Intelligent design theory, PROVEN

originally posted by: TzarChasm

"Job 40

15Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16 What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17 Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18 Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19 It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it... "


more likely a member of the bovine family.

A bovine would not be the Chief Creation of God - Jews thought bovines to be unclean and many to this day still do not consume them for this reason.

the tail bit was an error in translation

All Translations agree that the tail was likened to a cedar tree.

a reply to: cooperton

Jews thought bovines to be unclean and many to this day still do not consume them for this reason.

Actually its pigs they don't eat... bovine is cattle... Cows, bison and the like...

Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

Whatsoever parteth the hoof, and is clovenfooted, and cheweth the cud, among the beasts, that shall ye eat.

a reply to: Akragon

My guess is someone mistakes bovine for porcine

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Really, you want to argue my opinion with me, based on your opinion, your belief
Did you not read my comments

I thought it was quite clear that I was pointing out that the article you linked didn't really back your claim up and even if it did, it was not true.

BTW, I am a christian, I have a different opinion, I can accept you have an opinion, no matter how flawed I think it is and you are welcome to that opinion.

I was a christian so I have an idea of what your opinion is. My critique of your opinion isn't directly of your faith but of your opinion of what is proof. It isn't based on my opinion but on what constitues proof in this day and age.

I can offer no proof of what I believe to be true which is why I don't go around making threads about it being proven or even "proven".

My claim of truth was a parody, a nonsense, sorry you missed it, not dislike the claims I get shown on an all to regular basis

I was an atheist so I certainly know how they all think, I was once also A "Christian" like many claim to be, just going through the motions and never really understanding
Not that I want to patronise you and your beliefs or lack thereof.

What constitutes proof is an opinion, scientific theory is when scientists all agree that someone's opinion sounds valider, that's the proof.
Sorry, doesn't cut it for me

originally posted by: Raggedyman
My claim of truth was a parody, a nonsense, sorry you missed it, not dislike the claims I get shown on an all to regular basis

I didn't miss it it just isn't as logical as you think it is.

I was an atheist so I certainly know how they all think, I was once also A "Christian" like many claim to be, just going through the motions and never really understanding
Not that I want to patronise you and your beliefs or lack thereof.

I wouldn't have said I was a christian if I had just been a sunday christian.

What constitutes proof is an opinion, scientific theory is when scientists all agree that someone's opinion sounds valider, that's the proof.
Sorry, doesn't cut it for me

Why go on about it on the internet?

When a group of people can agree then it sure is more valid than one person saying that that god talks to them through a light socket in their bedroom.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
My claim of truth was a parody, a nonsense, sorry you missed it, not dislike the claims I get shown on an all to regular basis

I didn't miss it it just isn't as logical as you think it is.

I was an atheist so I certainly know how they all think, I was once also A "Christian" like many claim to be, just going through the motions and never really understanding
Not that I want to patronise you and your beliefs or lack thereof.

I wouldn't have said I was a christian if I had just been a sunday christian.

What constitutes proof is an opinion, scientific theory is when scientists all agree that someone's opinion sounds valider, that's the proof.
Sorry, doesn't cut it for me

Why go on about it on the internet?

When a group of people can agree then it sure is more valid than one person saying that that god talks to them through a light socket in their bedroom.

Why go on about it on the net?

Why not, what are you saying

In case you didnt notice, there are two ideologies, two camps, two groups.
I disagree with evolution and the pseudo science used to propagate it, I have an opinion and a voice, I want to explain my reasoning, question those who have a different opinion.
Would you prefer I be silenced?
Question theory?
Question heard mentality?
Remove my right to post?

God doesnt talk to me through a light socket, I am not an individual in these beliefs on creation, a good majority of people dont believe in evolution and for very good reason

What are you here for?

The Unbelief of the Jews
…26But because you are not My sheep, you refuse to believe. 27 My sheep listen to My voice; I know them, and they follow Me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.…

John 10:4
When he has brought out all who are his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice.

John 10:14
I am the good shepherd. I know My sheep and My sheep know Me,

You claim to have been a christian, more than a Sunday christian
I was interacting with a ex christian of 7 years on this forum, they had no idea of the bibles teachings, none at all.
I am supposed to believe you are better, more knowledgeable, wiser.

I am convinced that you can claim christianity 7 days a week, pray constantly and still have no idea, still have a hard heart.
I have been down that road.

originally posted by: Raggedyman

God doesnt talk to me through a light socket, I am not an individual in these beliefs on creation,

so herd mentality?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Why not, what are you saying

You have reduced it to "we really only have individual opinions". I don't agree but if that is your point then there is nothing left to say.

