The Rich and the Rest

a reply to: Aazadan

I will say though that Norway does get to benefit from the protection of our military.

Let's say hypothetically if we backed out of NATO how much of Norways social programs would get cut and spent on the military?

a reply to: onequestion

Not many, like the US Norway is in a relatively secure position geographically. They have few land borders and an ocean to protect them. They're also an oil exporter and that buys friends. That aside, it's remarkably cheap and easy to defend ones territory these days. The price is often paid in blood, but it requires few dollars to defend. It's attacking which is expensive. Even with the US doing what we do, Norway has enough of a defensive military to deter most attacks and they have buffer states to insulate them from someone like Russia.

So, they might cut back a bit, and pay more to a collective defense, but it wouldn't be all that much.

There are other methods to go about things though. This is a method I thought up a couple years ago. Off and on I've since refined it so it's not fully up to date, but go ahead and read
www.abovetopsecret.com...

(actually, going by the comments you've already read it once)

The jist of it for those that don't want to read, is that everyone has an innate value just for existing, so create a fiat/electronic currency given out to everyone. As this currency is spent in stores it's removed from the system. Periodically return all removed currency to the people in equal proportion.

Require this currency to buy non food/shelter/transportation related products. And then create an exchange where people can buy this currency from others for dollars, when they don't have enough to buy the product they want.

By doing this, you get an entirely market controlled solution where the poor always have an asset they can sell for food and rent and even a way for them to save money. It would do away with almost all welfare programs currently in the US. As it's effectively a basic income for those who need it, and extra luxuries for those who don't.

a reply to: onequestion

After 60 odd years of living and working in this world I have concluded that there no direct link between effort and reward. I.e, reward is not directly proportional to effort.

Its not how hard you work that counts its how much you are rewarded that counts. However, I guess for those who like to split hairs and pick holes I must add this disclaimer.

Its highly unlikely that the vast majority of people will get rich unless they work hard and they take risks like workers do who take on hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of debt to buy a home when they have no guarantee of employment, when their Just.Over.Broke could end tomorrow.

a reply to: Azureblue

I agree I see complete randomness.

Almost a luck or destiny involved.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Azureblue

I agree I see complete randomness.

Almost a luck or destiny involved.

Almost a luck or destiny Very perceptive.

I am a big believer that while we all can influence the course of our lives to some extent, we set the basic course of our lives before we are born. When we are born we also born with the circumstances, tools, the inclination, the talent, the abilities etc we need to learn the lessons we set ourselves.
etc.

a reply to: Azureblue
. I think ego accounts for many perspectives.

I totally agree about how your brown into a set of circumstances


Our environment provides us with a specific set of variables and I do think we can influence those variables especially as time goes but think about it...

We can't escape earth, the earth is an environmental variables we are born with and have to contend with.

But we can change it and make it better.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: eluryh22

Here you go discussing nothing substance again.

Try addressing the Op and refuting individual points.

Use a few quotes.

If you can't do that then the discussion with you is over.

It seems the discussion never began.

You've stated...

I already told you I'm here to discuss ways to make a better world out of this mess.

I'm trying to figure out and problem solve pathways buts that's impossible without open conversations and multiple perspectives.

Why don't you actually read the article and address individual points and offer solutions yourself instead of simply propagating your overly used one liners that we've all read 100 times and participate in a discussion like everyone else?

The question you really have to ask yourself is... In a society that favors and values wealth over hard work does working hard really get you ahead anymore?

I understand that you want to make things better but nowhere in this thread have you mentioned a single way to do this. Essentially, you are just complaining and moaning and whenever anybody else makes a suggestion that doesn't fit your narrative or has an opinion that doesn't fit with your own, you try (I'm assuming successfully in your own mind) to dismiss them.

I've explained myself enough throughout this thread so I believe anyone reading through it would get an idea about my philosophy. I won't go through all of that again but I'll say even in this messed up system we have, I believe people have a greater role in their future and lives than some would believe. Based on your posts, I'm not sure whether or not you agree.

Good luck with that.

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Azureblue

I agree I see complete randomness.

Almost a luck or destiny involved.

Almost a luck or destiny Very perceptive.

I am a big believer that while we all can influence the course of our lives to some extent, we set the basic course of our lives before we are born. When we are born we also born with the circumstances, tools, the inclination, the talent, the abilities etc we need to learn the lessons we set ourselves.
etc.

"Luck" is when preparation and opportunity meet. Far too many people never prepare themselves, nor do they know how to recognize and take advantage of an opportunity.

Success requires long term planning. This is the part that I think most people do not get. You do not just wake up one day and say I am going to be a 1%er or "successful". You have to literally sit down and plan it out. I'm a 1%er. I have a lot of friends who are 1%ers to multi-millionaires. Not a single one of them was handed anything. They had to take time to figure out where they wanted to go and make the right decisions to get there over decades.

I came from modest background. Dad was a cop and mom a secretary. Neither graduated college. I literally can lay out the exact road map I followed which allowed me to make six figures by 26 years old. It was not that difficult. I laid out the plan in high school and followed it through.

