Abortion doctors would lose medical licenses under new Oklahoma bill

a reply to: Bone75

Ya sorry..people need to stop breeding at this point..bringing more into this f'd up world with shrinking resources is selfish.
Anyway..Roe vs Wade.

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: windword

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

Name one unselfish reason to bring a child into the world.

If you're raped and wind up pregnant against your will, but have have the child anyway... that is a selfless act.

Will that rapist have parental rights?

That actually did happen.

The rapist, in jail, sued to have visitation with the child - - - and won.

I know it happens.

Not only with the father, but his parents. Grandparent rights.

We almost had a problem with my grandson's other grandmother. She tried to sue for custody, saying we were drug addicts and my daughter was an unfit mother (total fabrication). But, because the father died (cancer) before signing the birth certificate, she had no legal rights. Thankfully.

She, the other grandmother, is an abuser of prescription meds and alcohol. She's a trust fund "baby" and could have kept us in court proceedings for years.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

Bringing a child into this world is about yourself.

Bringing a child into the world for no other reason than to propagate the species isn't selfish.

Yes it is.

Over 7 billion people on this earth. The propagate argument doesn't hold up.

a reply to: burgerbuddy

Lol!!!!

You as funny as I am.

You're not funny.

And if a woman and her doctor decide an abortion is prudent - it is nunya. Ever.

a reply to: dawnstar

Thanks for explaining just how dangerous pregnancy is. It is considered a "life-threatening emergency" - maternal death in childbirth STILL HAPPENS. Even in hospitals.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

and these guys are cheering on a law that would leave doctors no option but to sit on their arse till the mother either goes critical (possibly too late by then), or the heartbeat stops.
maybe we should ban coronary bypass surgery also?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: BuzzyWigs

and these guys are cheering on a law that would leave doctors no option but to sit on their arse till the mother either goes critical (possibly too late by then), or the heartbeat stops.
maybe we should ban coronary bypass surgery also?

If there's any doctors left in OK.

Reading, from various sites, the changing demography of Oklahoma is interesting.

originally posted by: Annee

If there's any doctors left in OK.

Not all doctors are cold-blooded baby killers. Now they'll have a place where they can go to save lives instead of ending them.

a reply to: Bone75

No doctors are being forced to perform abortions!

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

If there's any doctors left in OK.

Not all doctors are cold-blooded baby killers. Now they'll have a place where they can go to save lives instead of ending them.

A fetus is not a baby.

A potential human is not a human.

If a doctor is willing to be controlled in this way - - - that's his business. I doubt most are.

a reply to: dawnstar

I hope you meant this as an "I know, right?!!" response.

These guys are asshats. I was thinking about commenting that I see it beginning - states going 'rogue' enough that we can actually "move to a better neighborhood" (another state entirely) if we don't like the state's "druthers." I'd be perfectly happy moving to Colorado and letting the Bible-types have Kansas, for example. We are mutually ill-suited to one another as it is.

Kansas is pretty bad, but, well Oklahoma is a whole nuther place.....

a reply to: windword

"We" would be each sides of an argument.

I am in the group that women should not get an abortion because they do not want to care for a child. Whether it be financial, social, or whatever other reason, I do not believe it should be done.

Now there are distinct instances where I think abortion is acceptable: rape victims, when the pregnancy is introducing a serious health concern for the mother, and if the child has serious health concerns. Those are obviously very personal decisions that only the individuals in the situation have the answer for.

For those who do not want a kid, put them up for adoption. Yes the foster system is not perfect and can be difficult for those kids, but that should be a focus and not aborting babies as a matter of convenience.

One of the biggest issues I see is the lack of personal responsibility when women argue they want an abortion. If they do not want to have a baby, don't get pregnant. If they do not want to get pregnant, practice safe sex. It's not that difficult. I do not like the assumption that these women are victims of circumstance.

I also don't agree with the argument that it's the woman's body and it's their right to do what they want. Women have the wonderful opportunity to carry and bring a child into this world. When another human enters the equation, it is no longer just about the woman's rights.

At 22 weeks the baby's heart is beating. I count that as a living being and not a bundle of cells.

