The Mandela Effect Can No Longer Be Denied: Berenstein Was The Tip of The Iceberg

a reply to: noonebutme

Ofc he is lying, he is a textbook troll..
In any case, I cant believe people are STILL going on about LIAYF.
That has been explained and debunked so many times now.


To thread: Focus on the more troubling ME-s, like anatomy changes and geography changes please :/
Disregard soundalikes, pop-cultural reference type misconceptions - which LIAYF is textbook example of -
and what is left are the true MEs, the ones shared over the globe, regarding the anatomy and geography.

The fact that so many swear they remember it correctly means they are suffering.
And that should be discussed and put into focus.

Someone mentioned support groups and I would recommend that.
I would also recommend trying to "sort" the ME-ers into different groups.
Group A shares THOSE memories. Group B shares THOSE memories. And so on.
That would make it very easy for the ME-ers to identify themselves, and they could talk amongst themselves knowing they share the same manipulated/injected memories - and can more easily come to terms with it - learn tactics from one another for coping - and so on.

The person from Swe who I invited here, is just now starting to realize everything that "changed" for him, and he is not doing well, and could use support from others. I just hope he comes on here, cause he needs it.

a reply to: alienDNA

and what is left are the true MEs, the ones shared over the globe, regarding the anatomy and geography.

The fact that so many swear they remember it correctly means they are suffering.

Why are they suffering? Anatomy and geography are broad, specialized fields of knowledge. I could not tell you how many bones there are in the hand, or where Tuvalo is relative to Manila. If I were to guess, then look the facts up, I would not suffer just because I guessed wrong. If anything, I would be delighted because I learned something new.

The most dramatic "ME"s have obvious explanations: misrepresentation in popular culture. The heart is frequently portrayed in cartoons in a completely unrealistic way. Anyone who has taken classes in First Aid and CPR, as I have, can tell you that the heart has always been just under the sternum, and the diaphragm just under that.

As a test of my theory, I will make a prediction: at some point, someone will claim that the Panama Canal has "changed." Instead of going East to West, connecting the Atlantic Ocean with the Pacific Ocean, it now runs North-South. It has always run North-South, due to local geography, although our habit of thinking of the Atlantic being in the east and the Pacific in the west makes us assume that the canal runs that way.

Another prediction: someone will claim that Japanese Americans were interred in Alcatraz during the Second World War. In fact, they were interred on Angel Island, another island in San Francisco Bay.

Speaking of San Francisco, someone is bound to remember that the Golden Gate Bridge was destroyed in the Loma Prieta earthquake of 1989. It was the Bay Bridge that was damaged. They may even claim that they remember seeing a video of it.



It was the Tacoma Narrows bridge.

a reply to: DJW001

Theyre suffering simply because they SWEAR they remember it correctly.
They can NOT look themselves in the mirror and calmly say "youre just remembering wrong".
It doesnt work.
You should know that, youve been in the thread as long as me - logic, reasoning, scientific evidence - nothing reaches these people.

Which means to them - for all intents and purposes - their false memories are REAL.

That means they ARE indeed, suffering.

a reply to: alienDNA

The Buddha taught that suffering is caused by delusion. If they want to transcend their suffering, they need to let go of their delusions. Doing this requires them to let go of their ego, even if it means admitting to themselves that they are fallible.

a reply to: alienDNA

your silly biases towards me

I have no 'silly biases' towards you. I do question your motives, due to some chopping and changing of your position, but I do see that in the more recent pages you've been a little more straightforward. It's everyone else who really concerns me, and I don't see them changing any time soon.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

my motives were always the same, it was my methods that were wrong.

a reply to: TombEscaper

Also, the fact that the Old Testament of the KJ has "piss" all over it (literally) is rather bizarre.

...

Here are two:

So and more also do God unto the enemies of David, if I leave of all that pertain to him by the morning light any that pisseth against the wall. (1 Samuel 25:22)


Hath he not sent me to the men which sit on the wall, that they may eat their own dung, and drink their own piss with you? (2 Kings 18:27)

Now there's another one - how bizarre! I would certainly have known, had the word 'piss' been included in the scriptures. I'm absolutely convinced of it. And I agree, that certain types of commentators would have leapt on the chance to reference the use of the word. Utterly intriguing. I concur, that the whole 'Biblical Mandela Effects' situation is likely to blow up into a maelstrom of argument & angst.

a reply to: DJW001

True. I guess I should stop caring then.. although I wont!
Guess Ill just be wasting my time in here like everyone else then!

a reply to: alienDNA

a reply to: LoneCloudHopper2

again that fits perfectly into my theory of memory manipulation or implantation by a mk ultra type of program.
but if no one wants to discuss that, then I guess I'll have to concede. you win.