On the other hand, I had friends who were born with every imaginable advantage in life and completely squandered every opportunity presented to them with short term thinking and lack of preparation.

We all make choices in life. Some choices will turn out to be wildly successful for you and other choices will set you back years. Everyone I know who would be considered successful knows how to not only think long-term but also make adjustments if even their best laid plans don't work out in their favor.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: onequestion

Not many, like the US Norway is in a relatively secure position geographically. They have few land borders and an ocean to protect them.

The Nazis took them out in less than a month. By sea and air With the Royal Navy in the way.

Their real advantage is not getting involved in every crackpot imperial police action led by the US.

They know where they stand - in the shadow of the EU - and it works for them. They don't need to bomb developing nations to make themselves feel better.

Mind you, their music is awful.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: lordcomac

I think the arts are an important part of our culture and I would hate to live in an artless world.

So one needs to go to college for 4 years to learn how to be an artist? Instead of paying college, buy some arts supply for the next 4 years then with the $100,000 left go travel.

instead of paying for college, work some local theaters and learn your craft.

originally posted by: thinline
instead of paying for college, work some local theaters and learn your craft.

That is the worst possible way to build a portfolio because it lacks proper critique.

I agree it's harder now but it's not impossible.

I still insist that Entrepreneurship is the way. Start your own side business and grow it into a real business. That's what I'm doing, I'll let you guys know how it works. So far so good, but I'm not Rich yet.

a reply to: onequestion

America hasn't been a Meritocracy for quite some time.

That being said - I really don't care about the success or plight of others; and I would prefer to maintain the Status Quo. I'm on top. Someone always has to be on top.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Azureblue

I agree I see complete randomness.

Almost a luck or destiny involved.

Almost a luck or destiny Very perceptive.

I am a big believer that while we all can influence the course of our lives to some extent, we set the basic course of our lives before we are born. When we are born we also born with the circumstances, tools, the inclination, the talent, the abilities etc we need to learn the lessons we set ourselves.
etc.

"Luck" is when preparation and opportunity meet. Far too many people never prepare themselves, nor do they know how to recognize and take advantage of an opportunity.

Success requires long term planning. This is the part that I think most people do not get. You do not just wake up one day and say I am going to be a 1%er or "successful". You have to literally sit down and plan it out. I'm a 1%er. I have a lot of friends who are 1%ers to multi-millionaires. Not a single one of them was handed anything. They had to take time to figure out where they wanted to go and make the right decisions to get there over decades.

I came from modest background. Dad was a cop and mom a secretary. Neither graduated college. I literally can lay out the exact road map I followed which allowed me to make six figures by 26 years old. It was not that difficult. I laid out the plan in high school and followed it through.

On the other hand, I had friends who were born with every imaginable advantage in life and completely squandered every opportunity presented to them with short term thinking and lack of preparation.

We all make choices in life. Some choices will turn out to be wildly successful for you and other choices will set you back years. Everyone I know who would be considered successful knows how to not only think long-term but also make adjustments if even their best laid plans don't work out in their favor.

I would be grateful if you could show me your plan, how you arrived at it, and how you executed it. Did you include timelines etc. I'd love to know for the sake of learning and to put it in my memory banks for a future life. (its a bit too late for this life now as I now suffer from A.G.E.

thanks

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Azureblue
. I think ego accounts for many perspectives.

I totally agree about how your brown into a set of circumstances

Our environment provides us with a specific set of variables and I do think we can influence those variables especially as time goes but think about it...

We can't escape earth, the earth is an environmental variables we are born with and have to contend with.

But we can change it and make it better.

thank you for your reply and perspective.

thanks

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Azureblue

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: Azureblue

I agree I see complete randomness.

Almost a luck or destiny involved.

Almost a luck or destiny Very perceptive.

I am a big believer that while we all can influence the course of our lives to some extent, we set the basic course of our lives before we are born. When we are born we also born with the circumstances, tools, the inclination, the talent, the abilities etc we need to learn the lessons we set ourselves.
etc.

"Luck" is when preparation and opportunity meet. Far too many people never prepare themselves, nor do they know how to recognize and take advantage of an opportunity.

Success requires long term planning. This is the part that I think most people do not get. You do not just wake up one day and say I am going to be a 1%er or "successful". You have to literally sit down and plan it out. I'm a 1%er. I have a lot of friends who are 1%ers to multi-millionaires. Not a single one of them was handed anything. They had to take time to figure out where they wanted to go and make the right decisions to get there over decades.

I came from modest background. Dad was a cop and mom a secretary. Neither graduated college. I literally can lay out the exact road map I followed which allowed me to make six figures by 26 years old. It was not that difficult. I laid out the plan in high school and followed it through.

On the other hand, I had friends who were born with every imaginable advantage in life and completely squandered every opportunity presented to them with short term thinking and lack of preparation.

We all make choices in life. Some choices will turn out to be wildly successful for you and other choices will set you back years. Everyone I know who would be considered successful knows how to not only think long-term but also make adjustments if even their best laid plans don't work out in their favor.

