reply to: GemmyMcGemJew

Oh no. I don't think I know God at all. Believe me.

I'm certainly smack dab in the center of that Agnostic group.