Just to be clear, I really don't mind discussing any particular theory on how this all could have come about. It's only when the theory is couched in terms which render respectful discussions moot that I clam up & can't be bothered. However, you have phrased it perfectly reasonably here, and so I will happily discuss the theory.

I feel for certain that there is an element of MK-Ultra type mind-control/ mental conditioning occurring as part & parcel of this phenomenon. The only way that I see I disagree quite significantly with you in this area, is that you believe it is a human element which is carrying out the psy-op, whereas I believe quite strongly that humans don't have the resources or reach to program so many people in such a manner. I firmly believe it is the creepy creatures which feature in your signature who are responsible. People often refer to them as 'aliens', but I don't believe they are truly extraterrestrial as a scientist would understand the term. I think they've been present in our solar system for many thousands, if not tens or even hundreds of thousands of years, known to ancient philosophers as 'Archons', or 'rulers'. I believe they are a semi-organic android race, originally created by 'the first gods' (who have long since either gone extinct, or gone into the shadows).

I believe these 'Archons' have at their disposal phenomenally advanced technologies, and that the Mandela Effect is orchestrated by them using a combination of reality manipulation & mind control. That's the other aspect we disagree on - you believe that reality hasn't fundamentally changed, whereas I do. I believe that the psy-op is being conducted in support of the reality manipulation, which is being achieved by a version of time travel with the potential to enable slight changes to the timeline. In my theory, the timeline 'congeals' around the changes made, assimilating into a pattern of best fit, so that all pieces on the board are shuffled into the closest match that could be achieved after the change has been made. I believe this is due to some sort of cosmological constant, by which the timeline seeks to remain intact, or as true to itself as is possible, and I labelled this as 'the narrative purity constant'.

I respect your view that the whole thing is generated by a psy-op, but raise two questions.. Firstly, how could humans pull this off? Don't you think this is far too massive to have been coordinated by a secret human faction? Secondly, with the Mandela Effect memories each displaying quite stunning similarity of manifestation, in terms of the memories of those who are experiencing a particular ME (their remembering of the eact same alternative memory), can you really maintain that an actual change absolutely has not occurred? I fully understand that unless we gain access to remarkable new areas of scientific understanding, perhaps relating to the quantum/electro-gravitic fields, or whatever, we cannot prove the Mandela Effect changes as having been real occurrences - but is it beyond the realm of logic, if we can provisionally accept that perhaps we are dealing with a foe which is far more technologically advanced than we are?

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Just to be clear, I really don't mind discussing any particular theory on how this all could have come about.

Excellent. Please explain why you prefer to inject pseudo-scientific explanations into the conversation when simple logic and common sense, not to mention neuro-biology, can explain the "phenomenon" easily? In my post above, I have predicted several potential "Mandela Effect" experiences based upon common mis-perceptions. Are you able to use your theories to predict specific "changes" like that?

a reply to: alienDNA

I believe this weapon will be used in full scale and this being one of the tests, in order to fully calibrate the device whatever it is.

Now that's an interesting thought - could it be a device that has been created, rather than a series of MK-Ultra type abductions/programming sessions? I can buy into that idea a little bit, because I believe that if the Archons were responsible, they would be using a device with a wide reach. I just wonder whether us humans have been able to construct anything with so much potential to mess with the minds of the populace. I edge on the side of it not being humanly possible, but all it takes is one genius & the right amount of support for his theories, and of course the intent to manipulate.

a reply to: DJW001

It's not pseudo-science, it's more like sci-fi speculation. Which I'm perfectly entitled to, considering this is in Skunkworks, and deals with a phenomenon which cannot be fully explained by modern scientific understanding (as far as I can tell). And no, I don't believe that this is rooted in aberrant psychology, but that is my entitlement - I don't have to believe the same as you, so please try to respect my right to speculate freely. Here in the UK we believe in freedom of expression, freedom of thought & belief. If that changes, you could apply to the UK government for a role as 'conditioner of the masses', I guess that might suit you well.

a reply to: Profusion

You've made up a new modified definition of fate to fit your theory.

I'm not quite sure what your problem is. I thought we were here to discuss, think & create new ideas..? My theory is by no means fixed, never was - I even said at the first offering that it was loosely thrown together from some thoughts I had. Why does my theory have to be a fixed entity, and why are you claiming that I'm 'making stuff up'..? I'm speculating, and I'm perfectly happy to adjust my theory as time goes by, as new questions are asked, and new ideas come to mind. You have a serious attitude problem - you've selected me from among all the participants who hold that the ME is real, and only me, for the attacks on my character? What about me, or my theory, is so disturbing that you're trying to assassinate my character, despite us being technically on the same side of the debate? Seriously pissed off with your conduct.

a reply to: Profusion

You seem unwilling to consider that people could be shifting between realities.