What you seem to be trying to do is to get the other camp to accept that it only has an opinion by accepting that all you have is an opinion and that is not really working.

God doesnt talk to me through a light socket

Nobody said he did but your reaction says a lot. What's wrong with someone being of the opinion that god talks to them through a light socket?

I was interacting with a ex christian of 7 years on this forum, they had no idea of the bibles teachings, none at all.
I am supposed to believe you are better, more knowledgeable, wiser.

Who cares what you think we all just get to have different but equal opinions.

originally posted by: choos
so herd mentality?

Yeah, he herd it from the light socket.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Why not, what are you saying

You have reduced it to "we really only have individual opinions". I don't agree but if that is your point then there is nothing left to say.

What you seem to be trying to do is to get the other camp to accept that it only has an opinion by accepting that all you have is an opinion and that is not really working.

God doesnt talk to me through a light socket

Nobody said he did but your reaction says a lot. What's wrong with someone being of the opinion that god talks to them through a light socket?

I was interacting with a ex christian of 7 years on this forum, they had no idea of the bibles teachings, none at all.
I am supposed to believe you are better, more knowledgeable, wiser.

Who cares what you think we all just get to have different but equal opinions.

Must be reading something into what I say


We are all individuals, we all have an opinion, we base our opinions on what we learn and who we learn it off, our own understandings.
You infer i state that "we really only have individual opinions", do I, or am I discussing a certain topic, like the one in this thread? You read my statement as a blanket comment, was it or are you just hearing what you want to hear
You can decide

Then you infer that I questioned anyone who said "god talks to them through a light socket" when in fact I said nothing like that at all, I said "God doesnt talk to me through a light socket"
You playing at games ???

Who cares what I think, not you evidently, no loss.
Maybe someone else might, maybe someone else enjoys this as much as I do

Anyway, here I am
Still

Cmon Dask, you can do better, surely?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Must be reading something into what I say

We are all individuals, we all have an opinion, we base our opinions on what we learn and who we learn it off, our own understandings.
You infer i state that "we really only have individual opinions", do I, or am I discussing a certain topic, like the one in this thread? You read my statement as a blanket comment, was it or are you just hearing what you want to hear
You can decide

Of course. You said

I disagree with evolution and the pseudo science used to propagate it, I have an opinion and a voice, I want to explain my reasoning, question those who have a different opinion.

This is after asking why the other side doesn't try to see it from your side. What for if you are just going to tell them that they are not looking at it the right way.

Then you infer that I questioned anyone who said "god talks to them through a light socket" when in fact I said nothing like that at all, I said "God doesnt talk to me through a light socket"
You playing at games ???

No, I did not. I said your reaction to that statement says a lot. Your reaction was one of quick distancing from it as if it was a bad thing. What else can that mean?

Who cares what I think, not you evidently, no loss.
Maybe someone else might, maybe someone else enjoys this as much as I do

Hey it would be a ball if you had a good argument.

a reply to: daskakik

Yeah ok Dask, you win, your argument is better

Thanks, i will do what ever you want, believe what you tell me, all good

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Yeah ok Dask, you win, your argument is better

Thanks, i will do what ever you want, believe what you tell me, all good

I don't think you have understood my argument.

I also never asked you to do what I say or believe what I say.

You asked people to try and see your side of things. As soon as I said "hey I have seen that side" you automatically dismiss it because, I can only assume, that I didn't stick with it. What is it that you want to discuss? Because, you don't really seem to be all that open to discussion.

To me it seems like you want the other camp to just accept your idea that science is just based on opinions. That is all I am getting from your posts.

If nothing else, I would just ike to say that that is how your call for discussion comes off.

originally posted by: daskakik

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Yeah ok Dask, you win, your argument is better

Thanks, i will do what ever you want, believe what you tell me, all good

I don't think you have understood my argument.

I also never asked you to do what I say or believe what I say.

You asked people to try and see your side of things. As soon as I said "hey I have seen that side" you automatically dismiss it because, I can only assume, that I didn't stick with it. What is it that you want to discuss? Because, you don't really seem to be all that open to discussion.

To me it seems like you want the other camp to just accept your idea that science is just based on opinions. That is all I am getting from your posts.

If nothing else, I would just like to say that that is how your call for discussion comes off.

I dont think you get it either Dask, I dont even think you want to get it

I dont mind that they think their beliefs in evolution is a science, that because a few scientists agree with each others theory, the theory becomes better, more valid than any one elses and is termed a science.
I dont mind.
My point is evolution is a best guess, its still a belief, just a belief that a few more people agree on and have written on paper.
It cant get any simpler to understand than that, dirt and water, life, evolution, its pure fantasy, fantasy for secularists. Simple

I am not asking them to see my side, just see the illusions on their side.