Sorry for the long post. I just kept going there.

a reply to: ArnoldNonymous

So, when you say that "we" need to look at abortion differently, you really mean that the people that disagree with your puritan values and your viewpoint need to look at abortion differently.

That's what I thought.

Roe V Wade isn't broke, and there's no need to fix it. There's no need to punish woman by forcing them to give birth because some people disapprove of their sexuality.

a reply to: windword

No you misunderstood, "we" on all sides. There needs to be a debate that discusses the issue at hand. Not debates like political candidates do. A true debate is meant to edify and help everyone better understand the opposing argument.

There's no reason to attack and call me a puritan. I never suggested it's my way or the highway.

I disagree with Roe V Wade in some cases, but I don't want to get into it now. The truth is there have been laws passed throughout history that have been amended and changed. And some of those laws have been changed later on.

I don't accept that every law in America is just. There needs to be discussion and debate on the issues. Insults and arguments solve nothing.

a reply to: buster2010

You can chalk this up to the raft of other Christian-led laws being passed in several states right now. It's all a symptom of the same problem - the Christian Republicans know they are losing power and influence over the public and they are trying everything they can to pass laws giving them authority back over others.

The bathroom bills, the removal of LGBT protections, the refusal to provide same sex marriage, the attempt in Utah to start making porn illegal...

Unfortunately, you can expect to see more of this until these people are voted out of positions of power. They're becoming more and more desperate and attempting to shove through all the laws they can to give their ultra-conservative base a feeling of empowerment.

Thankfully this is all temporary. Every time they pass a law like this all they're really doing is giving them a momentary boost of confidence while another few hundred thousand voters reject them and their party.

And yes, I know it's not ALL Republicans, but seeing as it's the Republican politicians promoting all these religiously-led bs laws that's the party people are now increasingly associating to ridiculous laws, bigotry, sexism and general Tea Bagger nonsense.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Annee

If there's any doctors left in OK.

Not all doctors are cold-blooded baby killers. Now they'll have a place where they can go to save lives instead of ending them.

And you'll be there paying 100x more tax to take care of all the kids being born to rape victims, abuse victims, teenage mothers and people who are in no state to care for their new child... right?

How about this for a solution?

Hoe about all those ignorant, preaching, bible bashing freaks pass laws to provide PROPER SEX EDUCATION to their kids? How about they pass laws FOR FREE BIRTH CONTROL FOR ALL? How about they pass laws for PROPER BASIC SEXUAL HEALTH CLINICS?

Then, maybe in ten years time the rate of abortions will be so low as to not be an issue for you!

But no, that won't happen, because the same people who want to end abortions are the same people who still stick to the bs notion that young women "praising Jesus!" is all the sex education they need, that "praying" is enough to prevent unwanted pregnancy in mothers barely able to look after themselves, that rape victims should just "deal with it".

Sorry, but this kind of religiously driven utter ignorance makes me damn mad.

originally posted by: ArnoldNonymous
There needs to be a debate that discusses the issue at hand.

No, there doesn't.

If you don't agree with abortion, don't have one.

Do not interfere in my life, my beliefs, etc - - - making laws that deny my rights - - - because of your belief.

Keep your belief to yourself.

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: buster2010

Tell you what when they make an artificial womb that can be implanted into a man so he can carry the baby if the woman doesn't want it till then a woman should have every right to do with their body as they please.

Until then?

I'd say your position could use a little refining.

What part of a woman has a right to decide what happens to her own body is hard to understand.

originally posted by: Rocker2013

Thankfully this is all temporary. Every time they pass a law like this all they're really doing is giving them a momentary boost of confidence while another few hundred thousand voters reject them and their party.

Yes, we are moving in the right direction - - - even though "they" (mostly Fundies) try to push their "power trips" here and there.

I've been watching it since the the challenge to prayer in public school, early 60s.

a reply to: ArnoldNonymous

What Annee said!

No, there doesn't. If you don't agree with abortion, don't have one. Do not interfere in my life, my beliefs, etc - - - making laws that deny my rights - - - because of your belief.

ArnoldNonymous:
There needs to be a debate that discusses the issue at hand.

What issues are those?