The Rich and the Rest

a reply to: Edumakated

Why don't you actually read the article and address individual points and offer solutions yourself instead of simply propagating your overly used one liners that we've all read 100 times and participate in a discussion like everyone else?

a reply to: Aazadan

There is no social ideological (realistic) structure that would make everyone "winners" and no one "losers".

There will always be those that want more, work harder, and have more.

originally posted by: GodEmperor
a reply to: burdman30ott6

Sounds good, until someone gets M.A.D.

Nobody wins in the next big one. Guaranteed.

We all survive together or perish together
The path humanity is on is not working

My buddy is a CNC operator and he was trained on the job. I learned a little about CNC myself and I ran a CMM for a short while. Collage wasn't always needed to make good money. I started out in the auto industry after high school. Times were good back in the late 90's. Jobs were plentiful and anyone with basic math skills could find a job and work their way up. Companies invested in their employees and offered advancement from within.

My grandparents worked at these companies and so did the rest of my family. I don't know what kind of CNC opportunities there are elsewhere in the country but in Michigan the trade was in high demand. There were tool and die shops on every corner. CNC operators started out at $18 an hour. My buddy makes $25 an hour running a CNC.

In the early 2000's businesses started closing up. I watched entire industrial complexes disappear over night. Some of these companies had been around since the 1950's. I knew a lot of people that ended up on foodstamps. My uncle ran CNC and he refused to work for minimum wage.

I have a younger buddy who graduated top of his class. He couldn't go to collage he had to take a job at Walmart because thats all he could get. His mother had cancer and he had to support her and his brother that was still in school. He had no gas or heat the entire winter. They huddled in the living room for heat that winter. Sometimes he had to walk 4 miles home after work because he couldn't get a ride. His dinner was a can or corn. After his mother died I took him in. I'm barely serving myself. He's 25 and don't even have a drivers license. He can't afford a car so there's really no point in getting one. He's trapped at a dead end job with no future. Collage is a joke he has no chance of going.

There are the haves and the have nots in this country. Not everyone has the same opportunities and for some there is no way out.

Between my buddy and his friends there are a lot of discontent and disenfranchised young people in this country. They have no chance at a decent future or ever retiring. I know some people that are one step away from all out class warfare.

a reply to: Aazadan

I'm not going to argue opinions.

That said, that statistic is ABSOLUTELY NOT misunderstood and it has NOTHING to do with government jobs except for those on government jobs who fall below the cutoff line for the negative net taxes threshold.

a reply to: onequestion

You repeatedly said you are trying "solve problems" but you have yet to offer any suggestions.

I hear your complaints but you have yet to offer a solution.

I don't pretend to offer solutions but I have given advice to individuals that seek to improve their lot in life.

Beyond making complaints, what have you proposed? What is it you have done for the "greater good"?

a reply to: onequestion

I don't think there exist a worthless degree I think we need cultural evolution as much as anything.

Are you really sure about that? Imagine your tax dollars going to pay for someone to get one of these.

www.toptenz.net...

David Beckham studies - You actually get a degree for studying David Beckham.

Doctorate of Philosophy in Ufology

The Phallus

Surfing Studies

Queer Musicology

Star Trek

There are many useless degrees being handed out to idiots who think they can earn a living, doing what no one wants or needs doing.

originally posted by: wantsome


Between my buddy and his friends there are a lot of discontent and disenfranchised young people in this country. They have no chance at a decent future or ever retiring. I know some people that are one step away from all out class warfare.

I have seen this same type of story repeated over and over across this country and it is getting worse everyday
It is not reported in the corporate media either.

a reply to: wantsome

They don't work hard enough that's the problem.

a reply to: eluryh22

Here you go discussing nothing substance again.

Try addressing the Op and refuting individual points.

Use a few quotes.

If you can't do that then the discussion with you is over.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

There is no social ideological (realistic) structure that would make everyone "winners" and no one "losers".

There will always be those that want more, work harder, and have more.

Unless you're arguing that second place is the first loser, and by that metric we're all losers, it's possible to create a system in which everyone has enough to get by. I would call that everyone winning.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Aazadan

I'm not going to argue opinions.

That said, that statistic is ABSOLUTELY NOT misunderstood and it has NOTHING to do with government jobs except for those on government jobs who fall below the cutoff line for the negative net taxes threshold.

The CBO disagrees.

www.cbo.gov...

In particular, note slide 12.

a reply to: Aazadan

Has that ever happened?

originally posted by: eluryh22
a reply to: Metallicus

I told my daughter I would help her with college if she had a plan. That is the ONLY reason to go to college. Have a plan to get an in-demand degree a then execute that plan. Otherwise you are throwing away 100k or whatever for nothing.

I've noticed many of your posts on the general topic of your daughter, her college choices and your guidance.

Our son is about a decade and a half away from that stage but I have to say I feel as though I'm peering into the future.

Not that you need some random stranger on the interwebz to tell you this... but I'll say it anyway.... Good form, Metallicus! Good form indeed!!!

Thank you for your kind words.

I am trying to remember all the things that stressed me when I was her age and removing those obstables. One thing I can say for sure is having a plan and executing that plan was integral to where I am today and I am trying to teach her to make logical decisions when it comes to providing for herself and what will hopefully one day be her family.

Having financial security makes it so you can do what is important to you in life and if I hadn't done things I didn't want to when I was younger I wouldn't be doing things I do want to do now.

I think many young people skip the step where you have to put some planning and effort into providing for yourself down the road and don't realize that people that seem happy now had to do some things that weren't always fun to get to that point in their life.

a reply to: DAVID64

Do you have any statistics on how many people pursue those degrees? From what I've seen, there's been a huge decline in less marketable degrees over the past several years.

Onequestion,

I wanted to say that I really appreciate your posts. You provide alternate perspectives to my own in ways that don't seem threatening or accusatory. You are a great member even if I don't always agree with you. You create quality discussion and make ATS a better place.

Thank you my ATS friend!

a reply to: Aazadan

Huh? Slide 12 has nothing to do with where earnings came from and 100% agrees with the 45% state. You do understand a quintile is 1/5, or 20%, right? The entirety of the two l wests quintiles RELIEVE MORE IN REBATES AND KICKBACKS than they pay in income taxes, i.e. negative net taxes. The remaining 5% come from the 3rd quintile. 45% of America is leeching of the rest of us...

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Aazadan

Has that ever happened?

Yes. Norway has such a system right now. There are other ways to go about it than they have though.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Aazadan

Huh? Slide 12 has nothing to do with where earnings came from and 100% agrees with the 45% state. You do understand a quintile is 1/5, or 20%, right? The entirety of the two l wests quintiles RELIEVE MORE IN REBATES AND KICKBACKS than they pay in income taxes, i.e. negative net taxes. The remaining 5% come from the 3rd quintile. 45% of America is leeching of the rest of us...

That's one way to look at it I suppose, the other way to look at the graph is that people above the halfway mark in the second quintile are paying in more than they're receiving, and it's the others bringing it down.

When I look at it, what I see is on page 3 where the top quintile has a higher after tax income than before tax income, yet everyone else has less money.

originally posted by: Metallicus
Onequestion,

I wanted to say that I really appreciate your posts. You provide alternate perspectives to my own in ways that don't seem threatening or accusatory. You are a great member even if I don't always agree with you. You create quality discussion and make ATS a better place.

Thank you my ATS friend!

I appreciate it man and thanks for you input?

Disagreeing can be fun if done in a way that's productive!