Discussion, I read your child like comebacks, its not a discussion, what makes you think its a discussion, its bickering children Pack mentality and light sockets, what?

Tell me dask, did you ever believe in creation and why?
You have probably never seen my side, no matter what you think you know.

All I want to get across to the average person is that the scientific theory is a faith statement that scientists agree on, it is nothing more, its baseless

"Every scientific theory starts as a hypothesis. According to the Merriam-Webster Dictionary, a hypothesis is an idea that hasn't been proven yet.If enough evidence accumulates to SUPPORT a hypothesis, it moves to the next step— known as a theory — in the scientific method and becomes accepted as a valid explanation of a phenomenon." - See more at: www.livescience.com...

Note the bolded, the word is support, its not PROVE

Get it

a reply to: Raggedyman
Evolutionary theory is an explanation for the observed changes in organisms over time.

You do not offer any theory, you deny that organisms change over time. Or, more accurately, you deny that changes can accumulate.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
My point is evolution is a best guess, its still a belief, just a belief that a few more people agree on and have written on paper.
It cant get any simpler to understand than that, dirt and water, life, evolution, its pure fantasy, fantasy for secularists. Simple

I get it but I also get that they are applying their own set of rules. This adds context. They know that there are gaps and they fill them with their best guess but these are just placeholders. That is how it looks to me.

Discussion, I read your child like comebacks, its not a discussion, what makes you think its a discussion, its bickering children Pack mentality and light sockets, what?

What do you expect when you sling poo at me for saying that I was a christian?

Tell me dask, did you ever believe in creation and why?
You have probably never seen my side, no matter what you think you know.

There you go slinging more poo. I actually lean towards creation but I don't accept your version.

But that is just a shift in goal posts. How did god come into existance? Or in my version how did the programners of this "video game" come into existance? Still no answer to either of those questions.

All I want to get across to the average person is that the scientific theory is a faith statement that scientists agree on, it is nothing more, its baseless

It's a better story than the bible. It's a better description than most creation myths.

In my opinion science is having a better go at finding the answers than anything before it. Is it incomplete? Of course but that is the nature of things.

Its shortcomings do not add validity to archaic ideas.

a reply to: daskakik

It is just a guess I think it wrong to call evolution a fact, simple
That's my argument, it's not a fact

I said I didn't think you were a christian, it didn't sound like you were, if that offends you I am sorry
I know many many people who attend church and I doubt their christianity, figured considering you left the church you probably realized that and would happily acknowledge that
You said you were a Christian like me, how would you know that, how would I know what kind of Christian you were, if indeed you were. How do you know what kind of Christian I am

From my perspective you had no relationship with God, I base that on the simple fact you are no longer a christian, simple logic if you think about it, simple

And then I am slinging more poo, I ask a question about your beliefs in creation, how's that slinging poo, unless of course if you think that I don't believe Christians who accept evolution are christian.
Now that would be wrong, very wrong
So
I guess that leads on to your final point
Science and evolution sounds better than creation myth
Yeah from a secular perspective, I agree, still stupid but
Magic dust, magic water, magic abiogenesis and magic evolving to incredible design
Sounds good, actually fits, almost logical, the evidence even indicates that as it's found, evolution is still impossible according to science but I agree
It is having a better go at finding an answer...because it has to, it has no choice, it can't handle the idea of supernatural creation

See I was once an atheist who believed in evolution, just like you are now

Evolution is an archaic idea with as many shortcomings, invalid, even science can't find anything to justify it than a rocky theory, based on a few well paid men who want to be even more well paid

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman
Evolutionary theory is an explanation for the observed changes in organisms over time.

You do not offer any theory, you deny that organisms change over time. Or, more accurately, you deny that changes can accumulate.

Is that a question, statement, seems no question marks in your statement
I guess you want to control what you want me to say, you choose my words and phrase them to strengthen your argument

So you say I deny that organisms change over time, where?
Deny changes accumulate, where?

You can only look a fool going down this road, hey your call

How about you showing me evidence of a species changing into another species, that's it.
You can then win the Internet

originally posted by: Raggedyman

So you say I deny that organisms change over time, where?
Deny changes accumulate, where?

do you deny the evolutionary process?

How about you showing me evidence of a species changing into another species, that's it.

if you have a few million years of time to spare.

a reply to: choos

Yes the sun does rise choos
From underneath the flat side of the earth where all they have is black and white tv