I would be grateful if you could show me your plan, how you arrived at it, and how you executed it. Did you include timelines etc. I'd love to know for the sake of learning and to put it in my memory banks for a future life. (its a bit too late for this life now as I now suffer from A.G.E.

thanks

The first thing I figured out was that grades matter. My first year of high school I got a 1.0 GPA. I had the smarts, but I didn't have the discipline (another topic). Long story short, I missed some opportunities because of my grades freshman year. It pissed me off but taught me that grades are important. I'm also black and was attending a wealthy white school. I got to see what the kids of the 1%er's were doing. There is truth to the statement of rich people doing things that make them rich and poor people doing things that keep them poor. So I got focused and managed to graduate high school with honors and even taking AP classes which actually meant something back then as most schools didn't offer them.

I didn't go to college thinking it was about finding myself and all that liberal BS. I knew I was going to college to get myself a job I couldn't otherwise get. My parents couldn't afford for me to screw around. I knew I wanted to go into business, maybe Wall Street or some other type of analytical / finance business field. I looked at some the seniors at my college who managed to get job offers from top companies like Goldman Sachs, McKinsey & Co, etc did while they were in school and just followed their footsteps. Majored in business and got good grades. However, what was important was really getting good internships while in college. The first summer, I ran my own business. The second summer, I worked for FREE (less than minimum wage for all you whiners) at a non-profit business organization just so I could build my resume. The third summer, I scored a plum investment banking internship. The culmination of those three summers, plus my major, plus the good grades... not to mention the hours and hours of interview preparation led me to getting a great job offers right out of college.

I chose to work at a major consulting firm. It paid basically $65k in 2015 dollars. Instead of blowing the money, I basically lived at home so I could save. The job also required a ton of hours (80 hour weeks were pretty normal). I looked at it like intensive boot camp training. I was there to learn. however, the main reason I took the job is that I knew I wanted an MBA from a top school. This firm feeds into the very best schools and not only that, they'd pay for you to go full time after two or three years. You just had to agree to work another 2 years after graduation. This is what I mean about thinking long term. I was looking two or three steps ahead in every decision to see how it would help me get to my goals. I did well on the job, the firm paid for me to go to one of the best schools business in world. I graduated and returned to work with a promotion... making $160k/yr in 2015 dollars at 27 years old.

It wasn't that difficult. It just required me seeing a goal and then laying out the steps to get there. Like I said, it sometimes takes years to implement a plan. You have to make some sacrifices and just stay focused on where you are trying to get.

A lot of my friends couldn't / can't see past the upcoming weekend, so they are like a rudderless boat. They just go with the current and really have no control over their lives.

originally posted by: onequestion
a reply to: burdman30ott6

I don't think there exist a worthless degree I think we need cultural evolution as much as anything.

No one wants to live in a stale artless society which is what your advocating.

What else do people do without an education or a trade job? You do realize trade jobs are already stressed with applicants in most states right?

Why do people need to go to school for Art?? Isn't it supposed to come from artists? Artists are born this way, no Learning is gonna make someone an artist. You don't need school for art.

a reply to: Edumakated

What years were this roughly? You mention unpaid internships, which really started in the financial sector in I think the 90's but they're the standard these days, I've done two of them even and have another coming up (not in finance). Actually the standard these days are that you pay the company to take you as an intern (and usually you pay your school for the opportunity as well), so unpaid internships are the lucky ones. I also know that since the financial crisis the number of companies that will pay for you to get a degree have been cut back significantly, though some companies will still pay for individual classes (again, this is most common for business classes, most other professions expect you to cover school yourself).

I also take issue with it because of the fact that not everyone can handle full time school plus a full time job, it's really a crap shoot of who your instructors are, what they expect, and natural limitations... some people just can't do that much, but it doesn't mean they should be barred from success.

Last, I find it a bit insulting that you claim poor people don't have a plan. The economics of being poor work much different. Most poor people have to plan things on 5 to 10 year increments. If your car suddenly gives out, it's pretty disastrous unless you've been planning for it. Education is similar, I have never once in my life met a poor person who didn't have a plan for self improvement. The difference between them and you is the opportunity to execute your plan came along while for someone else it didn't.

originally posted by: bigwig22
Why do people need to go to school for Art?? Isn't it supposed to come from artists? Artists are born this way, no Learning is gonna make someone an artist. You don't need school for art.

This isn't true at all. Art requires a lot of practice. A person can have a natural affinity for drawing, or color balance, or anything else but it's a difficult subject to learn and requires lots of practice. At any decent school an art degree is among the toughest degree's available but they're also very lucrative if you work at the right places after graduation.

'hard work' is open to interpretation. and the rewards it may realize often seem inversely proportionate.

- i would ask the multi-millionaire/billionaire entrepeneur/celeb/old money lineage types one question;

how much is enough?

the obsessive accumulation of wealth, specifically the urge to continue in such a manner, forever, is troubling to me.