I'm more than willing to consider the idea, I just don't think it fully describes the Mandela Effect as we're witnessing it. I do in fact believe that the Woolpit story is most likely genuine, and as such, probably represents a reality shift for those two children. I still can't really comprehend why you're being so aggressive towards me, when we both hold that the Mandela Effect is legitimate.

My absolte honest answer, to your question of why I don't accept multiple realities as being the root cause of the Mandela Effect, is because I think it's less viable than a single reality being manipuated by a hidden hand. And that's an acceptable answer. If you don't like my theory, don't believe it - but quit with the attacks please, it's just ill manners.

And incidentally, to assume more than one reality when we only have evidence for one, is making more assumptions than I have in my case of one reality being manipulated. More realities = more assumptions. Infinite realities = infinite assumptions. The assumptions argument as a debunking technique for yourself, therefore, does not cut the cheese.

a reply to: alienDNA

Fair enough.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I am open to the possibility that David Icke is correct about the moon being something more than just a moon.
I also am not completely against the idea that the nazis succeeded in building a base on the moon.
Of course in joint efforts with both Russia, USA, and China.

Therefore, it is not highly unlikely, that this sort of experiment would take place remotely, from the moon. (I do not think people live up there, its remote controlled if anything).

That way, it wouldnt require that big of a device to reach the masses on earth, given the distance. Just a huge amount of power.

Given the fact that technology for the elite is decades and decades beyond the public technology, theyre possibly using cold fusion, fusion, or another atomic power source.

That could theoretically be enough power for whatever device they got there.

-----

Another possible theory, or at least an idea -
is the use of HAARP (yes I know...) to bounce signals from earth to the ionosphere, back down to earth again.
ELF an other such types of signals could be used in conjunction - as those types of signals have been shown to disrupt thought and cognitive functions.

(whoever said my mind wasnt open, here you go )

There are of course, endless ideas of how a device like that could work, and function.
At least I dont believe it to be out the window.
Even if my ideas sound completely ridiculous - they are still grounded in reality more so than a physical change in the world, that only ME-ers can see / parallel universes colliding - and other such type of sci-fi ideas.

At least, it makes more sense to me, at this point.
That said, I will most likely change my mind again in the near future, possibly many times - until I find an idea or theory that best suits reality given the current evidence.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

And I dont think its a stretch for many of us on ATS to see that the intent of the Elite is malicious.
And yes, my contention all along for this theory I have currently, is ONE device, and not small MK ultra types of programs conducted locally. But one grande device.

The Archons are a fascinating idea, fits into Muslims Djinn, the Naga, and ofc the Archons of Gnosticism.
But there isnt any real evidence to support that they exist.

I did believe in the existence of demons, especially demons feeding on fear as their primary energy source.
I used to have vivid nightmares, alot of sleep paralysis, and I always used to envision myself being sucked dry - cause when I awoke I was more tired then when I went to sleep.

However after a few years, that went away and I realized it was only symptoms of my panic disorder and depression. And those symptoms went away, and I have not had such a dream in over 4 years.

Im still open to the idea of demons existing beyond our "line of sight" - but since there arent any real evidence to support it, Ill lay that idea on the shelf until such evidence presents itself.
And before you say there ARE evidence, -
I must say, I do not take subjective experiences as evidence, nor any Scriptures.

So yes, its most likely all man made.


a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

Thank you.

i.imgur.com...

interesting map, drawn by an ME sufferer.

a reply to: FlyInTheOintment

I am fairly sure the word "piss" was not there before.

I ran across 2 verses that used words that seemed like they were out of place although I have not read them in a very long time. Matthew 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel. Gnat? thought that to be a more modern word. In verse 25: "....they are full of extortion and excess". Extortion? Seems quite modern.

a reply to: alienDNA

Good post. Glad we're having fruitful discussion rather than argumentalism!



Interesting to consider the Moon as being a possible part of this jigsaw puzzle. I've been a fan of lunar conspiracies for a long time. Have you ever read 'Penetration' by Ingo Swann? He goes into some detail on a particular remote viewing assignment he was allegedly given, and describes how he 'viewed' some sort of active Moon base, with humans operating there (though in a rather peculiar detail, they were naked..?!)

I hadn't realised David Icke was also a lunar theorist - I thought he was a strictly reptilian man, but you learn something new every day. And with regards to HAARP, I suppose that if humans were responsible for mass memory manipulation, then HAARP would be the most likely sort of tool being used for the purpose, due to its wide-scale reach.